DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET (08/03/89)
First time in ages I post to this list...
I got System 5.0 today, and I must say I love the new speed on the finder, and
the new scrolling on long pull-down menus. That's about all I had time to test
before going to work, but while installing it on my hard disk I noticed a
couple problems.
First, an old one that hasn't been fixed. When I booted with System 5.0, the
finder appeared, but my two hard disk volumes did not. After a few tries, I
found that by entering basic.system and setting the prefix to those volumes,
then BYEing back to the finder, I could get them to appear. But that shouldn't
be necessary. I've got a Sider 20 in slot 7.
Later, and this is a new problem, I found that certain icon files cause the
system to crash when it tries to use them. I'm not sure which ones yet, but
will post again when I am. Anybody else had this problem? Any ideas about it?
Let's see....windows open and close nice and fast, but when I scroll a window
that I'm viewing by name, it still crawls along at a snail's pace. Also, I
couldn't see much difference in MultiScribe GS screen activity speed. Perhaps
when I've used it a bit more, though, I'll notice some differences. The large
number of fonts I now have available is a great improvement...
I heard rumor that I could get new software from FCP to make my hard drive boot
nice and fast with System 5.0. Is this true? If so, maybe I can dump all
those dormant NDAs back onto my system disk :)
William R. Dickson
DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNETmattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (08/03/89)
In article <8908021658.aa23622@ADM.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: >First time in ages I post to this list... > >I got System 5.0 today, and I must say I love the new speed on the finder, and >the new scrolling on long pull-down menus. That's about all I had time to test >before going to work, but while installing it on my hard disk I noticed a >couple problems. > >First, an old one that hasn't been fixed. When I booted with System 5.0, the >finder appeared, but my two hard disk volumes did not. After a few tries, I >found that by entering basic.system and setting the prefix to those volumes, >then BYEing back to the finder, I could get them to appear. But that shouldn't >be necessary. I've got a Sider 20 in slot 7. > This is not a GS/OS problem; it's a problem with old Sider ROMs. Basically, when GS/OS generates drivers for peripheral that don't have loaded drivers (files in the DRIVERS directory of the proper format), it asks the device if it's alive or not with a STATUS call. For some reason, the old Sider ROMs respond to this with "offline" unless they've been READ from first. GS/OS doesn't do that. FCP has fixed the problem in their newer ROMs. They also sell a set of loaded drivers for virtually every Sider configuration (including with third-party ROMs) that gives somewhere around a 2X speed increase. I like 'em. >Later, and this is a new problem, I found that certain icon files cause the >system to crash when it tries to use them. I'm not sure which ones yet, but >will post again when I am. Anybody else had this problem? Any ideas about it? > The 4.0 Finder was more tolerant of illegal icon files than the 5.0 Finder is. Most of the problems we've seen come from icon files that have duplicate "system" icons (matching all files, trash can, etc). Those icons should ONLY be in Finder.Icons, and any icon in Finder.Icons should only be modified by changing the image. Don't add, delete, or change the parameters to icons in Finder.Icons - just change the images if you like. If you want more icons, put more icon files in the ICONS directory. The Finder will use them all. > William R. Dickson > DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that AppleLink PE: Matt DTS GEnie: AIIDTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its CompuServe: 76703,3030 | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, Usenet: mattd@apple.com | have any opinion on any subject." UUCP: (other stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
rewing@Apple.COM (Richard Ewing) (08/03/89)
Hi Bill, Here are a few tips on using System Disk 5.0, since you found a few concerns. >I heard rumor that I could get new software from FCP to make my hard drive boot >nice and fast with System 5.0. Is this true? If so, maybe I can dump all >those dormant NDAs back onto my system disk :) This is supposed to be true. The FCP people are supposed to have new Sider drivers for GS/OS 3.0. Don't quote me on this, but its just what I've heard. >Let's see....windows open and close nice and fast, but when I scroll a window >that I'm viewing by name, it still crawls along at a snail's pace. Also, I >couldn't see much difference in MultiScribe GS screen activity speed. Perhaps >when I've used it a bit more, though, I'll notice some differences. The large >number of fonts I now have available is a great improvement... I've found that hitting the scroll bar to have a "by name" listing jump by a page at a time is far faster than using the scroll arrows. I don't even like scrolling that way on my Mac! Haven't tried Multiscribe GS, although Appleshare 1.0v2 works pretty nicely, save the Appleshare file access bugs (anybody listening at Claris?) >First, an old one that hasn't been fixed. When I booted with System 5.0, the >finder appeared, but my two hard disk volumes did not. After a few tries, I >found that by entering basic.system and setting the prefix to those volumes, >then BYEing back to the finder, I