mj0i+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Marquis Eugene Jones) (08/11/89)
I'd like to add my two pennies about dealers....
First, Apple may honestly not want to nix the Apple II line, but dealers go
to great efforts to push people toward Macs. Now, I'm in Palo Alto right
now and I talked to a couple of dealers trying to get some honest answers
to why they do this. Answers ranged from "Progress...", to "Apple II's are
for kids...". One particular answer which interested me was "Apple II's
didn't really make Apple, Inc. the giant it is today, the macs did by
their penetration of the business market (IBM's turf). Thus, it is more
in my interest to push people to a more powerful and widely accepted (at
least in business) platform." He did admit to selling GS's to people
who wanted a second computer for their kids (under 16), in hopes that
they will be prepared for a more owerful machine like the Mac IIcx. Then,
like all good salesmen, he went off on a sales pitch for the IIcx for me.
Statements like these (off the record of course), bother me as I'm sure it
does most people that read this board. Though Apple itself may not kill
the II line, it's dealer sure are putting a strangle hold/death grip on
it.
Marquis Jones
-------------
"Byte Knight"
mj0i+@andrew.cmu.edu
"Disclaimer? CMU doesn't NEED disclaimers! "
- Unknown, KGBabc@BRL.MIL (Brinton Cooper) (08/11/89)
I suppose that Apple Dealers will promote the line with the largest profit margin. Do we blame them for that? Isn't it the God of the Free Marketplace that our High Priests have led us to worship for the past 8 or 9 years? Of course, this need not spell the death of the II line. Apple could 1. increase retail prices on the II to increase dealer profit; but who would buy a II-GS that begins to cost more than a Mac? 2. decrease retail prices on the Mac to decrease dealer profit; there are a couple of possibilities: a. Macs outsell IIs even faster because they've become cheaper; b. Apple takes too long to recoup its investment in the R&D of the various Mac products and ceases to be a viable competitor in the market. Your choice, Folks. _B
stern@navajo.cis.ohio-state.edu (jeffrey a stern) (08/12/89)
My guess is that Apple Dealers push people toward Macs and away from
//gs's for one reason above all others: greater profit margin.
When I used to sell Fords, if a person was thinking about either a truck or
a car, we'd push them towards a truck. The difference was about $2000
more in profit.
If anyone has any solid info on Apple dealers' profit margins on gs's
and Macs in order to confirm or deny this, I'd be interested. Jeff.
-=-
stern@cis.ohio-state.edu: Internet | "Eppur si muove." |
osu-cis!tut!stern : UUCP | -Galileo |:->{===#
72647,1527 : CompuServe | ` /jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") (08/14/89)
One thing to try is to talk to service people and technicians. These are the people who seem to know about what's what. I phone call to these guys before you show up to an Authorized Dealer may make the difference, as the sales people have always been no-nothing bozos in my experience. I managed to get a friend of mine to have his first generation //c upgraded to Unidisk capability for no charge by talking first to a member of the service staff. Don't even deal with the salesmen except to say "Fred the technician sent me.." Going to the same place on a weekend to ask for a copy of GS/OS, a bozoid from outer space whose neck twitched and breath stank told me that I would have to pay for the upgrade. Telling him this wasn't true got a response that the place was about to close and that I should leave. He said that I might try the service department on Monday. I felt like shooting the putz. The moral? Call the techies first. They're paid to have superior minds than salesmen. jeremy mereness ============= "A car in every pot; a chicken in every garage" jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arpanet) r746jm7e@CMCCVB (vax.... Bitnet)
shankar@damavand.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Subash Shankar) (09/12/89)
Well, there have been lots of complaints about Apple dealers not knowing how, or reluctant to allow free copies of System updates, so I decided to do something about it, and compile a list of dealers. So if anybody would like to add a dealer to either a "good-guys" or "bad-guys" list, please mail me the dealer name and their update policy. I'll compile the list and post results in a couple of weeks - right now, I just know about some local Minneapolis dealers. Now's your chance to get back at those know-nothing Apple retailers. --- Subash Shankar Honeywell Systems & Research Center voice: (612) 782 7558 US Snail: 3660 Technology Dr., Minneapolis, MN 55418 shankar@src.honeywell.com srcsip!shankar
JDA@NIHCU.BITNET (Doug Ashbrook) (09/12/89)
I had no problems getting free upgrades for either system 5.0 or 4.0 from ComputerLand Mid-Atlantic (Clinton Computer) in Rockville, MD. ==================================================================== J. Douglas Ashbrook (301) 496-5181 BITNET: JDA@NIHCU <-- preferred address INTERNET: JDA@CU.NIH.GOV or jda%nihcu.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu National Institutes of Health, Computer Center, Bethesda, MD 20892 -+- Remember. If some weirdo in a blue suit offers you some MS-DOS, JUST SAY NO!
ALBRO@NIEHS.BITNET (09/13/89)
Add ABComputer in Raleigh, NC to your list of good guys. They were having problems with their IIgs when I came in , so they loaned me 5.0 to copy at home. Trust from a dealer is hard to find.
KMILES@CC.USU.EDU ("Kurt Miles, VAX Consultant") (09/13/89)
I had no problems getting free upgrades for either system 5.0 or 4.0 from Alpine Computing in Logan, Utah. They have also been willing to provide the upgrades I thought I needed (I already had them, but I didn't know that). I commend them. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kurt Miles | GreyMan ------> and the <----- DRAGON KMILES@USU (Bitnet) | ...... remember, sometimes the DRAGON wins! KMILES@CC.USU.EDU (Internet) | ------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doctoral Student in Instructional Technology at Utah State University "Dissertation? Doesn't that come after dinner? I like strawberry shortcake" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
gt0t+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Gregory Ross Thompson) (09/13/89)
Is Apples policy free upgrade for just the software for System 5.0, and
$49.95 for the package with manuals?
