craparotta@liovax.DEC.COM (Physical T5--Virtual T7) (06/13/89)
I've had the CMS60 meg drive for over 1 1/2 yrs.. The problem as I understand with the ROM was that some had problems and that if you have the Mitsubishi ROM then all was ok. I've been using my CMS60 with 5.0 for some time now with no drive related problems. I've had other problems, but they cannot be blamed on the DRIVE or its SCSI card. I have talked to the people over at CMS and they have stated that they do have a SCSI driver for their card when GS/OS 5.0 comes out. It WILL let you use Apples partitioning software also. As for the power supplies, they are suspect. I've had 2 replaced so far and hear that they now have a new supply that has been working out fine. Joe
rich@pro-exchange.cts.com (Rich Sims) (06/19/89)
Comment to message from: pnet01!crash!trout.nosc.mil!pnet01!pro-newfrontier!kblack ((Kevin Black) > I'm interested in compiling some statistics on how many people who have had > CMS drives have had problems with their power supplies. I feel as though CMS > has done buyers of its products a disservice, buy selling their drives with > sub-standard power supplies. If it turn out that this is true, I'm > considering, some sort of action via one of the consumer protection agencies. > I would like the following information: > > Type of drive (size, computer type) > Approx date of purchase > Dates of service/service performed/ > Any comments on general reliability To be even reasonably accurate, it seems you would also need some data on the people who have _not_ had problems with CMS drives, also! Count me among that latter group. I purchased a CMS 60SD on Nov 20, 1987, and another one about 6 months later. They have both been running continuously (24 hours per day) ever since, on my Apple IIgs, and have both survived numerous power failures (a continuing problem in this area). I have never lost a single byte of data for any reason other than total mental collapse on my part. The only problem I've ever had is a bad controller card which was replaced at no charge and _without_ requiring me to ship the bad one back first. I would purchase another one without hesitation! Rich Sims UUCP: crash!pro-exchange!rich ARPA: crash!pro-exchange!rich@nosc.mil INET: rich@pro-exchange.cts.com
jazzman@claris.com (Sydney R. Polk) (06/20/89)
From article <8906180636.AA12689@crash.cts.com>, by "@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU: > Network Comment: to #5185 by obsolete!craparotta%liovax.DEC%decwrl.dec.com > > I'm interested in compiling some statistics on how many people who have had > CMS drives have had problems with their power supplies. I feel as though CMS > has done buyers of its products a disservice, buy selling their drives with > sub-standard power supplies. If it turn out that this is true, I'm > considering, some sort of action via one of the consumer protection agencies. > I would like the following information: > > Type of drive (size, computer type) About 10 CMS SD-60's that have been shuffled between the Mac and the IIGS. Also 3 SD-20's. > Approx date of purchase Between August 1987 and July 1988 > Dates of service/service performed/ One power supply on 60 dead in March of 1988, one in July of 88, one in Sept 88 > Any comments on general reliability Except for the power supplies, a generally excellent drive. Much more reliable than the Siders we replaced with them. -- Syd Polk | Wherever you go, there you are. jazzman@claris.com | Let the music be your light. GO 'STROS! | These opinions are mine. Any resemblence to other GO RICE! | opinions, real or fictitious, is purely coincidence.
tomj@pro-pac.cts.com (Tom Jenkins) (06/22/89)
Network Comment: to #9126 by pnet01!crash!trout.nosc.mil!pnet01!pro-newfrontier!kblack
Regarding CMS Hard Drives...
I purchasd mine in April 1988 from a dealer here in Honolulu. The original
drive/card never really did work right - sometimes it would boot up
correctly, other times it would "hang". I figured it was the SCSI card, but
the dealer ordered another drive and card before I took mine in for
replacement and made a one for one swap. Since that time, it has run fine
(with the exception as noted below) I run a IIgs (1Mb) with various
peripherals such as PCT, TWGS, AST Digitizer. The computer runs about two to
three hours a day (give or take some) and until a month ago, the drive
performed flawlessly. After saving a large file (in MSDOS), I would get "I/O
errors" and then sometimes the drive would spin normally, but would not read
or write. After several seconds of inactivety, the drive would "hang".
Removal of all peripheral cards did not solve the problem. Turns out it was
the CMS SCSI card which was replaced (by the dealer) at no charge - within
the warranty.
Would I purchase another? In a microsecond. I open up all my electronic
equipment and was satisfied in the workmanship. I can't vouch for the
electronic design as I don't have a schematic. (btw, I've owned apples since
1980). It seems to run somewhat warm although not hot to the touch.