could get them to appear. But that shouldn't >be necessary. I've got a Sider 20 in slot 7. > >Later, and this is a new problem, I found that certain icon files cause the >system to crash when it tries to use them. I'm not sure which ones yet, but >will post again when I am. Anybody else had this problem? Any ideas about it? I'm probably guessing that you have a Sider that has various partitions on it instead of just being a pure ProDOS volume, and GS/OS will only recognize and automatically mount volumes that it recognizes are ProDOS unless there are special drivers. You should call FCP. I've noticed the icon problem too. Several icon files (mostly from shareware and freeware sources) caused GS/OS 3.0 to barf violently, either by locking the machine on boot, or crashing with an "bad icon file" system error. I've since removed those, and my system is fine. We should probably fine out which Icon editor is causing the incompatibility problems. Other problems I've had include: The inability for GS/OS to be able to mount by second Apple HD20 ("GS/OS can't recognize this volume, do you wish to format?"), even though System 4.0 liked it before. I eventually had to reformat the sucker. thank god for Appleshare so that i could back up my primary volume before lunching the second. GS/OS Appleshare can't recognize an older 1.1 Appleshare server. This really shouldn't be a problem with most people, although I did notice it here. This is probably to retain compatibility with ProDOS 8, which must access an Appleshare 2.0 compatible server. Some programs and NDAs/Inits are of course, flakey if not downright incompatible. Most glaring is Paintworks GOLD. Since it forces itself to try to access a particular memory segment in the first megabyte, if it doesn't find it, it justs crashes to the monitor (how elegant!). Since I have several NDAs, CDAs, now cdevs, and a few inits load up on boot, my first 700K or so is taken up by system overhead. Kinda frustrating when you have a 4 meg GS to play with. The biggest common problem with programs I've seen involve the new file manager, as some programs and NDAs/CDAs can't deal with ":" as pathname delimeters instead of "/"s. Also, some of programs can't deal with an Appleshare server at all (Appleworks GS comes to mind). Jumpstart seems to work in every aspect except the filename filter, as it is impossible to select the Finder file as the program you want to run when you select "Run the Finder" from its menu. I expect a flurry of upgrades from various sources. One thing for sure, though. All the benefits of the new OS GREATLY outweigh the little problems, and every Mac person in the office I've shown it to has been impressed. Heck, I can even bring the Vax to my desktop via Alisashare. This is an Apple II???? You bet it is! ;-) __________________________________________________________________________ |Disclaimer: Segmentation Fault: Core Dumped. | | | |Internet: REWING@APPLE.COM-----------------------Rick Ewing | |ApplelinkPE & MacNet Soon!------------------Apple Computer, Inc. | |Applelink: EWING--------------------100 Ashford Center North, Suite 100 | |Compu$erve: [76474,1732]--------------------Atlanta, GA 30338 | |GENIE: R.EWING1--------------------------TalkNet: (404) 393-9358 | |USENET: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!rewing | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
dcw@athena.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) (08/04/89)
In article <8908021658.aa23622@ADM.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: >First time in ages I post to this list... > >I got System 5.0 today, and I must say I love the new speed on the finder, and >the new scrolling on long pull-down menus. That's about all I had time to test >before going to work, but while installing it on my hard disk I noticed a >couple problems. >Later, and this is a new problem, I found that certain icon files cause the >system to crash when it tries to use them. I'm not sure which ones yet, but >will post again when I am. Anybody else had this problem? Any ideas about it? > William R. Dickson > > DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET I too just got 5.0 (very nice!! - thanks to those who worked on it. I'm sure we *all* can remain happy for at least 8-10 months :-) I also noticed a couple of problems. One, I came across by accident, is with TextEdit. I was renaming a file from the Finder. I clicked, and the edit bar appeared. When I did stuff to move the cursor (like DEL, arrows, etc) the insert bar remianed where it was, and a new blinking one apeared where it was supposed to be. (to put it simply, the bar didn't properly erase from its original position.) I haven't been able to do this twice, but we'll see. My other problem is with Icon files. I have numerous icon files. I also played around with Finder.Icons and Finder.Icons.X (I added some of my own stuff like new trash cans - I hate the distributed trash cans!) At any rate, *some* stuff from my other icon files is ignored. For example, I have icons for Z-Link and Z-Link config files. Well, the application icon is ignored while the config file icon is read in. In fact, all of the application icons defined are ignored (including the ones made up for Advanced Disk Utilities and Installer). Can anyone help out? Dave Whitney A junior (well, a senior) in Computer Science at MIT dcw@athena.mit.edu ...!bloom-beacon!athena.mit.edu!dcw dcw@goldilocks.mit.edu I wrote Z-Link & BinSCII. Send me bug reports. I use a //GS. Send me Tech Info. "This is MIT. Collect and 3rd party calls will not be accepted at this number."
