charles@ncelvax.UUCP (Charles R. Lindsey Jr.) (08/25/89)
I am thinking about buying a IIGS, my mother [a high school computer/math teacher] has one at home. I was impressed with it and loved the color and ease of use. When I went to the local computer store, I was steered towards the Macs; the IIGS was 'for the elementary and junior high' crowd, *not* for someone like me. I have a 7 year-old at home, and I know he would like the color and sound of the IIGS. However, the salesman would suggest a IIC and a Mac purchase. I'm somewhat leery of buying the whole store to satisfy the situation. What specifically does it take to upgrade a IIGS, in terms of memory and speed, to have essentially a color mac? Please e-mail products and prices to acheive this. After I suggested this to the salesman I was given the "bum's rush", and given little advice on how to make a more powerful IIGS. thanks in advance for the help -charles lindsey naval civil engineering lab port hueneme, ca
shankar@king.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Subash Shankar) (08/25/89)
In article <470@ncelvax.UUCP> charles@ncelvax.UUCP (Charles R. Lindsey Jr.) writes: > When I went to the local computer >store, I was steered towards the Macs; the IIGS was 'for the >elementary and junior high' crowd, *not* for someone like me. > However, the salesman would suggest a IIC and a >Mac purchase. I'm somewhat leery of buying the whole store to satisfy >the situation. ?????? I haven't the foggiest why somebody would want a //c and not a //GS. The GS is faster then the //c (and faster then the //c+ in native mode), expandable, has far superior graphics, sound, and ROMs, much more sophisticated software, .... > >What specifically does it take to upgrade a IIGS, in terms of memory >and speed, to have essentially a color mac? Well, it depends on what kind of Mac you're talking about. The IIGS really can't be upgraded to equal any of the Mac II family computers, but if you had enough money to buy a Mac II, you probably wouldn't be asking this question, so I'll assume you're talking about SE's. With a Transwarp GS card (a little under $300 mail order), and any of numerous RAM cards (1 Meg in addition to the existing Meg on the motherboard would cost about $250) would bring up the GS comparable to a SE as far as speed and memory go. You'll probably have less software availability going the GS route though, especially in business and productivity software. Off course, there'll be lots more educational software on the GS. One comment - I believe that a hard drive would be essential on both the GS and Mac. --- Subash Shankar Honeywell Systems & Research Center voice: (612) 782 7558 US Snail: 3660 Technology Dr., Minneapolis, MN 55418 shankar@src.honeywell.com srcsip!shankar
delaneyg@wnre.aecl.CDN ("H. Grant Delaney") (08/26/89)
You sure are getting the shaft. This is exactly what we told Apple at the developer's conferance in JULY. ADVERTISE it for small business as well as home and school. OK to let you know where I come form I'm a systems programer on DEC VAX computers. I use the GS at home for most everthing. What do you need: Well for a start make sure you get the newly released IIGS with 1.125 meg memory Now add at least 1 3.5 disk and probably a 5.25. If you can swing the cost a hard drive is nice but that can wait. You'll want a color monitor. Look at SONY monitor TV their as good or better than the apple and often cheeper. get a cooling fan. System saver GS or the one applied engineering are selling are best MORE memory at least 1 extra meg my suggestion Octo Ram or Applied engineering GSRAM + or ultra 1 meg chips are getting cheeper and cheeper. the 256 seem to be staying to high. That will give you a basic system. look in INCIDER at you local magazine stand or NIbble for best prices on all but the basic system. Mail order is the cheepest and their are some very reliable dealers around such as Programs Plus Big Red Computer Club (my favorite) and others. the whole thing should be $1500 to $2000 dollars. Grant
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (08/28/89)
> I am thinking about buying a IIGS, my mother [a high school >computer/math teacher] has one at home. I was impressed with it and >loved the color and ease of use. When I went to the local computer >store, I was steered towards the Macs; the IIGS was 'for the >elementary and junior high' crowd, *not* for someone like me. It appears Apple dealers have some sales people who aren't even qualified to sell shoes ("L.A. Gear's not the thing for you, let me show you something in the way of Guicci"). There seem to be a large number of "grown ups" reading this list who don't believe Apple II's are only for kids. Find a sales person who takes the time to find out what you are likely to DO with a computer. In all likelihood