By the way, I wrote CMS last month and asked several questions. Here are
some answers from Jamie Neihaus (CMS Technical Support):
q - Why does the thermometer not work from GSOS? Is it because a new driver
is needed? If so, will you offer one?
a - CMS drives are completely compatable with the GSOS operating system, with
the exception that using our card we partition though jumper settings on the
card rather than through software as does Apple. The thermometer should work
fine, if it does not then there may be a conflict perhaps with one of your
cards or maybe software. (this doesn't really make sense; all the people who
own these puppies have the same problem - Tom)
q - Is there any upgrades that I can get for the partitioning software for
the hard drive?
a - CMS is currently working on an upgraded utility and ROM for the Apple II
line which should be out within the next two months. (Yipee! I can't wait)
q - Is there software that would allow me to reset the hard drive without
turning if off?
a - Usually pushing the Control-Command-Reset will reset the drive without
having to power the unit down.
q - Does (if available) the new software allow faster disk access?
a - Our new software is still in a beta version right now, so I can't really
speculate what the end product will contain. (yeah, musta learned trade
secreting from Apple)
q - There is some mention of 2:1 and 4:1 interleave on the new operating
system. How does this affect me? Does the CMS drive have it's own
interleave scheme and does not use the 3 1/2 2:1 and 4:1 interleave system?
a - There is no selectable interleave for the Apple II at present time with
our drives. Once again that could be changed with new software and the
introduction of the Apple 5.0 system.
q - I also have an Apple IIc (with new ROM's). Is there anything on your
drawing board that would allow me to use the CMS-60? Such as a IIc
smartport?
a - At present we do not support the Apple IIc. (boy, if they did, imagine
the profit margin!)
q - Do you offer a tape backup? Backing up either partition (30M or so)
takes up to 30 each 3 1/2 inch diskettes.
a - At present we do not offer a tape backup for the Apple II, however it is
possible that in the future we may.
q - Can you send me a speed comparison between all the hard drives you offer
for the Apple line? Including the Macintosh?
a - Yes the list is as follows:
(this was a typed listing of the speeds of all their drives from the Apple II
line 20Mb (at 25Ms) to the Mac 600Mb (16.5ms).
There it is. Any comments?
--
UUCP: {nosc, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd, sun.COM}
...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj
ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj@nosc.MIL
INET: tomj@pro-pac.CTS.COM - BITNET: pro-pac.UUCP!tomj@PSUVAX1mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (06/23/89)
In article <8906220923.AA13640@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj@nosc.mil writes: > >By the way, I wrote CMS last month and asked several questions. Here are >some answers from Jamie Neihaus (CMS Technical Support): > >q - Why does the thermometer not work from GSOS? Is it because a new driver >is needed? If so, will you offer one? >a - CMS drives are completely compatable with the GSOS operating system, with >the exception that using our card we partition though jumper settings on the >card rather than through software as does Apple. The thermometer should work >fine, if it does not then there may be a conflict perhaps with one of your >cards or maybe software. (this doesn't really make sense; all the people who >own these puppies have the same problem - Tom) >-- >UUCP: {nosc, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd, sun.COM} > ...!crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj >ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-nsfmat!pro-pac!tomj@nosc.MIL >INET: tomj@pro-pac.CTS.COM - BITNET: pro-pac.UUCP!tomj@PSUVAX1 The CMS drive doesn't work with the GS/OS boot thermometer for one reason and one reason only - the CMS card locks out interrupts for an ungodly period of time on boot. If you're trying to use AppleTalk with this card, it will probably die as well. As one of the ClarWare guys (Syd?) noted earlier, using anything that reenables interrupts (such as the GSBug.INIT from APDA) starts the thermometer on the march once again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that AppleLink PE: Matt DTS GEnie: AIIDTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its CompuServe: 76703,3030 | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, Usenet: mattd@apple.com | have any opinion on any subject." UUCP: (other stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (06/23/89)
Network Comment: to #8953 by pnet01!crash!apple.com!mattd Of course, the thermometer when starting up GS/OS isn't accurate anyway. Depending on what's on the disk, the startup can be done when the thermometer is only half-way done, or it continues on even after the thermometer fills.. and we're talking several seconds (10 or more). And then, if you happen to go into the control panel during bootup, the thermometer just fills up instantly. That, along with the time it takes to load (even on my harddrive) keep me from using it on a regular basis. Now if the OS would be built-into the ROMs.. then there might be hope.
