Tabakal@UB.CC.UMICH.EDU (06/19/89)
First question is: Has anyone given a thought to Applied Ingenuity's
newest ad in the latest issue of A+/InCider. In my opinion, it's
a childish cheap shot at Applied Engineering. I have no interest in
AE other than the fact that they're one of the biggest forces for
innovation in Apple II-dom, but I'm somewhat annoyed that AI decided
to produce this ad. For those who haven't seen it, it ridicules AE
for producing an internal hard drive (ie Vulcan) which AI seems to
claim an exclusive market to. Even if I were in the market for that
product, I'd have to think twice about that company's attitude.
Question #2: goes out to people who have had problems with the AE
PCTransporter (myself included) and GS/OS 2.0 (on SD 4.0). Since
AE is now in the hard disk market, does anyone know if they've solved
their polling problems under SD 5.0? For the 3.5 as well as the 5.25?
It's bad enough that it constantly polls the 3.5, but I can't even use
it for 2:1 interleave disks currently.
And now on a different topic, did anyone write an AppleFest report this
time around? I'd love to see a copy even two months later...
-- Todd
p.s. 35.1.1.43 (PC5) will be up to date by July 4th weekend.
Just got the new Tech Notes today and hope to have them out
sometime later in the day.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd A. Bakal Remember: 1 Million people
U of M Apple User's Group saved Spock. Think about
Ann Arbor, Michigan what GS owners could do.
Internet: Tabakal@ub.cc.umich.edu FTP: 35.1.1.43
UUCP: ...!uunet!ub.cc.umich.edu!tabakal BITnet: Tabakal@UMICHUBhzink@pro-nucleus.UUCP (Harry Zink) (06/20/89)
Network Comment: to #1689 by Tabakal@UB.CC.UMICH.EDU Concerning the AI spoof of the AE Vulcan ad, I have to say that I was very amused. A lot of attention to detail has gone into the creation of this ad, and it is pretty much right on. let's not forget that AI had an internal drive for the GS way before AE even announced theirs, and that AE's drive looks *remarkably* similar to the AI product (no, there isn't just one way to make an internal hard drive). Except for being about $200 more expensive, I see no difference at all between the AI and the AE product. Personally, if I were in the market for an internal drive for my GS and I saw the two ads, I would definitely choose the AI product. Not because of the way their ad is styled, but simply based on a price performance ratio. Just because AE has been around forever and has been a big innovator doesn't mean that their products are the 'nec-plus-ultra' of apple products. In many instances their products are overpriced and underperforming. In others, they are innovative leaders. Let's just not get carried away and elevate them to god-dom (which they are not).
mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (06/20/89)
Network Comment: to #8834 by pnet01!crash!ub.cc.umich.edu!Tabakal Actually, I liked the AI ad... people have got to be able to take a JOKE.. where's your sense of humor.. lighten up a bit..
lbotez@pro-sol.cts.com (Lynda Botez) (06/21/89)
>First question is: Has anyone given a thought to Applied Ingenuity's >newest ad in the latest issue of A+/Incider? In my opinion, it's >a childish cheap shot at Applied Engineering. ... Well, I don't know about you, but I own an Inner Drive; I've had one for over 6 months. I was rather surprised to see the Vulcan prototype at Applefest. It looked IDENTICAL to the AI Inner Drive (even the shape was exactly the same)... except AE's case was black. There was a joke circulating that AE didn't even have a prototype (that it was in Inner Drive in disguise). Well, you can imagine that the folks at Applied Ingenuity weren't thrilled to death about Applied Engineering stealing their idea. After all, it is a rather nice drive; I really like mine. Actually, I think the ad is quite amusing. We need some laughs in this industry... everyone takes things too damn seriously. Lynda
prl3546@tahoma.UUCP (Philip R. Lindberg) (06/22/89)