you'll be able to do your thing with a variety of brands and models. I bought an Apple II in the first place because I too wanted to share a computer with my young children (six years ago). It turned out to be a superior idea. Do you use computers at work (what kind)? Do you do much heavy financial analysis (spread sheets in the 100K and up range)? Do you plan on running statistical analysis? Yes, answers to any of the above *might* indicate some limitations if you buy a IIgs. Otherwise, the question is what can a Mac do for YOU that a IIgs can't? Your kids will be happier with a IIgs than a //c. Murph Sewall Vaporware? ---> [Gary Larson returns 1/1/90] Prof. of Marketing Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET Business School sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu [INTERNET] U of Connecticut {psuvax1 or mcvax }!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL [UUCP] (203) 486-5246 [FAX] (203) 486-2489 [PHONE] 41 49N 72 15W [ICBM] The opposite of artificial intelligence is genuine stupidity! -+- I don't speak for my employer, though I frequently wish that I could (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited)
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) (08/28/89)
In article <402*delaneyg@wnre.aecl.cdn> delaneyg@wnre.aecl.CDN ("H. Grant Delaney") writes: [...] >You'll want a color monitor. Look at SONY monitor TV their as good or better >than the apple and often cheeper. The Apple monitor IS a Sony. But true you can get a mass-market Sony cheaper. Go for a Multi-Scan analog if you can afford it (about the same price as the Apple, much much better and compatible with IBM VGA). >get a cooling fan. System saver GS or the one applied engineering are selling >are best What's wrong with the Apple fan? It kept my GS cool, even when I had 4 cards in it. It's only $49. And try running your CPU on its side with the System Saver GS! (as I have to to make room for the (yuck) PC also on my desk) For all that, you also get two whole extra outlets for only $50 more or so. What a deal! :-< >MORE memory at least 1 extra meg my suggestion Octo Ram or Applied engineering >GSRAM + or ultra 1 meg chips are getting cheeper and cheeper. the 256 >seem to be staying to high. Last I checked, 120ns 256Kx1 DRAMs were $5.99 ea. and dropping like a rock. Not too bad... >That will give you a basic system. look in INCIDER at you local magazine stand I won't say what I think of InCider, it's all been said before. Th-th-th-th-th-th-th-that's all f-f-f-folks! =============================================================================== jawaid bazyar jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Junior/Computer Engineering UIUC Seepage from deep,black,brittle experiments which failed and transformations too hard to find. "I was overcome and turned to Red." Duster's dust became the sale. Lucifer the light. A restless motion came to move and then subside. In endless knocking at the door- it's time. TYRANNY & MVTATION. TYRANNY & MVTATION.
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/28/89)
In article <470@ncelvax.UUCP> charles@ncelvax.UUCP (Charles R. Lindsey Jr.) writes: >What specifically does it take to upgrade a IIGS, in terms of memory >and speed, to have essentially a color mac? Please e-mail products >and prices to acheive this. Please report your dealer to Apple's regional office (or send a letter to Cupertino); it's dealers like that who are helping kill the Apple II line. Most Apple dealers I've dealt with have at least one employee who specializes in the IIGS; always try to identify such an individual and get chummy with him. I'm posting my configuration suggestions rather than mailing them directs, for a couple of reasons. (1) I'm not sure that ncelvax.UUCP is a valid domain address; (2) a general discussion may be useful to others. The "optimum" IIGS configuration necessarily depends on your needs and constraints. I'll assume that you're willing to spend whatever it takes to meet your needs, and that you plan to use the dickens out of your IIGS. Base IIGS: keyboard, mouse, CPU box, some amount of RAM. You absolutely MUST expand to a total of 1.25MB RAM (or more) or you'll bump into the limits while doing ordinary useful work. I have 2.25MB and find that it has always been sufficient. If you write programs that use huge arrays, you may need more. Beware: Apple's IIGS memory expansion card only accommodates 1MB. Larger capacity is available from several third-party vendors (mine is an MDIdeas OctoRAM, unique in taking SIMMs). You absolutely MUST have a color RGB monitor. Apple's is fine if you're not trying to pinch pennies. AE's Transwarp GS more than doubles the speed of the CPU for most uses. Whether or not you need the increased speed depends on what you plan to use the IIGS for. Generally I'd