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (06/24/89)
pnet01!pro-beagle!mmunz@nosc.mil writes: >Network Comment: to #8953 by pnet01!crash!apple.com!mattd > > Of course, the thermometer when starting up GS/OS isn't accurate anyway. > Depending on what's on the disk, the startup can be done when the thermometer > is only half-way done, or it continues on even after the thermometer fills.. > and we're talking several seconds (10 or more). > You're just mad because I hit you with that Koosh ball. Of course it's not accurate, if you mean always accurate every time. It's a measure of how long it took to boot *last* time. If you change your boot process often (adding/deleting DAs or setup files or FSTs), the thermometer is not going to be right. Neither will it be right if the boot disk is write- protected so it can't update the guess. It does work better on 5.0 - going into a CDA menu or the text screen doesn't cause the bar to instantly fill, and several P8-related bugs were fixed. > And then, if you happen to go into the control panel during bootup, the > thermometer just fills up instantly. > > That, along with the time it takes to load (even on my harddrive) keep me > from using it on a regular basis. Now if the OS would be built-into the > ROMs.. then there might be hope. "Keep me from using it" I suppose means storing $5254 into the auxtype of Start.GS.OS, which currently causes the boot process to use only the text screen. That's not guaranteed, y'know, but is widely circulated. I use it all the time and rarely have problems. I had one odd configuration once which caused it to stop before the end of the bar and sit there for a while, but I just incremented the auxtype by one and it worked just fine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that AppleLink PE: Matt DTS GEnie: AIIDTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its CompuServe: 76703,3030 | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, Usenet: mattd@apple.com | have any opinion on any subject." UUCP: (other stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jazzman@claris.com (Sydney R. Polk) (06/24/89)
From article <8906220923.AA13640@crash.cts.com>, by tomj@pro-pac.cts.com (Tom Jenkins): > q - Why does the thermometer not work from GSOS? Is it because a new driver > is needed? If so, will you offer one? > a - CMS drives are completely compatable with the GSOS operating system, with > the exception that using our card we partition though jumper settings on the > card rather than through software as does Apple. The thermometer should work > fine, if it does not then there may be a conflict perhaps with one of your > cards or maybe software. (this doesn't really make sense; all the people who > own these puppies have the same problem - Tom) No. The card disables interrupts and does not re-enable them until the boot sequence is almost done. The thermometer runs by getting interrupts, so there is no thermometer. Amuch more serious consequence of this is that you cn set up an AppleShare volume to be logged on at boot time, but the CMS card will turn off interrupts, and the AppleShare init will hang. This is VERY annoying. The way we fixed it is we made sure that one of the init's (GSbug) that enables interrupts gets run FIRST. -- Syd Polk | Wherever you go, there you are. jazzman@claris.com | Let the music be your light. GO 'STROS! | These opinions are mine. Any resemblence to other GO RICE! | opinions, real or fictitious, is purely coincidence.
bobl@pro-graphics.UUCP (Bob Lindabury) (06/25/89)
Network Comment: to #267 by pnet01!crash!pro-pac.cts.com!tomj
>From what I've heard (rumor), CMS has discontinued support of the Apple //
line. Your ROM upgrade answer was quite surprising to me. I guess we will
have to see what the final outcome will be. I have 3 CMS controller cards and
I would certainly be interested in an upgrade ROM since it hasn't been updated
in over 1 year. However, I tend to believe the stories that have been
circulating that CMS has dropped support of the Apple // line due to the fact
that the proprietary SCSI controller was "too difficult to support".
-- Bob
_______________________________________________________________________________
UUCP: crash!pro-graphics!bobl | ProLine: bobl@pro-graphics
InterNet: crash!bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com | CServe: 70347,2344
ARPA/DDN: crash!pro-graphics!bobl@nosc.mil | AppleLink: Graphics3D
_______________________________________________________________________________dseah@wpi.wpi.edu (David I Seah) (06/26/89)
In article <8906231416.AA27057@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-beagle!mmunz@nosc.mil writes: >Network Comment: to #8953 by pnet01!crash!apple.com!mattd > > Of course, the thermometer when starting up GS/OS isn't accurate anyway. > Depending on what's on the disk, the startup can be done when the thermometer > is only half-way done, or it continues on even after the thermometer fills.. > and we're talking several seconds (10 or more). The thermometer appears to be accurate to me when GS/OS is loading the startup s16 file. However, when the s16 file starts loading its tools and its own files, the thermometer goes away and you're stuck staring at the white screen. Maybe its different for hard drives. I don't have one yet :~( > That, along with the time it takes to load (even on my harddrive) keep me > from using it on a regular basis. Now if the OS would be built-into the > ROMs.. then there might be hope. It has been said that the SCSI driver on System Disk 5.0 will be six times faster than the current driver. Yow! The sages murmur that AppleWorks GS will load in 15 seconds! -- Dave Seah | O M N I D Y N E S Y S T E M S - M | Internet: dseah@wpi.wpi.edu | "User Friendly Killing Machines" | AlinkPE: AFC DaveS | A Division of SLO, International | Bitnet: dseah@wpi.bitnet
"@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU (07/22/89)
Network Comment: to #5185 by obsolete!craparotta%liovax.DEC%decwrl.dec.com
I'm interested in compiling some statistics on how many people who have had
CMS drives have had problems with their power supplies. I feel as though CMS
has done buyers of its products a disservice, buy selling their drives with
sub-standard power supplies. If it turn out that this is true, I'm
considering, some sort of action via one of the consumer protection agencies.
