jim@pro-nebulous.UUCP (Jim Goddard) (05/18/89)
I have a quick question about GSOS. Maybe I have missed earlier conversations
on this topic, but I have only had a GS about 6 months so bear with me.
Why is it necissary for the GS to load Desk accessories into memory? Not only
does this slow down the boot process dramatically but it also takse up
valuable memory. I have a meg and a quarter like most everyone and had been
able to find things I couldn't do because of memory limitations when I had one
DA. Now I have about 5 and it is a major cutback on available memory.
This just seems to be an idiotic waste. Can anyone come up with a logical
reason why the DA's can't be loaded only when they are needed and one at a
time?????
____________________________________________________________________
/ | /
| Jim Goddard | The mind commands the body and |
| Snail: 1189 Forest Brook Ct. | it obeys. The mind orders |
| mail: Marietta, Ga. 30068 | itself and meets resistance. |
|_______________________________| - Isaac Asimov |
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| ALPE: NW Man Delphi: JGODDARD |
/___________________________________________________________________/blochowi@cat28.CS.WISC.EDU (Jason Blochowiak) (05/23/89)
In article <8905220016.AA08754@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-avalon!pro-nebulous!jim@nosc.mil writes: > [...] >Why is it necessary for the GS to load Desk accessories into memory? >This just seems to be an idiotic waste. Can anyone come up with a logical >reason why the DA's can't be loaded only when they are needed and one at a >time????? No... There are programs (including an NDA, I believe) out there that let you load a DA into memory whenever you want to. As someone else pointed out, you have a number of other options as well. I'm not real familiar with any of the programs to load a DA in after a boot, but that's because I wrote a shell utility to do just that (makes debugging a DA much easier!). > Jim Goddard > [Rest of disgustingly large .signature deleted] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jason Blochowiak (blochowi@garfield.cs.wisc.edu) "It beats working" - Harrison Ford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wombat@claris.com (Scott Lindsey) (05/23/89)
From article <2822@puff.cs.wisc.edu>, by blochowi@cat28.CS.WISC.EDU (Jason Blochowiak): > In article <8905220016.AA08754@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-avalon!pro-nebulous!jim@nosc.mil writes: >> [...] >>Why is it necessary for the GS to load Desk accessories into memory? >> [...] > No... There are programs (including an NDA, I believe) out there that > let you load a DA into memory whenever you want to. As someone else pointed > out, you have a number of other options as well. I'm not real familiar with > any of the programs to load a DA in after a boot, but that's because I wrote > a shell utility to do just that (makes debugging a DA much easier!). Then there's some DA's out there written with this problem/situation in mind: with dynamic segments. Yeah, they take up some memory, but not nearly as much as without dynamic segments. This has to be done, obviously, on the programmer's end. -- Scott Lindsey |"Cold and misty morning. I heard a warning borne in the air Claris Corp. | About an age of power when no one had an hour to spare" ames!claris!wombat| DISCLAIMER: These are not the opinions of Claris, Apple, wombat@claris.com | StyleWare, the author, or anyone else living or dead.