From article <3195613@ub.cc.umich.edu>, by Tabakal@UB.CC.UMICH.EDU: > First question is: Has anyone given a thought to Applied Ingenuity's > newest ad in the latest issue of A+/InCider. In my opinion, it's > a childish cheap shot at Applied Engineering. > For those who haven't seen it, it ridicules AE for producing an internal > hard drive (ie Vulcan) which AI seems to claim an exclusive market to. I wouldn't take it so seriously. I got a great laugh out of it. A half a dozen of us sat down with both pictures looking for similarities and found their had tried very hard to make it an accurate "spoof". (Did you notice the "etch-a-sketch" on the shelf instead of the "o-scope" at AE?) I have a great deal of respect for AE products. In fact almost all of the cards I have in my GS were made by AE. But anybody who can't laugh at themselves, is taking life too seriously. (I doubt AE will be "up in arms" about it.) > Even if I were in the market for that product, I'd have to think twice > about that company's attitude. > -- Todd I am in the market for a hard drive, and I will purchase one based on the product, not their sence of humor. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | The Apple //'s will live forever!! | | Phil Lindberg snail mail: 13845 S.E. 131 ST | | INET: prl3546@tahoma.UUCP Renton, WA 98056 | | UUCP: ..!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!shuksan!tahoma!prl3546 | +---------------------------------------------------------+
paul@pro-europa.cts.com (Paul Hutmacher) (06/22/89)
Comment to message from: pnet01!crash!ub.cc.umich.edu!Tabakal (Unknown User) > First question is: Has anyone given a thought to Applied Ingenuity's > newest ad in the latest issue of A+/InCider. In my opinion, it's > a childish cheap shot at Applied Engineering. I have no interest in I don't know. I got a big kick out of it the third time I saw it. The first two times I glanced at it and thought it was an AE ad and the folks at Applied Engineering were finally going to loosen up a bit. After I saw it was a spoof on AE's Vulcan drive I really enjoyed it. ______________________________________________________________________________ paul@pro-europa.cts.com | "Open the pod bay door HAL" ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-europa!paul | "Sorry Dave, I can't do that"
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (06/24/89)
In article <8906200236.AA26408@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-sol!pro-nucleus!hzink@nosc.mil writes: >Network Comment: to #1689 by Tabakal@UB.CC.UMICH.EDU > >Concerning the AI spoof of the AE Vulcan ad, I have to say that I was very >amused. A lot of attention to detail has gone into the creation of this ad, >and it is pretty much right on. let's not forget that AI had an internal >drive for the GS way before AE even announced theirs, and that AE's drive >looks *remarkably* similar to the AI product (no, there isn't just one way to >make an internal hard drive). Except for being about $200 more expensive, I >see no difference at all between the AI and the AE product. Well, one difference is that the Vulcan drive can read Dos 3.3 plus Pascal 1.3 and CP/M and I think something else, while the InnerDrive can only read ProDOS (and GS/OS). Dos 3.3 (the only one of the extra ones I'm really interested in) isn't worth $200 more to me...But it probably would be worth $50 more to me, when I eventually buy a hard drive. Are both the InnerDrive and the Vulcan drive only sold through the manu- facturer? I've not seen either in mail order ads, but it's too early for the Vulcan one probably. unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (06/25/89)
>their had tried very hard to make it an accurate "spoof". (Did you notice >the "etch-a-sketch" on the shelf instead of the "o-scope" at AE?) How about the 'A+ R.I.P'? Also: Elvira instead of MM? Timing the 'Vulcan' with an hour-glass (is that too subtle)? >I am in the market for a hard drive, and I will purchase one based on the >product, not their sence of humor. What about price? The 20 & 40 Mbyte Vulcan's cost $150 more than the Applied Ingenuity drives of the same size. What technical advantages does the Vulcan offer for the extra $$$? Murph Sewall Vaporware? ---> [Gary Larson returns 1/1/90] Prof. of Marketing Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET Business School sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu [INTERNET] U of Connecticut {psuvax1 or mcvax }!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL [UUCP] (203) 486-5246 [FAX] (203) 486-2489 [PHONE] 41 49N 72 15W [ICBM] -+- I don't speak for my employer, though I frequently wish that I could (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited)
bobl@pro-graphics.UUCP (Bob Lindabury) (06/25/89)
