SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") (09/28/88)
Hokay folks. I have heard enough from people that use it that I would like
some answers from _THOSE WHO KNOW_
First, what is the user impression of GS/OS? Is it worth driving all over
the city to find a dealer with a copy? How 'bout the manuals for the fledgling
developer?
Second question, can it handle the CMS SCSI card, in terms of booting from
it. I have two 32 meg volumes set up that I am quite happy with, thank you. I
don't need partitioning, just accessibility.
Third, has there been any incompatibilities with Davex, my favorite command
shell (plug plug plug :-))
And finally, how much space is this critter going to take?
On a related note, the idea of replacing the processor in the GS with AE's
accelerator seems like a sound one. If they could pack a numeric coprocessor
into it as well as ~10Mhz, this would make the machine fly...
BTW, I also am interested in the // technotes mentioned at the end of the
summer. Are these going to hit netland any day soon? (Keith?)
Thanks in advance...
Scott
bitnet: SELLSWOR@HMCVAXkeith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (10/01/88)
In article <8809302002.aa26185@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") writes: > > BTW, I also am interested in the // technotes mentioned at the end of the >summer. Are these going to hit netland any day soon? (Keith?) > Honest to Gawd, they're in their final stages. At least, the GS ones are. They should be released first, quickly to be followed by the updated versions of the rest. As for whether or not they'll be on the net...I don't know. I'll try everything I can to get them up, but Apple Legal and Licensing don't like Official Apple Goodies loaded onto electronic services without a distribution license. Since there is no moderator of any of the comp.sys.apple newsgroups, there is no one to sign a distribution agreement. Why is a distribution license necessary? Well, there's a feeling that someone needs to be responsible for the information. These documents have Apple's name on them, and Apple wouldn't like it if someone were to take the technotes, change them, and re-upload them as the real thing. I think that this is a very unlikely situation, but we have to have our a**es covered. anyway, this issue isn't final. I have a feeling that we'll get them up here some way or another.... Keith Rollin amdahl\ Developer Technical Support pyramid!sun !apple!keith Apple Computer decwrl/ "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
nelson@dad.UUCP (Paul Nelson) (10/04/88)
in article <8809302002.aa26185@SMOKE.BRL.MIL>, SELLSWORTH@HMCVAX.BITNET ("Scott, part time fuzzy") says: > First, what is the user impression of GS/OS? Is it worth driving all over > the city to find a dealer with a copy? ... > > Second question, can it handle the CMS SCSI card, in terms of booting from > it. I have two 32 meg volumes set up that I am quite happy with, thank you. I just got GS/OS working on my machine with a 60M CMS hard drive with the CMS SCSI card. It works just fine with the two volumes. I was very pleased with the performance improvement as well. The finder is much improved when it comes to copying files around. You get Mac style thermometer indicators showing progress at copying. All my NDAs work fine and also the sysbeep stuff from Guy Rice. (You get a different display when booting GS/OS and Guy's little sysbeep message doesn't show up, but the beep is there!). One thing that is much faster is switching disks (using the disk button) in the standard file operations dialogs. GS/OS finds the next disk many times faster! I also like the fact that I can ignore the 5.25 drive. Before GS/OS, I couldn't stand having prodos and the finder look at the stupid thing. I would unplug it, but had to keep reconnecting it for my kids (the only thing the 5.25 is good for). The disk cacheing is another new feature that is nice. You control it from an NDA that allows you to set the amount of memory used for the cache (from 0 to 1Meg ). However, I can't figure out how the system remembers the cache size. It seems to stash it in battery ram (just a guess) as I set it to 256K when I booted from 3.5 floppy one time, and when I booted from my hard drive later, it was still 256K (I think I had the power off in between, but dont really remember). I would like to be able to boot off a 3.5 floppy with a large cache, and use a smaller cache when I boot from my hard disk. I don't know how to do this yet. I would have to say that GS/OS is worth getting. Before I used it, I wasn't sure that even a faster processor clock would get the GS going at a reasonable speed, but now the GS is much more responsive. I haven't seen AE's transwarp board yet but I'll bet a GS with GS/OS and a higher clock speed will be really nice, and should quiet alot of the slowness complaints. I got no documemtation for GS/OS except a rehash of the stuff that came with system disk 3.2. I'm not sure what documentation is available. APDA product descriptions are now so befuddled with all those APW options that I can't figure it out! ( you can now get update version 1.0.2 for APW and APW C, which are supposed to support GS/OS interfaces ). The only way to get the right stuff is to call APDA, tell them what you have and ask them what you need. The APDA number is 1-800-527-7562. Of course the membership is $20 and you don't get any support if you are not a certified developer. Paul Nelson ...tikal!dad!nelson