I would like the following information:
Type of drive (size, computer type)
Approx date of purchase
Dates of service/service performed/
Any comments on general reliability
UUCP: crash!pro-newfrontier!kblack
ARPA: crash!pro-newfrontier!kblack@nosc.mil
INET: kblack@pro-newfrontier.cts.com
"Progress doesn't enlighten people - It just makes them stupid in new ways"sjklafke@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Scott James Klafke) (08/17/89)
In article <8906180636.AA12689@crash.cts.com> pnet01!pro-sol!pro-newfrontier!kblack@nosc.mil writes: >I'm interested in compiling some statistics on how many people who have had >CMS drives have had problems with their power supplies. I feel as though CMS >has done buyers of its products a disservice, buy selling their drives with >sub-standard power supplies. If it turn out that this is true, I'm >considering, some sort of action via one of the consumer protection agencies. >I would like the following information: > > Type of drive (size, computer type) > Approx date of purchase > Dates of service/service performed/ > Any comments on general reliability > Well, I have had other problems with CMS. I don't think it was the power supply that went, but anyways, it just stopped booting. No problem, the drive was only 10 months old, still under warranty. Call CMS to get a RMA number, sounds easy enough, right? No. They wouldn't give me one over the phone and they told me that any authorized CMS dealer would give me one. No dice. The authorized ones said that they would only help me if I bought it there, so I had to call the place in Georgia where I bought it (I live in WI). They said I would have to mail it to them. The funniest thing about this is this quote directly from the manual: "CMS will repair it within 48 hours and ship it prepaid by similar common carrier service as shipped to CMS.". How in the **** do I know how the GA computer store will send it to CMS? Now how about a complaint about Zip Technology. That chip went 3 days after the hard drive. Zip's computers were down for 3 days, and when I finally got a RMA, they told me that there were no chips that were ready for shipment and it would probably take about 4-6 weeks for them to even look at my package. Great, so here I sit using floppies at 1 Mhz when I was used to 60 megs and 4 Mhz. My hard drive has been gone 10 days and the Zip Chip for 7. It sure is hard to re-adjust! And no, I don't just like to complain, other than this I have had no other problems with these companies and really do like these products. -- Scott James Klafke (sjklafke@csd4.csd.uwm.edu) Scott & Company Business Phone Home Phone 372 E. Bay St. (414) 438-1790 (414) 744-9058 Milw., WI 53207-1236 -- It isn't creative, but it's MINE! --
garths@pro-xy.UUCP (Garth Shultz) (08/18/89)
Network Comment: to #516 by obsolete!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!sjklafke%tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Reply to Scott James Klafke: > Call CMS to get a RMA number, sounds easy enough, right? No. They wouldn't > give me one over the phone and they told me that any authorized CMS dealer > would give me one. No dice. The authorized ones said that they would only > help me if I bought it there, so I had to call the place in Georgia where > I bought it (I live in WI). They said I would have to mail it to them. Welcome to the "Mendicants And Supporters Of Cms Hard drives, Inc., Society of Mavens." (M.A.S.O.C.H.I.S.M.) Our society requires that: a) you must have spent several dollars making phone calls to get RMA numbers, and b) be inconvenienced by the machinations... preferably losing some valuable data from your hard drive, and c) become acquainted with the UPS desk persons on a first name basis... The charter members of M.A.S.O.C.H.I.S.M. (I and jlink@pro-xy) have liberalized the original criteria--from having to return a CMS hard drive (although _that_ action advances you, automatically, to the 23rd degree status) to others who have had similar experiences. Our more liberal membership rules extend to other individuals who have had to suffer through weeks of deprivations--awaiting return of hardware/software without which one cannot exist--as long as the above requirements have been met. If M.A.S.O.C.H.I.S.M. membership continues to grow, perhaps we should start our own "feed" to provide support and encouragement--perhaps another twelve step program--for computer junkies. garths@pro-xy (Garth Shultz)