2014_5001@uwovax.uwo.ca (06/16/89)
I saw an earlier posting re: manuals and had some questions of my own. I have the 65c02 upgrade and char. generating rom (half of the Apple //e -> //ee upgrade). I will be getting the CD-EF roms also, but would like some documentation about the changes. I currently have the //e Reference Manual Addendum - Monitor Rom Listings. Is there such a thing for the upgraded roms? Also, (totally new topic) I have Publish-It! that I use with a joystick (oh yuck...) since it seems to hang when I ask it to configure for a mouse. I have been unsuccesfully trying to find out why this is (presumably because I don't have the new Rom chips). Does anyone know what the problem would be, so that I could write a patch for it (if I end up not getting the new Roms)? Finally, (third totally new topic) does anyone out there in the wide wide Apple world have/use a PC-Transporter card? I would be very interesting in corresponding with you - especially if you have any low-level technical info about how drivers work, etc. (Applied Eng. seems reluctant to give out any info like this). Thanks, P.Surry@uwovax.bitnet (or mayhem@uwovax.bitnet).
userDBUG@ualtamts.BITNET (Dan Berry) (06/19/89)
In article <2328@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 2014_5001@uwovax.uwo.ca writes: >I saw an earlier posting re: manuals and had some questions >of my own. I have the 65c02 upgrade and char. generating >rom (half of the Apple //e -> //ee upgrade). I will be >getting the CD-EF roms also, but would like some documentation >... >Also, (totally new topic) I have Publish-It! that I use with >a joystick (oh yuck...) since it seems to hang when I ask it to >configure for a mouse. I have been unsuccesfully trying to >find out why this is (presumably because I don't have the new >Rom chips). Does anyone know what the problem would be, so that >I could write a patch for it (if I end up not getting the new >Roms)? > >Thanks, P.Surry@uwovax.bitnet (or mayhem@uwovax.bitnet). Well I don't normally flame people, but just what sort of help do you expect when you have pirated ROMs? And likely a pirated copy of PublishIt! to boot? Nonetheless, the problem is in your lack of ROMs, since PI! needs an enhanced //e to work right. I would highly doubt that it would be worth your effort to write a patch since it's easier to stoop to copying the ROMs. No one can say that pirating isn't alive and well among the Apple 8/16-bit enthusiasts... +-----------------------------------+ DAN BERRY ! "Violence is the last ! University of Alberta ! refuge of an incompetent." ! Computing Systems +-----------------------------------+ (Network and DataCom)
brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) (06/22/89)
In article <184@ualtamts.BITNET> userDBUG@ualtamts.BITNET (Dan Berry) writes: >In article <2328@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 2014_5001@uwovax.uwo.ca writes: >>I saw an earlier posting re: manuals and had some questions >>of my own. I have the 65c02 upgrade and char. generating >>rom (half of the Apple //e -> //ee upgrade). I will be >>getting the CD-EF roms also, but would like some documentation >> >>Thanks, P.Surry@uwovax.bitnet (or mayhem@uwovax.bitnet). > >Well I don't normally flame people, but just what sort of help >do you expect when you have pirated ROMs? And likely a pirated >copy of PublishIt! to boot? Nonetheless, the problem is in your >lack of ROMs, since PI! needs an enhanced //e to work right. I >would highly doubt that it would be worth your effort to write a >patch since it's easier to stoop to copying the ROMs. > >No one can say that pirating isn't alive and well among the >Apple 8/16-bit enthusiasts... > >+-----------------------------------+ DAN BERRY Wait a microsecond, Dan.... how can you feel justified in flaming this guy? His problem is that he does NOT have the ROMs, so how can they be pirated? Perhaps you don't understand the 65c02. It's available from Rockwell and NCR, and will work in any Apple - even without changing the ROMs, that's called 6502 emulation. I have a II+, and nothing stopped me from upgrading to a 65c02 and later to a 65c802. As I see it, M. Surry is justified in wanting to find documentation for the enhanced //e ROMs before purchasing them. I think that Apple should support the enhanced ROMs as much as the Firmware from previous II's, and if they don't, that would certainly be a factor in my decision for purchasing any Firmware Upgrade. As a II+ owner, I would have to hack my own enhancements, only //e owners can use the CD-EF ROM upgrade. Since it appears that Apple is not interested in offering a II+ 65c02 upgrade, much less a 65c802 upgrade for any II, I would think that publishing documentation on the //e enhanced ROMs would make a good starting point for anyone supporting their own Apple. Apple would still get thier money from sales of the listings. BTW, if you try to say that M. Surry's character generator ROMs are pirated, then I would also disagree. A program running on any II has no way of knowing what images are displayed by the character generator, and therefore the program can't be broken by running with non-standard ROMs (unless you find Russian characters harder to read than Roman ). I have developed several character sets for the ROM in my II+, does Apple have the bit images of their character set copyrighted?. The II+ ROMs are in a different format so I couldn't have 'pirated' them, I had to write an editor an create them myself. When you purchase an Apple II, you have the right as the owner to make any enhancements you see fit. In the future... Please don't assume that anyone who has non-standard enhancements to their Apple is trying to pirate the few enhancements that Apple offers. P.S. I had much rather pay $15.95 to JameCo for a 65c802 and hack my own ROM changes (if any), than pay $80 for a //e Upgrade so that my local dealer can keep $40 to pay the idiots they hire in sales who can't even answer my simple questions about the various 3.5" drives available for the Apple II Plus! Brian Willoughby ...!uw-beaver!microsoft!brianw or microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET or just brianw@microsoft.UUCP #include <std.disclaimer> // these are my own preachings
lauch@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Christopher Lau) (07/22/89)
Can anyone out there describe to me the circuit used in an Apple mouse //e|//c
I've got several generic-type 2 button mice that I'd like to modify for use
on my Apple..
