hzink@pro-nucleus.UUCP (Harry Zink) (05/24/89)
Network Comment: to #948 by pnet01!crash!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!obsolete!nazgul
I think that a clarification is in order. When the infamous $2.00 product was
mentioned, I am pretty sure that the author did not simply refer to the
production costs, but to the overall value of the program itself. Let's face
it, there are programs out there where the publisher charges $45 and more, but
it is hardly worth the materials it is reproduced on. That, I believe, is the
shaft spoken of, and in this kind of situation I can sympathize with piracy
for the sole point of EVALUATING the package. Once you have decided it is
trash you can either delete it, or store it in a dark place to show to others
if they harbor any desire to buy the same package (Precisely waht I used to do
with 'Gauntlet GS' and 'Paperboy GS').
I would like to ask the fervent defenders of law and order (said with a
smile), what do they propose for the various situations outlined by various
international and domestic members of this newsgroup. Specifically, please
address the issue of scarce to non-existing software availability in foreign
countries (France, Germany, Sweden); the issue of software previews through
piracy; the matter of 'trash' software (remember, most software CAN NOT be
returned once purchased - only returned for exchange or credit. So, if you
purchase a piece of software and it turns out to be trash, you are still out
of the money in most cases - and demo disks always only show the best of the
programs...)
I mean, we all know that you consider piracy (or whatever you want to call it)
to be the 'most heinous' (to quote Bill & Ted) activity under the sky - but I
fail to see any constructive remarks towards alleviating the problems outlined
above.
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+nazgul@obsolete.UUCP (Kee Hinckley) (05/25/89)
Network Comment: to #948 by pnet01!crash!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!obsolete!nazgul
I think that a clarification is in order. When the infamous $2.00 product was
mentioned, I am pretty sure that the author did not simply refer to the
production costs, but to the overall value of the program itself. Let's face
Quite. I can't say I would consider a $2.00 program worth stealing either.
I would like to ask the fervent defenders of law and order (said with a
smile), what do they propose for the various situations outlined by various
international and domestic members of this newsgroup. Specifically, please
That's a _real_ problem. Again, I don't think the answer is pirating.
The problem here is two fold. First, if you thought it was expensive
to sell software domesticly, it's even worse to try and export it. You
might think that places like Programs Plus and the like might do it, but
a lot of the programs which *are* available outside of the US are not the
same version as those internal. Some of the programs you buy are explicitly
not for resale outside of the US and Canada because there is a different
distributor in Europe handling the sale.
I think there are probably two things that can be done in this case, one
short term, one long term. The short term case is to write a letter to
the software publisher in question, explaining the problem and requesting
a copy of the software (perhaps enclosing a money order or BarclayCard
number or some such, or just asking what the price would be). The question
then becomes whether the publisher can legally export it without going
through all kinds of rigamarole - or whether they'll just ignore that
and ship it off (I know I would). The second one is to lobby your government
to stop putting restrictions on, or better yet, to make it easier to get,
imported software. At least in Europe I suspect that that the Common Market
will make this whole situation much easier, since as a publisher I only have
to deal with one set of import rules, and I can deal with one redistributor,
instead of one per country.
No law or moral is every cut and dry. The problem with rules is that
to be properly applied someone has to make exceptions sometimes, the
problem with that is *who* gets to decide on the exceptions.
I really didn't intend to come across as a law and order type. I have
very mixed feelings on this subject and didn't really want to get
involved in the discussion at all! On the one hand I have strong
feelings towards the philosophy that "if you don't need it, and thus
wouldn't have bought it if that were the only option, it's okay to steal
it". On the other hand I make my living in the software business
and have no desire to see things I write walking off by themselves.
-kee
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-------tmurphy@wpi.wpi.edu (Tom [Chris] Murphy) (05/25/89)
In article <8905240736.AA18683@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-sol!pro-nucleus!hzink@nosc.mil writes: >international and domestic members of this newsgroup. Specifically, please >address the issue of scarce to non-existing software availability in foreign >countries (France, Germany, Sweden); the issue of software previews through >piracy; the matter of 'trash' software (remember, most software CAN NOT be >returned once purchased - only returned for exchange or credit. So, if you >purchase a piece of software and it turns out to be trash, you are still out >of the money in most cases - and demo disks always only show the best of the >programs...) I don't see any ethical problem about using a copy of a program for evaluation purposes, assuming that everyone is honest enough to destroy the copy when finished. However, the idea of crippled programs (such as Microsoft's Excel demo) is a better idea. The program is freely copyable, has all the features of the original except for a limited spreadsheet size. As far as the limited availability problem, well it's too bad but not any excuse for theift. There are lots of things I'd like but can't get access to or afford, but I don't have any right to steal them. Tom -- Thomas C. Murphy Worcester Polytechnic Institute CAD Lab Internet: tmurphy@zaphod.wpi.edu tmurphy@wpi.wpi.edu BITNET: TMURPHY@WPI BIX: tmurphy CompuServe: 73766,130 -- Guns don't kill people, people kill people - with guns. --