winch@hpihoah.HP.COM (Bill Winchester) (09/29/89)
I got up Saturday morning (9/23), grabbed two teachers (one of them was my wife ;-) ) and drove to Applefest in San Francisco. The first thing I noticed was that computer hacks like me got clear plastic badge holders and educators got yellow tinted badge holders. Is this new? Anyway, in we went to the exhibits accompanied by a sea of yellow badged educators. Lets see, Apple, Applied Engineering, Incider, Wordperfect, Applied Ingenuity, Macintosh.......MACINTOSH!! What the... Hey! Wait a just a darn minute. Now Mac's might be good computers, might even be better computers, but I'm prejudiced. That right I'm prejudiced against Mac's. I've been using an Apple II since 1980 so I'm partial to my GS, ESPECIALLY AT THE COMPUTER SHOW THATS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR APPLE II'S. This is not a logical issue, its an emotional one. APPLE TAKE YOUR MACS AND SHOVE THEM UP.... Wait, calm down... There I feel better. No.. Mayhaps I don't. Claris isn't here and APDA isn't selling stuff! I bet I'm not the only Apple II user that feels betrayed by apple. I also bet that the marketing types at apple don't understand that this is an emotional issue to us, not a technical or logical one. That's probably a mistake on their part. A mistake that could cost Apple a whole bunch of current users if this trend continues. I'm not a marketing type, so I don't know if this is true. The company (HP) I work for is even in on this. They had a booth. They were hawking our neat laser and color ink jet printers. When I asked them about an interface for the GS (I kinda new the answer), they said that our stuff would only interface to the (you guessed it) MACS. :-( I bought an Applied Engineering Transwarp_GS. What a great product!! Relatively easy to install and it DOES make a difference. When I bought my 1st Apple (Apple II+) back in 1980, I sat right down and wrote an Applesoft Basic program to rotate a truncated cube ( with : deltas for rotation coming from the joystick, page flipping, hidden line ). I worked for Adage, Inc. from 1965-1968 and learned the algorithms there..., but I digress. Anyway, I tried this old program ( written on a 1 mhz machine ) on my IIgs with the transwarp card set at transwarp speed. I couldn't believe my eyes, this thing really screams. Well, by the time we left I began to feel better about the future of Apple II's. Not because of Apple or Claris, but in spite of them. Companys like Applied Engineering, Applied Ingenuity, Zip Technologies, Roger Wagner Publishing, and the educational software companies were even enthusiastic. My wife even felt good about Applefest. She talked to some educators who were promoting their software for teaching English. She expected to see more hackers like me than educators. She won. I won. Well, better times next year! Bill Winchester
lvirden@pro-tcc.UUCP (Larry Virden) (09/30/89)
Network Comment: to #582 by hp-ses!hpcuhb!hpihoah!winch@hplabs.hp.com Bill, I take it you are NEW to the Apple scene? I mean, for two years Apple has been TRYING to push Macs at the only Apple connected festival in the country for Apple IIs and each time folks are a) shocked to see them, b) outraged that they would be infringed upon, and c) moved to violence, terrorism, or at least harrassment...
chines@pro-europa.cts.com (Clifford Hines) (09/30/89)
Comment to message from: hp-ses!hpcuhb!hpihoah!winch@hplabs.hp.com (Bill Winchester) That is a great feeling. But I have to wonder out loud, how long can Apple support 2 different computers. The Mac is for business and some home use as well as the schools. The Apple II is a home computer,some business,mostly schools type computer. I am going into desktop publishing (I hope.) and I don't see Postscript type desktop programs for the IIGS or insanely great page-layout programs for the IIGS(or any other II.) like Pagemaker or Quark express. I still use my IIe for some home use,but I am slowly realizing that I will need power in the future that the II series does not have a lot of. This is just what I feel. I know some others don't care about the Mac. But the MS-DOS world is just as bad. Cliff UUCP: crash!pro-europa!chines ARPA: crash!pro-europa!chines@nosc.mil INET: chines@pro-europa.cts.com
lvirden@pro-tcc.UUCP (Larry Virden) (10/02/89)
Network Comment: to #616 by chines@pro-europa.cts.com
Note that other computer companies have a variety of machines. Some offer
ranges of 8088 thru 80386. Others, like DEC have differing CPUs. Also,
same thing with Sun. Commodore has several cpus, as does Tandy. So Apple
isnt doing anything unusual.