recommend it. There is also a card that emulates an IBM PC ("Transporter"). It is probably more cost-effective to buy a PC clone (in addition to your IIGS) if you need PC compatibility; however, if desk space is at a premium the card (and IBM-compatible disk drive) might be helpful. If you want to play arcade games, you need a joystick. This should be Apple's (//e-compatible), because others cheat on the circuitry and may not work with some programs. A "mouse pad" (sponge-rubber backed fabric) is highly recommended. If you don't have TWO Apple 3.5 drives (the ONLY 3.5" drive I recommend), you'll regret it. You need Apple 5.25 drives (the ONLY 5.25" drive I recommend) ONLY if you have existing Apple II floppies you need to continue to use. One Apple 5.25 drive is sufficient unless you play a lot of 8-bit Apple II games like Ultima, Wizardry, etc. where two drives are much more convenient. You almost certainly will need a large ("hard") disk. Mine is an Apple HD20SC (20MB, uses Apple's SCSI interface card), which is expensive. (Actually I also have a 5MB ProFile, not recommended these days.) If you do a lot of programming or plan to get involved with a lot of graphics and/or sound digitizing, you'll need more disk. 80MB is not unreasonable. 170MB is probably too large, due to ProDOS filesystem limitations coupled with partitioning limits. There are several third- party disk vendors. At present there is not much need for a CD-ROM player. This may change in the next year or two. If you have a SCSI interface, Apple's CD-ROM drive should be easy to accommodate when you decide you need it. I don't recall hearing of any FAX interfaces for the IIGS, but there may be some. If you're really into music, you probably need a MIDI interface; Apple's is okay. There are also stereo cards and sound digitizers available from third-party vendors. You should evaluate these in person before buying, as some of them have too much hum. Some people like to get the Bose amplified speakers, while others already have a stereo system and would rather use that. If you're not much into sound, you may still benefit from using Walkman-style lightweight headphones (the jack on the back of the IIGS provides MONO sound on both channels). Apple sells a Video Overlay Card that allows superposition of computer display and video, although I haven't figured out a good use for it. Image digitizers are available from various third-party vendors. You almost certainly need a printer. Apple's ImageWriter II is fine, and is better supported by IIGS applications than other types. Often a printer stand is useful. Mine is a fairly simple plastic contraption whose main role is to hold a paper supply and catch the output. I recommend getting a printer buffer (preferably Apple's), to reduce the time your computer spends waiting for the printer to finish. For access to information services and BBSes, a modem would be handy. 2400/1200/300 bps models are best for most uses. I use Anchor Automation's 2400E, but others available for similar prices (~$250) should work just as well. Hayes AT command set support is recommended. Although not strictly necessary, I find the MDIdeas "Conserver" (now being sold by AE) very handy. In addition to a cooling fan, it holds two Apple 3.5 drives and has three sets of AC outlets controlled by separate front-panel switches. Make sure you get the adapter cable needed for daisy-chaining off the second Apple 3.5 drive, if you have Apple 5.25 drives; there isn't room behind the drive for the usual connector. Apple's internal fan is NOT recommended, due to the noise it adds to the sound circuits. There should be a glossy Apple II product catalog/magazine (including third-party vendors) at any Apple dealer. I forget its exact title. A+/Incider magazine also has lots of IIGS add-on ads. Software is another story. Some people think every IIGS owner should have AppleWorks GS, but personally I have no use for it. System Software 5.0 (should come with your IIGS, also available from information services) provides a Finder and basic file/disk-handling tools, but no real programming facilities (I don't count AppleSoft BASIC). Beyond that, it would depend on your intended usage. For programming, I recommend Orca/C and Orca/M (Orca/Pascal if you really want Pascal), although there are other good products available. It is important to cooperate with the Apple IIGS Programmer's WorkShop (APW), which is the "official" IIGS application development environment; Orca/* are so far as I can tell fully APW-compatible. There is a lot of IIGS freeware/shareware available, mostly via information services. There are some really good commercial IIGS games, too. Dungeon Master, Alien Mind, and Xenocide are recent ones that immediately come to mind. I'm sure you'll hear from a lot of others on this subject!
