V133JR65@UBVMSC.CC.BUFFALO.EDU ("J.WIXSON") (06/02/89)
Ok....since a few of you seem to be so interested in Apple pirating let me clear up a few rumors for you. Before I start, let me tell you my background in pirating on the Apple. I got into pirating a few years ago when the most advanced modem for the Apple was the Apple Cat (103/202, 212)...remember those?? If you were into pirating back then you would remember all those Cat-fur bases and stuff like that....this was when 10 megs was considered TONS of space. Anyway, I have run two pirating systems on the Apple //e....both were really pretty popular and I had callers from almost every state. My second board was 2400,\ but my first was a CF when the Applecat was still popular. Anyway, for the most part the sysops do NOT MAKE money on these systems. At the most a sysop will break even with his original cost of a hard drive (lately pirated //e programs have been up to 8 sides) because you need space plus the cost of a high speed modem and usually a Thunderclock and extended RAM. This is usually made up thru a ONE time fee when a person becomes a member of your system. I didn't even come close to what I invested in my system, however it was worth it because I received tons of free programs (many before they were even released in stores), was able to talk free of charge to elite user/hackers all over the US and gained invaluable experience in programing and system design. If you know anything about Apple pirating you will recognize the names Coast to Coast, Digital Gang etc...all group names. These groups are made up of very elite programers that spend their time cracking these programs. No real pirate sells these, but they compete (between groups) to release a program first on a bulletin board. Each group usually has a board which sponsers and the program is first uploaded to this system and then other users quickly distribute it all \ around the US. Now Apple games are way over priced and I wouldn't have paid for any ONE of them in the last 3 years. In fact, most elite Apple hackers and pirates have long switched to better comps, such as the GS, IBM or Amiga. This is one of the reasons I no longer run my system as well as the fact that I have better things to use my computer for. For obvious reasons I'm not going to name individuals, but I knew many of the best crackers on the //e, not one every made a dollar from it. Most simply worked in software warehouses and had access to the programs free of charge. Rumors that programs are stolen are simply not true. I hope I've shed some light on the subject to the few people \that seemed interested.
hzink@pro-nucleus.cts.com (Harry Zink) (06/04/89)
Network Comment: to #1260 by pnet01!crash!ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu!V133JR65 Well, about a previous message that denounced the rumors of actual software theft as untrue, I have to bring up a painful fact. Some pirate groups do engage in software theft to acquire the 'crackable' original. As sad as it is, it is nevertheless true. On the other hand, none of the individuals I know has ever made any money form it either. A case in point for the software theft would be each and every applefest. The first applefest was pretty nasty, as new releases were wiped left and right. Nowadyas it seems that vendor are smratening up, and running their demos from hard drives or RAM. Anyway, the two applefests I went to, software thefts were rampant amongst some of the pirates and groups I met there. I do not condone such actions, and I will also not try to rationalize them. You can't. That is actual theft, pure and simple (very much like the Jewel thieves Dave Lyons used analogically). Anyway, this just to set some facts straight. /s |UUCP: crash!pro-nucleus!hzink |Pro-Line: hzink@pro-nucleus | |ARPA: crash!pro-nucleus!hzink@nosc.mil |Internet: hzink@pro-nucleus.cts.com| +---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |"They're just questions Leon... | | In answer to your query, they're written down for me." -Blade Runner |
shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (06/04/89)
V133JR65@UBVMSC.CC.BUFFALO.EDU ("J.WIXSON") writes: >Anyway, for the >most part the sysops do NOT MAKE money on these systems. At the most a sysop >will break even with his original cost of a hard drive (lately pirated //e >programs have been up to 8 sides) because you need space plus the cost of a high speed modem and usually a Thunderclock and extended RAM. This is usually made up thru a ONE time fee when a person becomes a member of your system. I didn't >even come close to what I invested in my system, however it was worth it because I received tons of free programs (many before they were even released in stores), was able to talk free of charge to elite user/hackers all over the US and >gained invaluable experience in programing and system design. Not everyone uses an Apple II for pirating. But the pirate sysops that I know had their systems purchased by their parents, and they made enough money from the use of the system to expand the storage and buy other things. You might call it re-investment, but they were far from "in the hole". >I have better things to use my computer for. For obvious reasons I'm not >going to name individuals, but I knew many of the best crackers on the //e, not >one every made a dollar from it. Most simply worked in software warehouses and had access to the programs free of charge. Rumors that programs are stolen are >simply not true. I hope I've shed some light on the subject to the few people \that seemed interested. Far from it. If the programs weren't stolen, then why not name names if you don't think they've done anything wrong? I suppose if you believe that all software should be free, then they did nothing wrong, and neither did the people that accepted the software. However, keep in mind that even if people like you eventually make it impossible to make a buck on software development and all that's left is free software, you still get what you pay for. UUCP: {uunet!rosevax, amdahl!bungia, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com