Network Comment: to #186 by pnet01!crash!trout.nosc.mil!pnet01!pro-nucleus!hzink > Personally, if I were in the market for an internal drive for my GS and I saw > the two ads, I would definitely choose the AI product. Not because of the way >From my observations of the above mentioned ads, I find the AI ads to be cheaply produced. Even the old ads never left a very good taste in my mouth. Advertizing gives a potential buyer thier initial impression about a company. AI's advertizments being cheap and childish left me with a feeling that this is a company run by adolescents on a small budget. The photographs and production standards as well as the layouts are so cheap looking that I wonder if they even have the money to maintain a staff for customer support and service. I doubt it. Thier latest spoof on AE is just as cheap and childish as ever. Also, the ads always show the heads of the company doing something. Seems to me that these guys are on some sort of ego trip. I could care less about the president of a company climbing a rock-face!! I want to see the product..not this jerk! To be perfectly honest with you, I find that an internal HD for the //gs is a limiting device. Who cares if it's fast etc? I certainly don't. I would much rather have an external drive, one that I can use with another computer should the day or need arise. Making a device that is GS specific limits the usefullness of the product and I just couldn't see myself spending money for "less" of a product. Besides, I can build my own external SCSI drives for alot less than these people are selling thier internals for..AI or AE! --Bob _______________________________________________________________________________ UUCP: crash!pro-graphics!bobl | ProLine: bobl@pro-graphics InterNet: crash!bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com | CServe: 70347,2344 ARPA/DDN: crash!pro-graphics!bobl@nosc.mil | AppleLink: Graphics3D _______________________________________________________________________________
nudall@ndsuvax.UUCP (Brian Dall) (06/25/89)
I didn't get to see the ad mentioned above. Could someone please post the actual prices? Most postings just say that AE's prices are higher. Thanks, Brian Dall -- Brian Dall UUCP: uunet!ndsuvax!nudall Bitnet: nudall@ndsuvax
JerryK@cup.portal.com (Jerry E Kindall) (06/26/89)
The Vulcan drives are currently $150 more expensive than the InnerDrives, but if the past is any indication, Applied Engineering will soon let the mail-order companies at them, and you can expect the price differential to disappear. /\ Jerry Kindall JerryK@cup.portal.com \/ Death to COBOL GEnie: A2.JERRY ALink: A2 Jerry
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (06/26/89)
>>From my observations of the above mentioned ads, I find the AI ads to be >cheaply produced. Even the old ads never left a very good taste in my mouth. >Advertizing gives a potential buyer thier initial impression about a company. >AI's advertizments being cheap and childish left me with a feeling that this >is a company run by adolescents on a small budget. A novel suggestion: "Companies should charge higher prices so they can afford to run more respectable looking advertisements" :-) Before you light your flame, I DID twist what you said (attention getting huh), but the point is AI charges $150 less than AE for (apparently) equivalent hardware - the savings have to come from somewhere. 1 - fewer and cheaply produced ads. 2 - lower paid (and perhaps less classy) executives. 3 - less service and customer support. Neither 1 nor 2 should bother you much because they have no material impact on the utility of the product. Possiblity 3 is another matter IF it is true. Is the probable difference in support between the two companies worth $150 up front (that's a healthy percentage of the price of AI's 20 Mbyte unit)? In the absence of any other information (comparison of others' experiences with the two vendors, for example) which you buy from (assuming you want an internal at all) depends on how risk averse you are - gamblers will go with AI while the compulsively cautious will patronize AE. Murph Sewall Vaporware? ---> [Gary Larson returns 1/1/90] Prof. of Marketing Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET Business School sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu [INTERNET] U of Connecticut {psuvax1 or mcvax }!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL [UUCP] (203) 486-5246 [FAX] (203) 486-2489 [PHONE] 41 49N 72 15W [ICBM] -+- I don't speak for my employer, though I frequently wish that I could (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited)
jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") (06/27/89)