cs472226@umbc5.umbc.edu (David Wood (CS472226)) (05/23/89)
In article <8905220016.AA08754@crash.cts.com>, pnet01!pro-avalon!pro-nebulous!jim@nosc.mil writes: >Why is it necissary for the GS to load Desk accessories into memory? Not only >does this slow down the boot process dramatically but it also takse up >valuable memory. I have a meg and a quarter like most everyone and had been >able to find things I couldn't do because of memory limitations when I had one >DA. Now I have about 5 and it is a major cutback on available memory. > >This just seems to be an idiotic waste. Can anyone come up with a logical >reason why the DA's can't be loaded only when they are needed and one at a >time????? You must have quite a collection of desk accessories. Have you considered donating copies to the Smithsonian? Anyway, the point of a desk accessory as I see it is to have a utility or small program in memory so you can start it up as soon as you need it, without having to swap in disks or wait for the sucka to load. If loading time and memory are such problems, you should consider what accessories you have on there now. Do you REALLY need that cute little accessory that draws the contents of a window upside-down and backwards, or that one that reads the outside temperature? Put your disk on a DA diet, and in no time, it'll be fit, trim, and kickstarting right into the Finder. On the other hand, if there's a whole bunch on there that you just can't live with, then there is a DA called "Acc.Chooser" which will load your choice of either Classic or New DAs on command. It sounds like you need something like that. I'm sure someone on PROLine knows about it; ask around. And speaking of PROLine... Is source available for it? I'm considering writing for Steve Jackson Games, and they require their material in (ecch) IBM-compatible format. While I'm word munching on the IBM, I could use the GS as a BBS. However, I'd want to customize it; nobody in the local area (Baltimore) is on PROLine that I know of... -David Wood ************************************************************************ * A Mind is a Terrible Thing *** Attention: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE * * to have Oozing out *** PUMPKINIZATION DATE OF THIS ACCOUNT * * your ears... ******************************************* * -- The League of *** This account vaporizes on Friday, * * Sadistic *** MAY 26! Conventional mail address is: * * Telepaths *** 7 SYCAMORE CT. GRASONVILLE, MD 21638 * ************************************************************************
edward@pro-harvest.UUCP (Edward Floden) (05/23/89)
Network Comment: to #1065 by pnet01!crash!trout.nosc.mil!pnet01!pro-nebulous!jim CDAs can be loaded to or unloaded from memory at any time. At AppleFest Boston, I picked up the "360 Desk Extender", from 360 MicroSystems, which does just that. The Desk Extender looks a little like Glen Bredon's Master CDA, where you may place up to 12 CDAs into a "Master" CDA, thus freeing entries on the main Desk Accessories menu. The Desk Extender can have up to 12 "nodes" (master CDAs), each containing up to 56 CDAs. The CDAs within a node can be configured to automatically load at boot, or can be loaded into memory only when actually needed, and can be removed from memory at any time. Just to check if the 'remove from memory' option worked, I removed -all- of my loaded CDAs (that were within an Extender node), and I regained 47K of free memory. The maximum block of memory available did not change, but the total free memory increased. (I checked the memory stats using Floyd Zink's Memory NDA.) The price of the 360 Desk Extender was $21 at AppleFest; I believe that the SRP is $29.95. (360 MicroSystems, PO Box 1192, Oviedo, FL 32765. Sorry, I don't have a current phone number.) ProLine: edward@pro-harvest | pro-harvest +1 312 253 8239 UUCP: crash!pro-harvest!edward | 24 hour operation ARPA: crash!pro-harvest!edward@nosc.mil | 300/1200/2400 bps InterNet: edward@pro-harvest.cts.com | Online since 1 April 1989
dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (05/24/89)
In article <8905220016.AA08754@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-avalon!pro-nebulous!jim@nosc.mil writes: >This just seems to be an idiotic waste. Can anyone come up with a logical >reason why the DA's can't be loaded only when they are needed and one at a >time????? Gee, you only use one DA at a time? I often use several. Anyway, the system just InitialLoad-s all the DAs. This doesn't necessarily mean that all of their code is in memory (as Scott Lindsey already pointed out). The DAs are free to use dynamic segments so that parts (perhaps almost all) their code stays on disk until it's actually needed. Note that CDAs that need to work under ProDOS 8 don't have the option of using dynamic segments (the Loader isn't present while ProDOS 8 is active). --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS | P.O. Box 875 AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
bbean@pro-sat.cts.com (Bruce Bean) (05/29/89)
Network Comment: to #9063 by pnet01!crash!trout.nosc.mil!pnet01!pro-nebulous!jim
THERE HAPPENS TO BE A NDA THAT DOES LOAD DA'S ONLY WHEN NEEDED. CARPETBAG IS
AVALIBLE ON APPLE2L. HOPE THAT HELPS. :^)
~~BBEAN