arenberg@trwrb.UUCP (Jeff Arenberg) (10/05/88)
I receive my copy of GS/OS from APDA yesterday but when I tried to boot from the 3.5" drive, a message was presented on the screen stating that I needed ROM version 01. I am somewhat confused about this, as I did get a ROM upgrade sometime ago (6-8 months?). Apparently, it wasn't the 01 upgrade. So, my questions are : 1) When did the new upgrade become available? 2) How can I tell what ROM version I currently have? I've already called a few dealers about the ROM and while none had it in stock, they all claimed to be getting some in a week or two. 3) Does anyone know of a dealer in LA that has the ROMs in stock? Thanks much, Jeff Arenberg ------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP : ( ucbvax, ihnp4, uscvax ) !trwrb!csed-pyramid!arenberg GEnie: shifty -------------------------------------------------------------
craparotta@kyoa.DEC.COM (Physical T5--Virtual T7) (10/05/88)
Dave, Please note that with GS/OS there is a NEW directory called "DRIVERS". This is where you must put the drivers from the second disk into. Apple came out with numerous drivers for this reason and so if someone wanted to write one it can beput in here. I have a CMS 60meg running GS/OS with no problems. Other than not being able to take advantage of the partioning software right now. Note also that you can now format your smart port 3.5" disk with a 2:1 partition. This helps speed up the disk access/read/write.. Although GS/OS was a long time coming it sorta helps me to believe Apples commitment to the // line. I hope they let Keith and all our other FRIENDS in the // side of Apple to really do some great stuff..... Joe
prw@meccsd.MECC.MN.ORG (Paul R. Wenker) (10/06/88)
In article <8810051206.AA08097@decwrl.dec.com> craparotta@kyoa.DEC.COM (Physical T5--Virtual T7) writes: >Please note that with GS/OS there is a NEW directory called "DRIVERS". This is The drivers directory has always existed, but until now it had only been used for printer and port drivers. -Paul Wenker prw@meccsd.MECC.MN.ORG -MECC, Technical Services
shankar@src.honeywell.COM (Subash Shankar) (10/07/88)
Does anybody know what the benefits of the disk caching NDA under GS/OS? I have tried several different values for the cache size, but all of them (including 0K) seem to have the same performance when I tested their speeds at disk copying. The same disk copying, when run with the Applied Engineering GS/RAM cache, runs significantly faster. So what is the NDA cache used for?
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (10/07/88)
In article <826@csed-pyramid.trwrb.UUCP> arenberg@csed-pyramid.UUCP (Jeff Arenberg) writes: >I receive my copy of GS/OS from APDA yesterday but when I tried to boot >from the 3.5" drive, a message was presented on the screen stating that I >needed ROM version 01. I am somewhat confused about this, as I did get a >ROM upgrade sometime ago (6-8 months?). Apparently, it wasn't the 01 >upgrade. So, my questions are : > >1) When did the new upgrade become available? > >2) How can I tell what ROM version I currently have? > >I've already called a few dealers about the ROM and while none had it in >stock, they all claimed to be getting some in a week or two. > >3) Does anyone know of a dealer in LA that has the ROMs in stock? > The ROM upgrade became available around June of 87. However, GS's that were manufactured after January of 87 had the new (Rev 01) ROMs in them. You can tell if you have the new ROMs as the startup text screen identifies the ROM as such with an explicit message; it says ROM 01 right at the bottom. I don't know what dealers in LA have the ROMs in stock, but when you do find one, keep in mind that the upgrade is FREE. As for what ROMs you DID get when you had your machine upgraded, I don't know. Apple has had only 1 Apple IIGS ROM upgrade program, and that was for the 01 ROMs. Keith Rollin UUCP: amdahl\ Developer Technical Support pyramid!sun !apple!keith Apple Computer decwrl/ BITNET: keith%apple.com@relay.cs.net "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (10/07/88)
shankar@src.honeywell.COM (Subash Shankar) writes: >Does anybody know what the benefits of the disk caching NDA under GS/OS? >I have tried several different values for the cache size, but all of them >(including 0K) seem to have the same performance when I tested their speeds >at disk copying. The same disk copying, when run with the Applied Engineering >GS/RAM cache, runs significantly faster. So what is the NDA cache used for? As you know, disk caching involves keeping the blocks recently read in memory for later use, and juggling them such that old blocks are replaced by new blocks. [In some cases, old means the "usage" counter is lower and it hasn't been in the buffer for a certain number of accesses.] When you access files and directories, the file and directory sectors are placed in the cache. Any re-reads of these blocks will come from the cache and not from the disk. Any writes modify the cache copy and, in turn, are immediately output to the disk. This is known as a write-through cache. It preserves disk integrity and allows disk copying without removing the cache. When you copy a disk, you access blocks that are probably not in the cache. You start at block zero and work your way up to block 1599 (with an 800k disk). Previous cached blocks are replaced by the huge number of newly read blocks, thus the chances that a disk copy will access normal file and directory blocks before they're "aged" out of the buffer is rather low. When you write to the target disk, there is no time saved. The write HAS to occur, whether the cache is invoked or not. The cache is designed to speed up reading blocks that are accessed often. If you had your cache set to }isay 800k and then accessed your drive a lot, and then copied the current disk in the drive, I would guess there's a good chance it might be a bit faster when reading from the source disk. UUCP: {rosevax, crash}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com
shawn@pnet51.cts.com (Shawn Stanley) (10/07/88)
arenberg@trwrb.UUCP (Jeff Arenberg) writes: >I receive my copy of GS/OS from APDA yesterday but when I tried to boot >from the 3.5" drive, a message was presented on the screen stating that I >needed ROM version 01. I am somewhat confused about this, as I did get a >ROM upgrade sometime ago (6-8 months?). Apparently, it wasn't the 01 >upgrade. So, my questions are : > >1) When did the new upgrade become available? > >2) How can I tell what ROM version I currently have? I received my ROM version 01 upgrade in December. My local dealer had to obtain an order for the chips first, but I made an apointment and had it done within a week. If you have ROM version 01, it becomes obvious when you boot the machine up. The initial screen appears in 80 columns, and the bottom line of the display reads "... ROM version 01..." or something similar. UUCP: {rosevax, crash}!orbit!pnet51!shawn INET: shawn@pnet51.cts.com
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (10/08/88)
In article <9773@srcsip.UUCP> shankar@ely.UUCP (Subash Shankar) writes: >Does anybody know what the benefits of the disk caching NDA under GS/OS? >I have tried several different values for the cache size, but all of them >(including 0K) seem to have the same performance when I tested their speeds >at disk copying. The same disk copying, when run with the Applied Engineering >GS/RAM cache, runs significantly faster. So what is the NDA cache used for? The GS/OS RAM cache is for the most recently and most frequently used blocks read from disk. Since you are reading each block only once, the benefits of a cache are not achieved; this is NOT a READ AHEAD cache. Keith Rollin UUCP: amdahl\ Developer Technical Support pyramid!sun !apple!keith Apple Computer decwrl/ BITNET: keith%apple.com@relay.cs.net "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
c60c-3aw@web-3d.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) (10/08/88)
In article <18409@apple.Apple.COM> keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes: >In article <9773@srcsip.UUCP> shankar@ely.UUCP (Subash Shankar) writes: >>Does anybody know what the benefits of the disk caching NDA under GS/OS? [stuff removed] >The GS/OS RAM cache is for the most recently and most frequently used blocks >read from disk. Since you are reading each block only once, the benefits of >a cache are not achieved; this is NOT a READ AHEAD cache. >Keith Rollin UUCP: amdahl\ [we all know what his .signature looks like] I get the impression it doesn't do the "read entire track" trick that Diversi-Cache uses... if not, why not? -- fadden@zen.berkeley.edu [crashed] c60c-3aw@widow.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden)
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (10/10/88)
In article <15161@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60c-3aw@web-3d.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) writes: >In article <18409@apple.Apple.COM> keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes: >>In article <9773@srcsip.UUCP> shankar@ely.UUCP (Subash Shankar) writes: >>>Does anybody know what the benefits of the disk caching NDA under GS/OS? >[stuff removed] > >>The GS/OS RAM cache is for the most recently and most frequently used blocks >>read from disk. Since you are reading each block only once, the benefits of >>a cache are not achieved; this is NOT a READ AHEAD cache. > >I get the impression it doesn't do the "read entire track" trick that >Diversi-Cache uses... if not, why not? > It may be an indication of things to come. As you may have heard, GS/OS supports files that have "data" and "resource" forks. A data fork is just like the data in files that we all know and love, and resource forks are like a database of small bits of information associated with every file. On the Macintosh, we found that the best type of cache to implement was the kind described above. This was becuse most access to the disk were for these small resources. Each resource is typically less than a block long. Therefore, the assumption that Diversi-Cache makes that all of the information on the track is going to be needed is incorrect. By caching just the blocks needed, we get better performance. Now, this certainly isn't currently true for GS/OS, but it might be in the future. I think that the GS/OS engineers were just thinking ahead. Keith Rollin UUCP: amdahl\ Developer Technical Support pyramid!sun !apple!keith Apple Computer decwrl/ BITNET: keith%apple.com@relay.cs.net "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
FRANK@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA (03/02/89)
I do not personally own a GS but a couple of guys in my office do and there appears to be some confusion concerning what operating system they have. They are not sure which operating system they have and would like to know how to identify GS/OS (as opposed to Prodos 16?). Is there a log on banner that specifically identifies GS/OS? Any help will be passed along and will be appreciated. Please reply direct. Joe -------
jschober@gnh-starport.UUCP (Joey Schober) (03/07/89)
I've been following the conversation -- almost a debate -- over GS/OS in the past few days on the feed. For example, pnet01!crash!cunyvm.cuny.edu!ALBRO%NIEHS.BITNET writes: >> (1) Why don't they follow the guidelines? Do they WANT their programs >> to crash? Seems a bit odd to me. Historically, Apple has failed to >> follow the guidelines it sends to developers much more than they have. Well, a lot of programmers don't follow the guidelines out of ignorance; a lot of 'em -- particularly authors of Public Domain/ShareWare applications and DA's -- don't really have the time or the interest to follow all the rules perfectly, and (a similar thing) many goals in programming can be accomplished much quicker, easier, faster, etc. using illegal entry points or whatever. Is this good for functionality? Sometimes. But is it good for future compatibility? Nope, unfortunately. >> (2) Has the "bad code" in a single one of the programs that crash under >> GS/OS been found yet? Again, seems odd that no one has pointed out any >> of it. Huh?? MANY software authors/publishers, both PD/ShareWare and commerical, have released new versions of their programs that run under GS/OS. Usually pretty minor changes are all that's necessary. Come on, folks. GS/OS is a relatively new operating system, and for all its complexity, it's incredibly bug free. It's also much faster than P16, and offers many more features than P16. I've been using it since it's been released, and had almost no software incompatibilities with it; only WordPerfect GS, if memory serves. I'm really pleased with it. Joseph F. Schober, Sysop, StarPort BBS [703/931-0947 - 3/12/2400] ProLine: gnh-starport!jschober@pro-novapple I-Net..: gnh-starport!jschober@pro-novapple.cts.com ALinkPE: JSchober * Sent by StarPort BBS at 3/ 8/89 9:53:29 AM
lvirden@pro-tcc.cts.com (Larry Virden) (10/23/89)
Network Comment: to #1520 by indiana@pro-truckstop.cts.com
yes they still have it. two ways to find it - the direct way is that it is
under the developer's forum's software library. The globally useful way is to
select the apple ii software forum menu item, then select the software finder
menu and give it some keywords perhaps like gs/os or gsos (I dont remember for
certain) and system disk and it will list software matching your keywords for
you.
--
Larry W. Virden ProLine: pro-tcc!lvirden
674 Falls Place Work: lvirden@cas.bitnet
Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614 Aline: LVIRDEN
CIS: 75046,606