[comp.sys.apple] ProDOS v1.9

markl@pro-generic.cts.com (Mark Leumanne) (08/24/89)

Network Comment: to #4323 by kermie@pro-lep.cts.com


Hello, I have a suggestion for anyone out there that is willing to write the
next version of ProDOS (?).  When 'BYE' is used, it shouldn't only run System
files, but I feel that ALL files should be able to be run from ProDOS
Bye..Comments?

  ==========::Mark::Leumanne::============  ======::Toronto::Ontario::=====  
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 = UUCP: crash!pro-generic!markl          ==       "Apple ][ forever."     = 
 = ARPA: crash!pro-generic!markl@nosc.mil ==       "Beatles forever."      = 
 = INET: markl@pro-generic.cts.com        ==       "Networking forever."   = 
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 = CD 61 72 6B : CC 65 75 6D 61 6E 6E 65 : CC 6F 76 65 73 : C1 D0 D0 CC C5 =
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dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (08/26/89)

In article <8908241140.AA04329@trout.nosc.mil> markl@pro-generic.cts.com (Mark Leumanne) writes:
>Network Comment: to #4323 by kermie@pro-lep.cts.com
>
>Hello, I have a suggestion for anyone out there that is willing to write the
>next version of ProDOS (?).  When 'BYE' is used, it shouldn't only run System
>files, but I feel that ALL files should be able to be run from ProDOS
>Bye..Comments?

I don't understand.  *ALL* files?  Text files?  Font files?  Spreadsheet files?
How should the system "run" these kinds of files?

 --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc.          |   DAL Systems
   AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS      |   P.O. Box 875
   AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons   |   Cupertino, CA 95015-0875
   GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS         CompuServe: 72177,3233
   Internet/BITNET:  dlyons@apple.com    UUCP:  ...!ames!apple!dlyons

   My opinions are my own, not Apple's.

markl@pro-generic.cts.com (Mark Leumanne) (09/04/89)

Network Comment: to #4363 by dlyons@apple.com

I think I confused alot of people, what  I was saying is, just to make it so
that ProDOS's Bye, would be also be able to run Basic etc. files, you know,
when you type 'BYE' all you can run from there is System files, which is not
good, maybe I am mixing BASIC.SYSTEM with ProDOS, if so, whatever it is,
doesn't anyone agree that All file types (that are 'Run-able') should be able
to be accessed by the BYE?  


  ==========::Mark::Leumanne::============  ======::Toronto::Ontario::=====  
 =                                        ==                               = 
 = UUCP: crash!pro-generic!markl          ==       "Apple ][ forever."     = 
 = ARPA: crash!pro-generic!markl@nosc.mil ==       "Beatles forever."      = 
 = INET: markl@pro-generic.cts.com        ==       "Networking forever."   = 
 =                                        ==                               = 
  ========================================  ===============================  
 = CD 61 72 6B : CC 65 75 6D 61 6E 6E 65 : CC 6F 76 65 73 : C1 D0 D0 CC C5 =
  =========================================================================

dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (09/08/89)

In article <8909070837.AA12730@trout.nosc.mil> markl@pro-generic.cts.com (Mark Leumanne) writes:
>I think I confused alot of people, what  I was saying is, just to make it so
>that ProDOS's Bye, would be also be able to run Basic etc. files, you know,
>when you type 'BYE' all you can run from there is System files, which is not
>good, maybe I am mixing BASIC.SYSTEM with ProDOS, if so, whatever it is,
>doesn't anyone agree that All file types (that are 'Run-able') should be able
>to be accessed by the BYE?  

Yes, you're mixing ProDOS with BASIC.SYSTEM a bit.  BASIC.SYSTEM's "BYE"
command translates directly into a ProDOS "QUIT" call.

The built-in quit handler is compact and only lets you run SYS files, since
these are the only kind of "runnable" file that ProDOS defines.  For it to
run, for example, Applesoft BASIC files, it would have to know what application
to launch (BASIC.SYSTEM); that could be quite a trick, considering it doesn't
know what disk or what subdirectory to look in to find BASIC.SYSTEM, and you
there's no reason you can't change the name of BASIC.SYSTEM to something else.

BIN files are a worse problem, since you can't tell whether they're programs
or not, or what environment they expect to run under.

You might want to investigate "command shells" like ECP 8 (by Don Elton; now
freeware, I believe) and Davex (by me; Shareware).  With a command shell you
never have to deal with "enter prefix/pathname of next application"; instead,
when you quit one application, you're automatically back in the Shell, at a
command prompt.  From there you have quite a few options for launching
various kinds of files.

Other sorts of program selectors are available too, like the one in Glen
Bredon's ProSel package.  (The ProSel selector is mostly menus, rather than
command lines.)

Program selectors are possible because there is a documented way to replace
the "quit code" (the "enter prefix/pathname of next application" deal) with
whatever you want, including a little program to re-load the program selector
from disk.
-- 

 --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc.          |   DAL Systems
   AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS      |   P.O. Box 875
   AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons   |   Cupertino, CA 95015-0875
   GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS         CompuServe: 72177,3233
   Internet/BITNET:  dlyons@apple.com    UUCP:  ...!ames!apple!dlyons

   My opinions are my own, not Apple's.

toth@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US (Joseph G. Toth Jr.) (09/08/89)

In article <8909070837.AA12730@trout.nosc.mil>, markl@pro-generic.cts.com (Mark Leumanne) writes:
> Network Comment: to #4363 by dlyons@apple.com
> 
> I think I confused alot of people, what  I was saying is, just to make it so
> that ProDOS's Bye, would be also be able to run Basic etc. files, you know,
> when you type 'BYE' all you can run from there is System files, which is not
> good, maybe I am mixing BASIC.SYSTEM with ProDOS, if so, whatever it is,
> doesn't anyone agree that All file types (that are 'Run-able') should be able
> to be accessed by the BYE?  
> 

When you are at the BYE prompt that asks for a filename (or in any, I think,
program selector), you can specify 'basic.system <filename>'.  BASIC.SYSTEM
will then perform a '-<filename>' operation to run whatever type of file it
is (Applesoft Basic, BIN file, EXEC text file).