Larry W. Virden ProLine: pro-tcc!lvirden
674 Falls Place Work: lvirden@cas.bitnet
Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614 Aline: LVIRDEN
CIS: 75046,606mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (10/02/89)
In article <4640010@hpihoah.HP.COM> winch@hpihoah.HP.COM (Bill Winchester) writes: > >No.. Mayhaps I don't. Claris isn't here and APDA isn't selling stuff! > I know this won't make you feel any better, but the fact that APDA was not selling anything has nothing to do with the fact that you were at an Apple II conference. APDA has decided not to take orders at any large conference-- witness Boston MacWorld, where APDA did not sell anything but memberships. -- Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (10/02/89)
Network Comment: to #11127 by chines@pro-europa.cts.com > That is a great feeling. But I have to wonder out loud, how long can App > support 2 different computers. The Mac is for business and some home use > well as the schools. The Apple II is a home computer,some business,mostl > schools type computer. I am going into desktop publishing (I hope.) and > don't see Postscript type desktop programs for the IIGS or insanely grea > page-layout programs for the IIGS(or any other II.) like Pagemaker or Qu > express. I still use my IIe for some home use,but I am slowly realizing > will need power in the future that the II series does not have a lot of. > This is just what I feel. I know some others don't care about the Mac. B > MS-DOS world is just as bad. > Cliff That's proof that different computers fit different needs. The IIGS is definitely not in the desktop publishing market (at least not yet). However, you are not going to get the color and graphics that get from the IIGS with a Mac or IBM unless you've got MAJOR bucks. And it goes beyond just the hardware, the software is more expensive as well. You could almost buy a IIGS CPU for the cost of PageMaker or Quark Express. I think that says it all. --Mark Munz
winch@hpihoah.HP.COM (Bill Winchester) (10/02/89)
lvirden@pro-tcc.UUCP (Larry Virden) writes: >Bill, I take it you are NEW to the Apple scene? I mean, for two years >Apple has been TRYING to push Macs at the only Apple connected festival >in the country for Apple IIs and each time folks are a) shocked to see >them, b) outraged that they would be infringed upon, and c) moved to >violence, terrorism, or at least harrassment... >---------- I'm not really new to the Apple scene, just very infrequent. :-( I spend most of my bandwidth trying to make HP high end computers even more supportable than they already are. I sorry if I wasted net bandwidth with my tirade.
phack@pnet02.gryphon.com (Phil Hackett) (10/03/89)
Wait and check out the new Graphicwriter III. I saw it at Applefest and it
will be a good page layout program. I have the old version and love it, except
for the bombings (it was written before there were GS standards for programs).
You may be surprised at the power of the GS yet!
Phil
(I don't know where this is coming from.....)
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <routing site>}!gryphon!pnet02!phack
INET: phack@pnet02.gryphon.comSEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (10/05/89)
On Mon, 2 Oct 89 15:12:47 GMT you said: >I'm not really new to the Apple scene, just very infrequent. :-( >I spend most of my bandwidth trying to make HP high end computers even >more supportable than they already are. > >I sorry if I wasted net bandwidth with my tirade. ALL thoughtful comments welcome :-) If the occasional new voice doesn't speak up, it's easy for Apple's management to conclude that only a handful of noisy malcontents are complaining. It IS known that <ahem> "appropriate summaries" of messages posted to info-apple are delivered to "senior management" (presumably Sculley, Glasee, etc.) at Apple. Hence, your feelings, possibly specifically because they are more representative of Apple's broader market, are likely to arrive on a desk where they might have some impact. Murph Sewall Vaporware? ---> [Gary Larson returns 1/1/90] Prof. of Marketing Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET Business School sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu [INTERNET] U of Connecticut {psuvax1 or mcvax }!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL [UUCP] (203) 486-5246 [FAX] (203) 486-2489 [PHONE] 41 49N 72 15W [ICBM] The opposite of artificial intelligence is genuine stupidity! -+- I don't speak for my employer, though I frequently wish that I could (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited)