gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/23/89)
In article <794@madnix.UUCP> jason@madnix.UUCP (Jason Blochowiak) writes: > Speaking of public reaction to my stuff - how many people out there >that write ShareWare get paid for it? I've gotten $4 for my animated watch >(which is FreeWare, so I was somewhat suprised to get anything for it), ... I thought it was pretty cute, but I didn't continue using it; others may have had the same reaction, so even if it had been marked as "shareware" you may not have drawn many "customers". It doesn't surprise me that someone thought a cute idea deserved some small reward, though. On the low rate of return from shareware, I haven't heard of anybody getting rich through shareware. A couple of the most famous and useful programs may have paid off, but most users probably don't feel that the shareware author expects to have his appeal for reimbursement taken seriously. The best success along these lines appears to come from those products that are useful enough to draw "customers", but are missing things (such as source code, support, or certain subfunctions) which are documented as being supplied upon payment of the shareware fee. Then there's always the Xenocide author's approach, namely to release nifty free software that contains embedded exhortations to buy his big commercial product in order to pay for further development of freebies.
orcus@pro-lep.cts.com (Brian Greenstone) (08/26/89)
Comment to message from: gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!mailrus!uflorida!haven!adm!smoke!gwyn@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Doug Gwyn) Yep, shareware just doesnt pay off... Ive tried it. But I have noticed that because of all of the FREEWARE games that Ive been writing and using them to plug my game Xenocide, that Ive been making quite a number of sales that way. I highly recommend that method and also, releasing a game as freeware really makes people appreciate you as opposed to begging for $15. -Brian
dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (08/30/89)
In article <8908281936.AA23048@trout.nosc.mil> orcus@pro-lep.cts.com (Brian Greenstone) writes: >Yep, shareware just doesnt pay off... Ive tried it. Most of the time, that's probably true. I've been *moderately* successful selling some Shareware. A small number of people have been incredibly successful. >[...] also, releasing a game as freeware really >makes people appreciate you as opposed to begging for $15. > >-Brian I definitely object to calling Shareware "begging"--sure, usually you read things like "Please respect the amount of effort I've put into this product, and send in the Shareware fee if you want to see me distribute more stuff this same, low-cost way." Right along with "To use this product legally after N days, send $xyz to: ...." A polite request doesn't mean there is no legal obligation! --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS | P.O. Box 875 AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/31/89)
In article <34409@apple.Apple.COM> dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) writes: >A polite request doesn't mean there is no legal obligation! I thought the "shareware" obligation was solely moral, not legal. It's not covered by contract law. It's not covered by copyright or patent law. It's not covered by tort or criminal law, so far as I can see. Is there a legal obligation?
dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (08/31/89)
In article <10886@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn) writes: >[...] >I thought the "shareware" obligation was solely moral, not legal. >It's not covered by contract law. It's not covered by copyright >or patent law. It's not covered by tort or criminal law, so far >as I can see. Is there a legal obligation? (I'm not a lawyer.) Doesn't a copyright holder have the legal right to specify under what conditions the copyrighted material may be distributed and used? --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS | P.O. Box 875 AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
jib@prism.TMC.COM (08/31/89)
RE:Shareware & Legal obligations
(I am a lawyer, but I am do not practice law and have not researched this
issue)
It is not clear that the obligation to pay for shareware that you use is
legally enforceable, but I tend to think that a court would enforce it.
First of all, I personally SUPPORT the shareware concept and encourage
others to do the same. I only use (after trying) shareware that I have
paid for.
As to legal grounds for support: (1) implied contract -- you knew the
conditions associated with use and accepted them by using the program,
therefore you owe the fee; (2) quantum meruit -- that is, unjust
enrichment, you should not be allowed to benefit from the program unless
you pay for it.
BTW, I doubt that the copyright laws come into play at all. As the author
of a program, you do own it unless you give or sell your rights to it.
This is true whether you register the software with the copyright office
or not. However, the copyright laws themselves DO NOT allow you to
condition use of a program -- but contract law does.
My opinions (and not ones you should rely on as legal advice) only!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Block jib@prism.TMC.COM
{mit-eddie, pyramid, harvard!wjh12, xait, datacube}!mirror!prism!jib
Matthew Bender Inc, 11 Penn Plaza, NY, NY 10001 (212) 216-8018gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/01/89)
In article <34461@apple.Apple.COM> dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) writes: >Doesn't a copyright holder have the legal right to specify under what >conditions the copyrighted material may be distributed and used? Sure, IF the material has properly marked with the Copyright notice. Much, maybe most, shareware that I've seen isn't properly marked.
jason@madnix.UUCP (Jason Blochowiak) (09/01/89)
In an article orcus@pro-lep.cts.com (Brian Greenstone) writes: >Comment to message from Doug Gwyn Btw, Mr. Gwyn: At this point I can't lure anyone with promises of a better version of things, because there aren't any. With Animated Watch, all of the releases after v1.0 were bug fixes, and with the AppleWorks DB viewer, I don't feel like working on anything that has gotten me so small a reward. The only thing that keeps me going at this point is my interest in programming, and the knowledge that what I'm doing is also educational. The most powerful thing I've written (haven't completed it, but it works) is a somewhat sophisticated (11,000+ lines of 65816) programmer's editor for APW, but only about 8 people are using it, including myself. Hopefully, the things I'm working on now are of significant enough caliber to move me out of the ShareWare arena. >Yep, shareware just doesnt pay off... Ive tried it. But I have noticed that >because of all of the FREEWARE games that Ive been writing and using them to >plug my game Xenocide, that Ive been making quite a number of sales that way. >I highly recommend that method and also, releasing a game as freeware really >makes people appreciate you as opposed to begging for $15. Ahem - BEGGING? In my most recent ShareWare release, the message the user sees while using the product informs said user that said user is a thief if said user doesn't pay for the product. I don't think that begging is the appropriate verb. As an aside of sorts, I recieved a moderately large check (greater than the sum of the previous two) for the Animated Watch recently. I'm not sure if it's related to my whine post (if it is, and the sender sees this - thanks, I have written a letter, I just can't find any envelopes having just moved) or not, though. So, I'm a bit less bitter now than when I made my previous post, but I'm still not content... :) I'm just curious as to how you measure the amount of advertising you get from the freeware games. I personally got one of the games, played it for 10 minutes, deleted it, and forgot that there was any connection between you as an author of Xenocide and it... Then again, I'm not much for games. Btw, as for copy protection: I was witness to an interesting spectacle at a user's group awhile back. The user's group was VERY vehemently anti- piracy, but when a heavily copy protected game came out for the machine, it was cracked and _the user's group librarian was passing copies out_! Copy protection is the sort of thing that just gets people angry; it doesn't help much of anything. The pirates nuke the copy protection on things within a month, so they have it. Awhile later, the folks at Central Point come up with parms for Copy ][+, and so the casual users can copy it if they feel like it. So, all in all, not very many people benifit from the copy protection, but resources were used on it that, as others have pointed out, could have been used on something else. >-Brian -- --------8<------------------------------------------------------------8<-------- jason@madnix.UUCP "I am opposed 180 degrees" - George Bush, master mixer of metaphors. (Is the IInix mailing group still out there?)