delaneyg@wnre.aecl.CDN ("H. Grant Delaney") (08/04/89)
One thing came out at the deveopers conferance that is a serious concern with Basic.system on Sytem disk 5.0. If you try to BLOAD to reserved strange things can happen which may result in wiping out you disk from which you load the the program. Another problem appears to occur with PROSEL's copy. Glen apparently uses block read and writes to disk. This goes through cache I beleave and it is possible that part of the copy may not reach it's destination. Matt D. may want to comment on this more. I my self have been unable to do copies of multiple icons selected with a shift finder starts to copy but bombs on the second file with an error which escapes me at the moment. Anyone else seen this. Grant
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/04/89)
In article <8908021658.aa23622@ADM.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: >First, an old one that hasn't been fixed. When I booted with System 5.0, the >finder appeared, but my two hard disk volumes did not. ... I've noticed this with my ProFile, which sometimes isn't shown as available and sometimes is, in an apparently unpredictable manner. (Yes, it's up to speed before I boot and all that.) The HD20SC is always there, but since I boot from it that's hardly surprising.
bh1e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) (08/04/89)
I've been trying to Install GS/OS 5.0 on a 20.5MB partition of a 40.1MB drive. Its a home brew ST-251N connected thru the Apple SCSI (box says Rev. C, didn't bother to check the actual part # f the ROM on the card) Card. Formatted at an interleave of 1:1, using GS/OS ADU. Now, whenever I try to copy the clean system disk to the empty volume, it goes fine until it tries to write the first file into the first subdir that it creates. The subdir is Icons, and the file is...Finder.Icons. Always gives an error $8002. I also got an error $0002 in ADU when installing 'the works'. Different file, though, and I can't recall which one. So, I used GS/OS to copy all the files with resource forks over, and then used ProDOS 8 to copy the rest. NOW, it boots up to one of two points: I. Gets to the finder (the bar at the top appears), then gives me an error about not being able to load the finder's Icons. II. Gets past the thermometer, clears the screen to the finder patter, has NO menubar, and just hangs (with the HDs read light steadily illuminated). I've had no problems installing ProDOS 8 onto it (scrapped the GS/OS idea after 2 hours of frustration). BTW, I CAN boot up GS/OS with the disk I'm copying FROM... whats going on??? Thanks! bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu Brendan Gallgher Hoar
bh1e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) (08/04/89)
addendum to last msg... I think I said that "I had an error in ADU, but not with an icon file in ADU" change ADU to INSTALLER thanks
V2071A@TEMPLEVM.BITNET ("George A. Piotrowski Jr.") (08/04/89)
> My other problem is with Icon files. I have numerous icon files. I > also played around with Finder.Icons and Finder.Icons.X (I added some > of my own stuff like new trash cans - I hate the distributed trash > cans!) At any rate, *some* stuff from my other icon files is ignored. > For example, I have icons for Z-Link and Z-Link config files. Well, > the application icon is ignored while the config file icon is read in. > In fact, all of the application icons defined are ignored (including > the ones made up for Advanced Disk Utilities and Installer). > Can anyone help out? > Dave Whitney A junior (well, a senior) in Computer Science at MIT Dave and anybody else having problems with icon files with System Software 5.0. I seemed to have found that the placement of the finder.icons file in the directory as the directory is listed by a program like Cat.Doctor in prosel determines whether your other icon files take effect. I think the way it works is that your icon files for individual system files are loaded. Then if the system comes across the Finder.icons file after that with of course a standard icon for System files, it replaces any individual file icons with the standard system icons. This happened to me and when I used the sort directory in Cat.Doctor to move the Finder.icons file up to the beginning of the Subdirectory, my icons magically worked again. If this is not exactly the case, maybe Matt or Dave or one of the Crack experts(I don't mean the drug, this is not derogatory) at Apple can explain it. Bye now. ________________________________________________________________________ George A. Piotrowski Bitnet: V2071A@TEMPLEVM Coordinator, Educational Computing Cntr Genie: G.PIOTROWSKI Temple University CompuServe: 74046,1304 Philadelphia, PA 19122 (215) 787-6228 The opinions expressed are my own and do not have anything to do with Temple University. (well, not much) ________________________________________________________________________
bh1e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) (08/05/89)
Hmmm...I thought I already posted this addendum... in my last message about having trouble installing GS/OS on a SCSI drive the INSTALLER gave the error $0002, not ADU (which wouldn't make sense in context). Sorry if both of them pop up. Brendan Gallagher Hoar bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (08/05/89)