I called up the nearest dealer, and asked them if they had it. The guy said
yeah, and that it was normally $49.95, but they had a mega-dicsount for $39.95.
I said "Well, isn't the software upgrade free?" The guy responded with
something to the effect of, If you bought the computer from us, you get a copy
of the new one if you bring in your own disks. I almost jumped down the guy's
throat, but I resasoned with him, and he eventually said that as long as I used
my disks, I could get just the software, but I really needed the manuals. I
hate it when sales-people underestimate my knowledge. He then proceeded to
say that AWGS doesn't work with System 5.0. Is this true?
I'm gonna go to this place on Sat. and check 'em out. I'll post whether or
not to add 'em to your list. I don't remember the name of the place, but it's
in down town Pittsburgh.
-Greg T.max@lgc.UUCP (Max Heffler @ Landmark Graphics) (09/13/89)
I had no problems getting free upgrade for system 5.0 from ComputerCraft Houston. -- Max Heffler uucp: ..!uunet!lgc!max Landmark Graphics Corp. phone: (713) 579-4751 333 Cypress Run, Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77094
lbotez@pnet02.gryphon.com (Lynda Botez) (09/14/89)
If there is possibly someone on this net that still DOES NOT have System Disk
5.0 (could this be possible???)...
You can get it from A2.Central as the September Disk of the Month.
Of course, you will have to subscribe.
Lynda
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <routing site>}!gryphon!pnet02!lbotez
INET: lbotez@pnet02.gryphon.comlhaider@pro-sol.cts.com (Lawrence Haider) (09/14/89)
Network Comment: to #11060 by gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu > I called up the nearest dealer, and asked them if they had it. The >guy said yeah, and that it was normally $49.95, but they had a mega-dicsount >for $39.95. I said "Well, isn't the software upgrade free?" The guy responded >with something to the effect of, If you bought the computer from us, you get a >copy of the new one if you bring in your own disks. I almost jumped down the >guy's throat, but I resasoned with him, and he eventually said that as long as >I used my disks, I could get just the software, but I really needed the >manuals. I hate it when sales-people underestimate my knowledge. He then >proceeded to say that AWGS doesn't work with System 5.0. Is this true? > > I'm gonna go to this place on Sat. and check 'em out. I'll post whether or >not to add 'em to your list. I don't remember the name of the place, but it's >in down town Pittsburgh. Well that didn't come out right. Anyway, I get the feeling that this salesman doesn't know what he's talking about (actually I'm sure of it). Apple System Software 5.0 (GS/OS 3.0) is, according to Apple, is available for copying for free if you bring in your original system disk and two blanks; and no you really don't _need_ the manuals if you at all familiar with GS/OS. Remember, Apple tries to make things easy to use. It's not quite like getting MS-DOS upgrades that require you memorize volumes of commands. Lastly, AWGS not only works under GS/OS 3.0, it actually becomes _usable_! You will be amazed at how much faster it works; kinda like having an speed-up board for free! Go see you dealer, find out who you talked to, and give him hell! >:O Then take you copy home, install it (hopefully) in your hard drive, and enjoy :) Laer INET: lhaider@pro-sol.cts.com
sschneider@pro-exchange.cts.com (The RainForest BBS) (09/15/89)
Comment to message from: gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) That's similar to the Apple dealer that =INSISTED= I had to buy CATALYST with my Apple 3.5 drive for the //e... It'd be nice if Apple paid a little more attention to the intelligence (and credentials) of the dealers that represent them.... /steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | UUCP: crash!pro-exchange!sschneider COMPU$ERVE : 75166,2544 | | ARPA: crash!pro-exchange!sschneider@nosc.mil GENIE : sschneider | | INET: sschneider@pro-exchange.cts.com * My son is a Georgia Tech freshman | | I work for Xerox Corporation for decent bucks but dream of Palto Alto RC | | The RainForest @ 305-434-4927 / PO Box 841422, Pembroke Pines, Fl, 33084 | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
emerrill@tippy.uucp (09/16/89)
/* Written 9:40 pm Sep 13, 1989 by lbotez@pnet02 in tippy:apple */ >If there is possibly someone on this net that still DOES NOT have System Disk >5.0 (could this be possible???)... > >You can get it from A2.Central as the September Disk of the Month. And the tools disk will be on the October disk. I think this is nice for A2 subscribers who own GS's and don't have the new software, but what about all the GS owners who already have it and all the other // owners who couldn't care less? I'm paying $4.67 for each of these disks, so I'm really throwing close to $10 down the drain. I won't be a disk subscriber for long if they pull this stunt again... _________________________________________________________ | | | Eric Merrill tippy!emerrill@newton.physics.purdue.edu | | | | Disclaimer: | | If you think I'm serious, that's your problem! | |_________________________________________________________|
gt0t+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Gregory Ross Thompson) (09/18/89)
Well, I went to the Computer Store of Pittsburgh, and I was quite suprised.
Over the phone I was told that I could only update if I had bought my compuer
there. Well... I went in, told them what I wanted, they handed me two disks,
and said "Use the computer up front, it's got 2 drives. So I got it no hassle.
What REALLY suprised me, was the guy I talked to after I had copied it. He
was their Apple // person, and actually knew what he was talking about. We
chatted about various word processors for AppleTalk, and things like that, and
I decided to show him Nucleus. He flipped and asked for a copy, so I gave him
one. Now, they have a new window display. I think I'll go back there and buy
Multiscribe GS as soon as I get the dough. Whoever was compiling the list, put
this place on the good side. It's on Smithfield St. in down town Pittsburgh.
Greg T.