> *Excerpts from ext.in.info-apple: 25-Jun-89 Re: 2 questions re: Vulcan Jerry* > *E Kindall@ucbvax.b (338)* > The Vulcan drives are currently $150 more expensive than the InnerDrives, > but if the past is any indication, Applied Engineering will soon let the > mail-order companies at them, and you can expect the price differential > to disappear. > /\ Jerry Kindall JerryK@cup.portal.com > \/ Death to COBOL GEnie: A2.JERRY ALink: A2 Jerry Inner Drives can be bought thru several mail order houses, and they are consequently pretty cheap now. If everything goes well with the thing, I think I'm gonna buy one of the things. jeremy mereness ============= jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arpanet) r746jm7e@CMCCVB (vax.... Bitnet)
sysop@pro-generic.cts.com (Matthew Montano) (06/27/89)
Network Comment: to #2722 by pnet01!crash!trout.nosc.mil!pnet01!pro-graphics!bobl The advertisements show what AI really is! A company run out of a garage. They are irresponsible to a certain degree, by making fantasic claims about 9600bps modems for $300, and internal //c drives. I called AI once, as soon as they announced their first hard drives. They were just changed the mechanism they were using, changing there prices and shipping dates... just on a whim. I would definately buy the AE product, if it just a $100 or so more. Would you buy an asian clone of an Apple //e or a real Apple //e for just a few hundred more? ============================================================================== ProLine: sysop@pro-generic |DDN :crash!pnet01!pro-generic!sysop InterNet:sysop@pro-generic.cts.com|UUCP: hplabs!crash!pnet01!pro-generic!root OS/2 - does the 2 mean that they goofed the first time and are trying again? ==============================================================================
mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (06/28/89)
Network Comment: to #9050 by pnet01!crash!andrew.cmu.edu!jm7e+ I'm curious as to what Mail Order houses are carrying the InnerDrive I've only seen it sold direct.
dale@pro-colony.UUCP (System Operator) (06/28/89)
Network Comment: to #7368 by pnet01!crash!cunyvm.cuny.edu!SEWALL%UCONNVM.BITNET
One other reason for AI having lower prices is that they do not have any
dealers, as such, they do not have any dealer margins built into their prices.
Preferred Computing is selling the AE 20 meg for $519.00, the 40 meg for about
$649.00 and the 100 meg for around $1379.00.
Dale
uucp : crash!pnet01!pro-colony!dale pro-colony
arpa : crash!pnet01!pro-colony!dale@nosc.mil (214) 370-7056
proline: dale@pro-colony 3/12/2400 baud - 24 hrs buzz@tippy.uucp (06/28/89)
=>And now on a different topic, did anyone write an AppleFest report
=>this time around? I'd love to see a copy even two months later...
I'd like to see that report too. I gained access to the Net several
weeks after the Fest, so if there was one, I missed it. I'd appreciate
it if some one would mail me a copy, or post it if enough other people
are interested.
Thanks in Advance
[No snappy signature yet -- still working on it]shatara@memit.dec.com (Chris Shatara) (06/30/89)
In article <8906281019.AA11155@crash.cts.com>, mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) writes... >Network Comment: to #9050 by pnet01!crash!andrew.cmu.edu!jm7e+ > > >I'm curious as to what Mail Order houses are carrying the InnerDrive > >I've only seen it sold direct. Check the latest issue of A+/InCider. I noticed two mail order houses selling the InnerDrive 40Meg for $600 +/- a few bucks. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Shatara shatara@memit.dec.com --or-- ...!decwrl!memit.dec.com!shatara --or-- shatara%leddev.dec@decwrl.dec.com --------------------------------------------------------------------
KMILES@CC.USU.EDU ("Kurt Miles, VAX Consultant") (07/02/89)
Posting-Version: USU; site USU Subject: Re: 2 questions re: Vulcan >From: sysop@pro-generic.cts.com (Matthew Montano) > > The advertisements show what AI really is! A company run out of a garage. >They are irresponsible to a certain degree, by making fantasic claims about Seems to me that Apple started out in garage several years ago as well, making fantastic claims about personal computers and not needing a mainframe to work on a computer in the schools. Kurt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | GreyMan ------> and the <----- DRAGON Kurt Miles | KMILES@USU (Bitnet) | ..... remember, sometimes the DRAGON wins! KMILES@CC.USU.EDU (Internet) | ------ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
bobl@pro-graphics.UUCP (Bob Lindabury) (07/11/89)
Network Comment: to #357 by pnet01!crash!cunyvm.cuny.edu!SEWALL%UCONNVM.BITNET
In reply to Murph Sewall on the AI advertisements...
Wouldn't you know, there would have to be a Prof. of Marketing on this
newsfeed! B^)
Your points are well taken.
--Bob
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