These mice contain the standard opto-mechanical mechanism (2 opto sensors
nearly 180 degrees apart for each direction) and they use an LM339 quad
comparator to generate the signals.. I've tested all of them (not connected
to the computer, just power to the connector..) and they give the following:
Voltage input : 4.94 VDC @ 150 mA (max)
Opto-sensor outputs : Low ("0") = 0.76 VDC
High ("1") = 4.87 VDC
Button outputs : Off = 0.00 VDC
On = 4.94 VDC
I've wired several of them to the appropriate connector and plugged them into
the computer. The buttons (I've wired both together so that they both act
as a single switch) are the only things that work!!! The mouse select is
active (pin 1 on the 9 pin DIN connector) but it seems that the output lines
from the comparator are pulled low.. I know that it isn't the fault of the
computer, as the results were the same both before and after I got the
motherboard replaced (blown IWM chip from accidentally pulling out the ext.
drive connector while power on). I've got the //c Technical Ref Manual
and in chapter 11, it explains a bit about the mouse, but I can't make sense
of the voltage vs. current graphs that appear there... it SEEMS to me that
a 0V,0mA is a "1" to the computer, and then a voltage between 2&3V (I'm
quoting from memory, so the ranges aren't exact) is a "0" and anything
between 4.5 and 5V is again a "1"... Can anyone (especially someone at Apple)
tell me what this means?? does it mean that I have to change the resistors
on the comparator to give 2V instead of 0.76V?? HELP!! I'm desparate to
get these creatures working..
Please post or email replies..
Thanks in advance
Chris
Email-> lauch%vaxa@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Machine I'm posting from)
CYLau@UNCAMULT.BITNET (Preferred)
Disclaimer-> I didn't say any of this... the computer did!!matthew@sunpix.UUCP ( Sun Visualization Products) (08/06/89)
WARNING!!!! If you are refering to the first Apple //c Tech. Ref. Manual, The schematics in chapter 11 are backwards. The one titled 'hand control' is actually the 'mouse circuit' and vice-versa. What do you mean by "The mouse select is active (pin 1 on the 9 pin DIN connector)". Unless this pin is grounded the mouse/joystick port will think its in the joystick mode. -- Matthew Lee Stier | Sun Microsystems --- RTP, NC 27709-3447 | "Wisconsin Escapee" uucp: sun!mstier or mcnc!rti!sunpix!matthew | phone: (919) 469-8300 fax: (919) 460-8355 |
lauch@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Christopher Lau) (08/10/89)
In article <741@greens.UUCP> matthew@sunpix.UUCP ( Sun Visualization Products) writes: > >WARNING!!!! If you are refering to the first Apple //c Tech. Ref. Manual, The >schematics in chapter 11 are backwards. The one titled 'hand control' is >actually the 'mouse circuit' and vice-versa. > Are you sure?? They look OK to me.. but then again I have the 2nd printing of the manual. >What do you mean by "The mouse select is active (pin 1 on the 9 pin DIN >connector)". Unless this pin is grounded the mouse/joystick port will think >its in the joystick mode. > Grounded?? it says on p 267 of my manual for pin 1: 1 MouseID* Mouse identifier: when active, disables NE556 hand controller timer Following this, I've got pin one pulled high through a resistor so it is "active".. unless the book is wrong here.. but I don't think so because as I've said in my original article, the mouse button works, and it only works if pin 1 is pulled high.. the part that doesn't work is the movement.. I don't know if it's the characteristics of the Apple //c port (I don't understand those graphs of the signals that they give, and I'm taking Electrical Engineering!!), the mice that I have are pretty standard as mice go.. They've got 4 opto-couplers with the wheel thingy in the middle, and all these are connected to an LM339 quad comparator which effectively switches the output of the animal from 0 to 5V (actually 0.76V to 4.78V I think.. can't remember offhand).. I've got the output connected to the correct mouse movement pins on the 9-pin connector, but for some reason when the beast is connected to the Apple, some of these outputs are pulled low.. Not all of them, but some of them.. one of them actually triggers correctly and you can produce movement on the screen, but only in one direction.. what am I doing wrong?? can someone please describe the complete circuit of the mouse, including the electronics?? Thanks in advance.. Chris Lau > >-- >Matthew Lee Stier | >Sun Microsystems --- RTP, NC 27709-3447 | "Wisconsin Escapee" >uucp: sun!mstier or mcnc!rti!sunpix!matthew | >phone: (919) 469-8300 fax: (919) 460-8355 | Replies-> If they're interesting, post them to the newsgroup. If not, CYLau@UNCAMULT.BITNET lauch!vaxa@cpsc.ucalgary.ca