This would almost be perfect except for the fact that when the <filename>
execution completes, you are left in BASIC.SYSTEM and must perform a BYE
command manually.  I guess it's just a personal preference, but it seems
to me that after I run Kermit (launching it as I described), I should
return immediately to the area from which BASIC.SYSTEM was launched. 
Maybe BASIC.SYSTEM could be modified to 'remember' whether it was launched
with a filename, and then perfome the BYE automatically when the executed
file terminates (any hackers out there have a patch to do this??).

-- 
------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Maybe I shouldn't have done it, sarcasm is so   | Joseph G. Toth Jr.
seldom understood.  Don't FLAME on me, please.  | uunet!tellab5!toth

emerrill@tippy.uucp (09/09/89)

/* Written  8:47 am  Sep  4, 1989 by markl@pro-generic.cts.com in tippy:apple */
>doesn't anyone agree that All file types (that are 'Run-able') should 
>be able to be accessed by the BYE?

No.  That's what program selector's are for.  Why try to add a program
selector to Prodos?  Not everybody would want a built-in selector.  
What would probably work best for you is ProSEL. (plug, plug)  :-)


  _________________________________________________________
 |                                                         |
 |  Eric Merrill  tippy!emerrill@newton.physics.purdue.edu |
 |                                                         |
 |   Disclaimer:                                           |
 |     If you think I'm serious, that's your problem!      |
 |_________________________________________________________|

jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John M. Adams) (09/09/89)

Is Bird's Better Bye PD/Freeware/Shareware?  I've not bee able to find it
at any of the sites I frequent via FTP (namely:  HUSC6, Columbia, Uky,
or [35.1.1.43])  Can anyone help out? 
--
Internet: jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu         (BSD Unix)  | John Adams   _   /|
  -or-    vladimir@oak.circa.ufl.edu    (VMS  Vax)  |              \`0_o''
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | University     ( )  oop
"You ever danced with the devil in pale moonlight?" | of Florida      U    ack

dlyons@Apple.COM (David Lyons) (09/09/89)

In article <1572@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US> toth@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US (Joseph G. Toth Jr.) writes:
>[...]
>When you are at the BYE prompt that asks for a filename (or in any, I think,
>program selector), you can specify 'basic.system <filename>'.  BASIC.SYSTEM
>will then perform a '-<filename>' operation to run whatever type of file it
>is (Applesoft Basic, BIN file, EXEC text file). [...]

BASIC.SYSTEM has the capability you describe (accepts a startup path specifying
what to execute in place of STARTUP), but the built-in ProDOS "enter prefix"
and "enter pathname" jobber won't even let you type a Space (it just beeps).
-- 

 --Dave Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc.          |   DAL Systems
   AppleLink--Apple Edition: DAVE.LYONS      |   P.O. Box 875
   AppleLink--Personal Edition: Dave Lyons   |   Cupertino, CA 95015-0875
   GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS         CompuServe: 72177,3233
   Internet/BITNET:  dlyons@apple.com    UUCP:  ...!ames!apple!dlyons

   My opinions are my own, not Apple's.

mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (09/10/89)

Network Comment: to #10328 by dlyons@apple.com



Dave Lyons writes:

> BASIC.SYSTEM has the capability you describe (accepts a startup 
> path specifying what to execute in place of STARTUP), but the 
{> built-in ProDOS "enter prefix" and "enter pathname" jobber won't 
> even let you type a Space (it just beeps).
--

Do you know when a fix to BASIC.SYSTEM v1.3 will be available?

--Mark Munz

greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (09/11/89)

>In article <8909070837.AA12730@trout.nosc.mil>, markl@pro-generic.cts.com (Mark Leumanne) writes:
>> Network Comment: to #4363 by dlyons@apple.com
>> 
>> I think I confused alot of people, what  I was saying is, just to make it so
>> that ProDOS's Bye, would be also be able to run Basic etc. files, you know,
>> when you type 'BYE' all you can run from there is System files, which is not
>> good, maybe I am mixing BASIC.SYSTEM with ProDOS, if so, whatever it is,
>> doesn't anyone agree that All file types (that are 'Run-able') should be able
>> to be accessed by the BYE?  
>> 

One of the big advantages that the prodos system offers is that on small 
disks (5 1/4, 64K ramdisks) you don't need to waste space with parts
of the operating system you won't be using.  This frees up over 25K
per disk I believe.  If you're not going to boot from the disk you
don't need Prodos, if you're not going to use basic on the disk you don't
waste the space.

Under DOS 3.3 if you wanted the extra space on the disk and decided not
to boot from it in order to eke out those extra few sectors you ran a
special program for it.  In Prodos you just:

DELETE PRODOS
DELETE BASIC.SYSTEM

Providing you with a disk with 273 blocks / 136.5 K available.
---
Michael J Pender Jr  Box 1942 c/o W.P.I.        I wrote SHELL and Daemon,
greyelf@wpi.bitnet   100 Institute Rd.          send bug reports, suggestions,
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu  Worcester, Ma 01609        checks to me.