In article <10662@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn) writes: >In article <8908021658.aa23622@ADM.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: >>First, an old one that hasn't been fixed. When I booted with System 5.0, the >>finder appeared, but my two hard disk volumes did not. ... > >I've noticed this with my ProFile, which sometimes isn't shown as available >and sometimes is, in an apparently unpredictable manner. (Yes, it's up >to speed before I boot and all that.) The HD20SC is always there, but >since I boot from it that's hardly surprising. Make sure you have the latest ProFILE ROMs (dated 1986). Your dealer can order a free upgrade if you don't. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that AppleLink PE: Matt DTS GEnie: AIIDTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its CompuServe: 76703,3030 | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, Usenet: mattd@apple.com | have any opinion on any subject." UUCP: (other stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
garths@pro-xy.UUCP (Garth Shultz) (08/06/89)
Network Comment: to #64 by obsolete!bh1e+%andrew.cmu.edu Our Pro-Xy system is relatively new... at networking... so I hope not to receive a lot of hate-mail, but... Of the many info-apple feeds we received, today, there are at least ten postings regarding problems with GS/OS 5.0. Essentially... all of them seem to be related to problems with the Finder (Icons, pull-down menus, etc.). I have been "into" Apple II's for about six years (earlier a //e, now a IIGS) and I appear to be one of those few individuals who do not particularly like the Finder. It appears that there is a whole sub-culture evolving around the Finder: Icon Editors, Icon contests, etc., etc. Admittedly, the graphics interface has a certain visual appeal. GS/OS 5.0 was installed on my CMS drive (using the Installer) and I have had, eially, _no_ problems... except for the PaintWorks Gold incompatibility which was so clearly explained by Richard Ewing. Basic.System 1.3 seems to have its share of problems, but so did earlier versions. (I'm not sure it's much easier to type "MTR" than "Call-151", but, apparently, someone decided it was... creating another potential incompatibility with older software.) With ProSel, I have all the ease of program launching, as well as outstanding utilities, I could want. ECP undoubtedly provides the same easy, flexible, interface. The glamour may not be the same, but I don't find myself crashing into the monitor with every change of system software. Mind you, I'm just expressing an opinion... B^) garths@pro-xy (Garth Shultz)
bh1e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) (08/06/89)
Something, of course, could be wrong with the drive setup that I am using... BUT, if there ARE bugs in finder that are causing, or leading to the problems I and others have found, then its a good idea to discuss them, since I'm pretty sure that MOST GS/OS 5.0 users will be using it a great deal. So, I'm going to continue bugging the net about this problem! :) Anyone know if apple.com has any GS/OS 5.0 revision notes or whatever? Thanks...
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/06/89)
In article <33748@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: -In article <10662@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn) writes: ->In article <8908021658.aa23622@ADM.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: ->>First, an old one that hasn't been fixed. When I booted with System 5.0, the ->>finder appeared, but my two hard disk volumes did not. ... ->I've noticed this with my ProFile, which sometimes isn't shown as available ->and sometimes is, in an apparently unpredictable manner. (Yes, it's up ->to speed before I boot and all that.) The HD20SC is always there, but ->since I boot from it that's hardly surprising. I seem to have forgotten to mention that my problems occur with GS/OS 2.0 (System Disk 4.0). I have been unable to find System Disk 5.0 yet. -Make sure you have the latest ProFILE ROMs (dated 1986). Your dealer can -order a free upgrade if you don't. Not only do I have the new ROM, but also I've installed the extra ground run on the ProFile interface card. Mystery still unsolved..
dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (08/09/89)
In article <8908060013.AA11945@obsolete.UUCP> garths@pro-xy.UUCP (Garth Shultz) writes: >Network Comment: to #64 by obsolete!bh1e+%andrew.cmu.edu >[...] Basic.System 1.3 seems to >have its share of problems, but so did earlier versions. (I'm not sure it's >much easier to type "MTR" than "Call-151", but, apparently, someone decided >it was... creating another potential incompatibility with older software.) What problems are you referring to? (Or, "To what problems are you referring (to)?" :-) What incompatibility could be caused by adding an MTR command to BASIC.SYSTEM? --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS | P.O. Box 875 AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
paul@pro-europa.cts.com (Paul Hutmacher) (08/10/89)
Comment to message from: bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) > BUT, if there ARE bugs in finder that are causing, or leading to the problems > I and others have found, then its a good idea to discuss them, since > I'm pretty sure that MOST GS/OS 5.0 users will be using it a great deal. If there are problems with the new finder they've failed to show up on my system. I've been running the released version of OS 5.0 for two weeks now and all appears the same as far as operations go except it's faster. I also installed it over OS 4.0 on my /cms harder from a single apple 3.5 with no problems. The only problem I had was I overwrote my original icons file that had all my modified icons. I had to spend an hour on GEnie leeching every icon upload that looked like it might have the icons I wanted! I got them all back and have not had one iota of trouble. Apple, you guys outdid yourself this time! Paul ______________________________________________________________________________ paul@pro-europa.cts.com | "Open the pod bay door HAL" ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-europa!paul | "Sorry Dave, I can't do that"