craparotta@liovax.enet.dec.com (Physical T5--Virtual T7) (10/19/89)
*** SMALL FLAME ON *** >Things change, Joe. There are forces at work here that I can't quite explain >or much less control. For a while I let them get the best of me, but things >will change (soon). Well Andy you got me here.. It happens to all of us at one time or another. Not much I can say about that... >No, you don't. You could slap them on a disk and shrink the whole disk. >You could use Gary Little's AppleSingle maker and then shrink the resultant >file. Just because you're so irrational to think that ShrinkIt is already the >only way to do things doesn't mean it really *IS* the only way to do things. Shrinking the whole disk is just getting around the problem and was NOT the reason I posted the message.. >Next time before you respond to something, how about taking a deep breath and >a step back before you do? Boy I wish I could do that ALL the time...I guess your a pro at this and ALWAYS do, huh.... >You shouldn't think like that, Joe -- if I were to pull shrinkit down off of >the info services like CIS and GEnie, everyone and his brother would be >very unhappy. What is anyone going to use to archive forked files, huh? DDD? >Yeah, right. Well, I don't know easy that would be. I'm sure there was some type of agree- ment on this...It DOES state in your docs that it is FREEWARE. Now to me that means I don't HAVE to pay for it. If I'm wrong (I'm not a lawyer) then tell me so. Now I sent Floyd a check for BLU, because I appreciated his program and his support. As I do for Shrinkit it! >The fact of the matter is that places like CIS and GEnie CAN'T drop >ShrinkIt now. if they do, their libraries basically can't function because >no one can unpack anything. Sounds like your tooting your own horn here Andy. You did write a nice program. Someone else can come along and do the same. Try not to get puffed up or arrogant about it. >And yes, a formal reply to kent dickey's article is coming. I've been more >than busy with college work this week without having to contend with >something like that. Been to college, Joe? Find it hard? Good, I do. Well from reading Kent's reply, I'll stand back and take a breath on this one. Did you or did you not right the packing algorithim?? No I haven't been to college. I don't find it hard, cause I didn't go. I do support my family real well, without having gone to college.. >> Joe That's me... >andy >A hot-headed small-minded post for your hot-headed small-minded post Same Here.... Joe ps: I JUST saw the press Release for Shrinkit/GS(tm).
ART100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Andy Tefft 862-6728", 814) (10/20/89)
I guess Andy Nicholas said... (I can't find the original article) >>You shouldn't think like that, Joe -- if I were to pull shrinkit down off of >>the info services like CIS and GEnie, everyone and his brother would be >>very unhappy. What is anyone going to use to archive forked files, huh? DDD? >>Yeah, right. >>The fact of the matter is that places like CIS and GEnie CAN'T drop >>ShrinkIt now. if they do, their libraries basically can't function because >>no one can unpack anything. Umm.... Isn't this what the problem was way back when ShrinkIt was first introduced and the services didn't want to support it because they didn't know how long you (Andy) were gonna support it? Seems to me to be a not-very-nice thing you're doing here and you seem to be sticking your tongue out over it. "Nyah, I got you beat and there's nothing you can do cause i got CIS and GEnie on my side now!!" Of course, I don't own a GS now and I probably never will, and I don't even use ShrinkIt to archive anything, only unarchive, so I don't care if it goes away, and of course until next May or so I will be able to use Andy McFadden's new bugger, so what do I care? I don't know...
krb20699@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/21/89)
I think I can stand to use a simple NuFX archiver, regardless of how spiffy it is. I'd actually prefer less overhead as long as it did the actual job well. Resource-fork archiving isn't a major issue. The only forked files I've ever seen have been CDEVS. I'll admit, if you archive CDEVs a lot, resource-support is necessary. Otherwise... Ken.
bird@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (j.l.walters) (10/22/89)
From article <8910192224.aa06157@SMOKE.BRL.MIL>, by ART100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Andy Tefft 862-6728", 814):
> Umm.... Isn't this what the problem was way back when ShrinkIt was first
> introduced and the services didn't want to support it because they didn't
> know how long you (Andy) were gonna support it?
>
> Seems to me to be a not-very-nice thing you're doing here and you seem
> to be sticking your tongue out over it. "Nyah, I got you beat and there's
> nothing you can do cause i got CIS and GEnie on my side now!!"
>
> Of course, I don't own a GS now and I probably never will, and I don't
> even use ShrinkIt to archive anything, only unarchive, so I don't care
> if it goes away, and of course until next May or so I will be able
> to use Andy McFadden's new bugger, so what do I care? I don't know...
Well, I do use Shrinkit all the time. I, for one, will be more than
willing to buy Andy's next offering since what I've seen in the past is
so useful; far more than just unpacking things that come over the net.
I've noticed all the postings that are dumping on Andy for wanting to
get paid for something that nobody yet has.
Since his new product will only apply to the IIgs i.e., GENIE and the
others will use the old Shrinkit to pack for the older Apple's I fail
to see why these people are concerned.
Now to the IIgs folks:
Here is someone providing a product that works with your machine and
only your machine, anything you get/unpack with this product will be for
your machine only - why do you think they whould provide it free for
you personal use?
Since I don't have anything except an Apple I don't subscribe to other
comp.systems..., however, I really wonder if they are populaed with the
incredible number of bitchers I see in the Apple world. If not, does
that say that Apple owners have arrested personalities such that they
can't ever see the good side of anything?
--
Joe Walters att!ihlpf!bird
IHP 1F-240 (312) 713-5356mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (10/23/89)
Network Comment: to #11990 by gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!krb20699@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu > I think I can stand to use a simple NuFX archiver, regardless > of how spiffy it is. I'd actually prefer less overhead as long as > it did the actual job well. Resource-fork archiving isn't a major > issue. The only forked files I've ever seen have been CDEVS. > I'll admit, if you archive CDEVs a lot, resource-support is > necessary. Otherwise... True, currently there aren't many applications using resources, but my guess is that will change in the future. More products will utilize resources wherever possible.. so although resource-fork archiving isn't that important RIGHT NOW, it is definitely needed in the very near future. Mark Munz
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (10/23/89)
In article <8910191252.AA28555@decwrl.dec.com>, craparotta@liovax.enet.dec.com (Physical T5--Virtual T7) writes: >>Next time before you respond to something, how about taking a deep breath and >>a step back before you do? > >Boy I wish I could do that ALL the time...I guess your a pro at this and ALWAYS >do, huh.... No, and that's why I labeled my post a flame. I was going to act irrational, and I forewarned everyone of that... also, it would be nice net manners to not post email to the net. Usually (unless I posted it to the net by mistake, not really sure here) you ASK the person involved if he/she minds their private email being used for posting. >>You shouldn't think like that, Joe -- if I were to pull shrinkit down off of >>the info services like CIS and GEnie, everyone and his brother would be >>very unhappy. > > Well, I don't know easy that would be. I'm sure there was some type of agree- > ment on this... I used that argument more for its impact than for its practicality. >>The fact of the matter is that places like CIS and GEnie CAN'T drop >>ShrinkIt now. if they do, their libraries basically can't function because >>no one can unpack anything. > > Sounds like your tooting your own horn here Andy. You did write a nice > program. Someone else can come along and do the same. Try not to get puffed > up or arrogant about it. Yes, I was tooting my own horn. Just because in an admitted flame that I post something that's true doesn't mean I'm arrogant or "puffed up." I don't consider myself to be arrogant or "snooty" or "stuck up" or anything like that. >>I've been more than busy with college work this week without having to >>contend with something like that. Been to college, Joe? Find it hard? >>Good, I do. > > No I haven't been to college. I don't find it hard, cause I didn't go. I do > support my family real well, without having gone to college.. This was not a slap at joe for his education -- I'm just really having a hard time in college right now, that's all. I'm a Senior now and it's tough. andy -- ---- Andy Nicholas InterNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435, Moravian College uucp: rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Bethlehem, PA, 18018 GEnie, AppleLink PE: shrinkit CIS: 70007,3141
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (10/23/89)
In article <8910192224.aa06157@SMOKE.BRL.MIL>, ART100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Andy Tefft 862-6728", 814) writes: > Of course, I don't own a GS now and I probably never will, and I don't > even use ShrinkIt to archive anything, only unarchive, so I don't care > if it goes away, and of course until next May or so I will be able > to use Andy McFadden's new bugger, so what do I care? I don't know... So why even bother posting? If you're not going to use Andy McFadden's packer or GS/ShrinkIt (which is also free), then this would never have affected you.... andy -- ---- Andy Nicholas InterNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435, Moravian College uucp: rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Bethlehem, PA, 18018 GEnie, AppleLink PE: shrinkit CIS: 70007,3141
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (10/23/89)
In article <113300120@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, krb20699@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > I think I can stand to use a simple NuFX archiver, regardless of how > spiffy it is. I'd actually prefer less overhead as long as it did the actual > job well. Resource-fork archiving isn't a major issue. The only forked files > I've ever seen have been CDEVS. I'll admit, if you archive CDEVs a lot, > resource-support is necessary. Otherwise... Actually, archiving files with resource forks will become incredibly important in the months ahead because many, many programs are being designed to take advantage of resource forks. as more and more programs do this, you'll see the frustration level people experience start to rise as they start to try archiving these things... hang on, help is coming... :-) andy -- ---- Andy Nicholas InterNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435, Moravian College uucp: rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Bethlehem, PA, 18018 GEnie, AppleLink PE: shrinkit CIS: 70007,3141
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (10/23/89)
In article <2510@cbnewsd.ATT.COM>, bird@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (j.l.walters) writes: > Well, I do use Shrinkit all the time. I, for one, will be more than > willing to buy Andy's next offering since what I've seen in the past is > so useful; far more than just unpacking things that come over the net. Don't bother, Joe, it's going to be freeware. While I certainly wouldn't mind if folks sent me something for the incredible amount of time and effort I've put into it, they certainly don't have to. It would just help me out, that's all... > I've noticed all the postings that are dumping on Andy for wanting to > get paid for something that nobody yet has. Don't worry about it. I'm the one writing the programs -- if i want to give it away, let me... :-) > Here is someone providing a product that works with your machine and > only your machine, anything you get/unpack with this product will be for > your machine only - why do you think they whould provide it free for > you personal use? Don't worry about that, either -- I realize there will always be a bunch of malcontents everywhere, but right now I have one thing to worry about, and that's shipping GS/ShrinkIt somewhat on-time... I was working on the comment editor tonight. You can include comments with individual files inside and archive and edit those comments later (hurray for textedit! :-) > Joe Walters att!ihlpf!bird andy -- ---- Andy Nicholas InterNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435, Moravian College uucp: rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Bethlehem, PA, 18018 GEnie, AppleLink PE: shrinkit CIS: 70007,3141
krb20699@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/24/89)
>Network Comment: to #11990 by gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu! >uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!krb20699@tut.cis. >ohio-state.edu >> I think I can stand to use a simple NuFX archiver, regardless >> of how spiffy it is. I'd actually prefer less overhead as long as >> it did the actual job well. Resource-fork archiving isn't a major >> issue. The only forked files I've ever seen have been CDEVS. >> I'll admit, if you archive CDEVs a lot, resource-support is >> necessary. Otherwise... >True, currently there aren't many applications using resources, but >my guess is that will change in the future. More products will utilize >resources wherever possible.. so although resource-fork archiving isn't >that important RIGHT NOW, it is definitely needed in the very near future. I also agree. But the majority of my use is based on downloading Share/ Freeware from the UI Unix machine. I'm not so sure, in my specific case, that resource manipulation would be a major concern for a decent amount of time. It took a while for Sys 4.0 to be the standard, I assume Sys 5.0 will be the same, if not to the same extent: it is a lot better. Personally, I'd be will- ing to wait for resource support. >Mark Munz InterNet: krb20699@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | Ken Brownfield or : krb1517@uxf.cso.uiuc.edu | 1010 South Second PLATO: ken brownfield/unialum/cerl | Champaign, IL, 61820. or : brownfield/dialup/cerl | 1-217-384-6964 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm 17 years old, a Sophomore Computer Engineer at the University of Illinois, and proud of it. If I my opinions are not those of the U of I, they're out of luck. They're the ones giving away 6,000 signons a year!
shubbell@pnet02.gryphon.com (Steve Hubbell) (10/26/89)
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) writes: > >Don't bother, Joe, it's going to be freeware. While I certainly wouldn't >mind if folks sent me something for the incredible amount of time and >effort I've put into it, they certainly don't have to. It would just help >me out, that's all... > Andy, when you get the program done, my check will be in the mail. Doing a lot of programming in 65816 myself, I know how difficult and time-consuming it is. Shrinkit has turned out to be one of the nicest programs I have ever seen written on an Apple II and it sounds like Shrinkit/GS is going to be even better. I don't think you were asking you for to much when you requested people pay.... Just my viewpoint... >andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Hubbell - Manhattan Beach, CA Co-Founder and President Zephyr Technologies UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!shubbell INET: shubbell@pnet02.gryphon.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bsherman@pro-exchange.cts.com (Bob Sherman) (10/26/89)
Comment to message from: gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!tank!eecae!netnews.upenn.edu!vax1.cc.lehigh.edu!vlsi3b15!batman!nicholaA@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Andy Nicholas) Having recently met Andy at an Applefest party in San Francisco, and then taking him on a hair raising cable car ride (his first I think), let me assure his critics that he is anything but "snooty" or "stuck-up".. He is down to earth "good people". He is also an Apple II advocate (we need more of them), and from the software I have seen of his, a darned good programmer. I think we should be willing to help and encourage folks like Andy, not drag them down and through the wringer. The writers of all of the Apple Doomsday rumors and complaints have chased many of the Apple II software developers away from the II, let's try to keep those that we still have. We need them and their software support for our machines... Some folks have already caused Andy to cancel his plans to sell the GS version of ShrinkIt, and any plans he might have had to pay some of the expenses he has for his senior year of school from the expected (and deserved) procedes, and Andy has already said he does not like the shareware concept, so where does this leave him ???? Perhaps he should coin a new phrase "Donationware" for his new program, and let us send him whatever we feel the program is worth to us, if we wish to make a donation, and if you don't wish to, so be it.. I know I will be one of the first in line with checkbook in hand when I get the GS version... UUCP: crash!pro-exchange!bsherman ARPA: crash!pro-exchange!bsherman@nosc.mil INET: bsherman@pro-exchange.cts.com
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (10/26/89)
In article <21462@gryphon.COM>, shubbell@pnet02.gryphon.com (Steve Hubbell) writes: > Just my viewpoint... Actually, I'm now down to 8 major points on my backboard in my lab. I'll probably get another removed before the end of the day after my renaissance class (we're reading Dante). andy -- Andy Nicholas InterNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435 uucp: rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Moravian College GEnie: shrinkit Bethlehem, PA 18018 America Online: shrinkit CIS: 70007,3141