lbotez@pnet02.gryphon.com (Lynda Botez) (08/29/89)
[Delaney writes] >>You'll want a color monitor. Look at SONY monitor TV their as good or >>better than the apple and often cheeper. [Bazyar writes] >The Apple monitor IS a Sony. But true you can get a mass-market Sony >cheaper. Go for a Mult-Scan analog if you can afford it (about the same >price as the Apple, much much better and compatible with IBM VGA). If I knew then what I know now, there would be NO way I would have purchased the Apple monitor that comes with the GS. BTW, Trinitron also makes an excellent TV monitor. At least if your computer becomes outdated, you still have a television set (if ALL else fails)... >What's wrong with an Apple fan? Where have you been? Perhaps you are stone deaf, or don't you don't utilize the "sound" features in the Apple IIgs. That damn thing is so noisy, you can hardly hear the speaker unless you turn it way up. BTW, I've got a spare in my closet I'd just love to get rid of... any takers? Have I got a deal for YOU! Lynda UUCP: {ames!elroy, <routing site>}!gryphon!pnet02!lbotez INET: lbotez@pnet02.gryphon.com
dseah@wpi.wpi.edu (David I Seah) (08/29/89)
In article <1865@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jawaid Bazyar) writes: > The Apple monitor IS a Sony. But true you can get a mass-market Sony >cheaper. Go for a Multi-Scan analog if you can afford it (about the same >price as the Apple, much much better and compatible with IBM VGA). I think I've got a Hitachi monitor...at least I recall seeing the Hitachi corporate symbol somewhere on the packages. In any case, the monitor I have isn't a Trinitron. Does Sony make non-Trinitron tubes? What causes that lame moire effect in 640x200 mode, anyway?
kreme@netcom.UUCP (Kreme The Immortal) (08/30/89)
In article <10836@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn) writes: >If you want to play arcade games, you need a joystick. This should be >Apple's (//e-compatible), because others cheat on the circuitry and may Huh? I have used a CH Mach III on my //e and on various GS machines without a problem. I've never had a problem, and I've never hear of CH cheating on circutry... Care to explain? -- | apple!netcom!kreme |All the towns in America and I have to move to | |The real cycle you're |the Bermuda Triangle. Nightmare on Elm Street | |working on is a cycle |Why do they fear the sunless lands? It is as | |called yourself. |natural to die as it is to be born. Sandman | | Robert Pirsig |WARNING:THESE OPINIONS ARE HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED|
emerrill@tippy.uucp (08/31/89)
>In article <10836@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn) writes: >>If you want to play arcade games, you need a joystick. This should be >>Apple's (//e-compatible), because others cheat on the circuitry and may > >Huh? I have used a CH Mach III on my //e and on various GS machines without >a problem. I've never had a problem, and I've never hear of CH cheating >on circutry... Care to explain? I also have a CH Mach III joystick (16 pin--originally for my II plus). After about 4 years of use, it still is as good as the day I bought it... except the color doesn't match the IIgs... :-) _________________________________________________________ | | | Eric Merrill Alink PE: Doc Neuro GEnie: e.merrill | | tippy!emerrill@newton.physics.purdue.edu | | Disclaimer: | | If you think I'm serious, that's your problem! | |_________________________________________________________|
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/31/89)
In article <2237@netcom.UUCP> kreme@netcom.UUCP (Kreme The Immortal) writes: >In article <10836@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn) writes: >>If you want to play arcade games, you need a joystick. This should be >>Apple's (//e-compatible), because others cheat on the circuitry and may >Huh? I have used a CH Mach III on my //e and on various GS machines without >a problem. I've never had a problem, and I've never hear of CH cheating >on circutry... Care to explain? Apple's joystick uses 150Kohm potentiometers. This is a somewhat unusual value, so some manufacturers substitute 100Kohm pots (for example) and add capacitance to maintain the same RC time constant for the 555 timer that coverts the resistance to a counter value. This approach assumes that all Apples supply the same value of internal capacitance, which may not be the case. The other common change is to use higher resistance values to extend the count range. That means that center position would not be count 127, for example. If the software does not provide a joystick calibration procedure (some do, e.g. Xenocide), then such a joystick will not work with that program in the way the user expects. I got the above information from various sources and don't swear that it's completely correct..