SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (10/16/89)
It appears from the mail headers that you sent your question to INFO-APP at NDSUVM1 instead of to the correct address: info-apple@Brl.Mil. In that case, only a VERY SMALL fraction of the list's World-wide readership received your message. On Fri, 13 Oct 89 10:17:51 EXP you said: > I like to know some information about the II gs. The IIgs is a three year old piece of hardware. Surely your library has back issues of InCider, Nibble, A+, etc. which contain ABUNDANT information about this computer. >- What this assembler like ? >- How many registers it have ? >- All regiters have 16 bits ? >- How many memory it can adress ? Up to 8 Mbytes >- What the diferences to the 65C02 ? >- It have a lot of mneumonics or only a few (like 65C02) ? >- Do you like the II gs assembler ? Why ? >- How many kinds of grafics he suports (resulution of grafics modes.279x191...) >- How many MHZ (Clock) ? (without accelerators). >- All IIe programs runs in II gs ? Yes, even <neaarly> all II+ programs >- How many microprocessor it has ? ONE 65816 at 2.8 MHz (which also can run at 1 MHz) >- Say general information about II gs ? > >if you don't know all answers give me some of them. > >I'm in Brazil, I like the Apple, I have an old IIe but I can't find here >information about that > thanks again, and sorry if I make any english > mistake, becouse my english is not perfect. > > Roberto Nunes > MAB01077 at UFRJ (BITNET) Murph Sewall Vaporware? ---> [Gary Larson returns 1/1/90] Prof. of Marketing Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET Business School sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu [INTERNET] U of Connecticut {psuvax1 or mcvax }!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL [UUCP] (203) 486-5246 [FAX] (203) 486-2489 [PHONE] 41 49N 72 15W [ICBM] The opposite of artificial intelligence is genuine stupidity! -+- I don't speak for my employer, though I frequently wish that I could (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited)
brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) (10/25/89)
In article <8910161202.aa01399@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) writes: >On Fri, 13 Oct 89 10:17:51 EXP you said: >> I like to know some information about the II gs. > >>- How many memory it can adress ? > Up to 8 Mbytes Make that 16 Mbytes. Both video RAM and ROM memory are above the 8 Meg boundary (I don't know where the sound memory is). Generally, RAM might be limited to 8 Meg on cards from Apple computer, but it is possible to add RAM above the 8 Meg boundary, so the total linearly addressed RAM can be much more than 8 Meg. >>- How many microprocessor it has ? > ONE 65816 at 2.8 MHz (which also can run at 1 MHz) Actually, there is another 65C02 superset microcomputer - complete with RAM, ROM and built-in I/O peripherals - to run the Apple DeskTop Bus. Make that two microprocessors. Just because you can't load your own programs into the ADB CPU doesn't mean that you aren't benefitting from parallel processing (imagine the performance of the GS if it handled ADB directly?). >> >> Roberto Nunes > >Murph Sewall Brian Willoughby UUCP: ...!{tikal, sun, uunet, elwood}!microsoft!brianw InterNet: microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET or: microsoft!brianw@Sun.COM Bitnet brianw@microsoft.UUCP
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (10/29/89)
brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes: >>> I like to know some information about the II gs. >> >>>- How many memory it can adress ? >> Up to 8 Mbytes > >Make that 16 Mbytes. Both video RAM and ROM memory are above the 8 Meg >boundary (I don't know where the sound memory is). Generally, RAM might >be limited to 8 Meg on cards from Apple computer, but it is possible to >add RAM above the 8 Meg boundary, so the total linearly addressed RAM can >be much more than 8 Meg. > That's a little misleading. The processor can address 16 MB, and the ROM and slow RAM in the system are both in the high part of that address space. However, the hardware can't address fast RAM above the 8 MB mark, and the Memory Manager doesn't look for it. This has an effect such that if you put more than a total of 8 MB of RAM in the system through an expansion card, the first 8 MB are all you'll get to use. Brian's right; it *can* go higher, but it's misleading to think you can buy a 16 MB RAM card and get to use all of it. You can't. Even with special slot-ROM tricks to get to the memory, it's not accessible to DMA peripherals. >Brian Willoughby >UUCP: ...!{tikal, sun, uunet, elwood}!microsoft!brianw >InterNet: microsoft!brianw@uunet.UU.NET > or: microsoft!brianw@Sun.COM >Bitnet brianw@microsoft.UUCP -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
asd@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth) (10/29/89)
In article <36001@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes: >>>>- How many memory it can adress ? >>> Up to 8 Mbytes >> >>Make that 16 Mbytes. Both video RAM and ROM memory are above the 8 Meg >>boundary (I don't know where the sound memory is). Generally, RAM might >>be limited to 8 Meg on cards from Apple computer, but it is possible to >>add RAM above the 8 Meg boundary, so the total linearly addressed RAM can >>be much more than 8 Meg. >That's a little misleading. The processor can address 16 MB, and the ROM and Very. >slow RAM in the system are both in the high part of that address space. >However, the hardware can't address fast RAM above the 8 MB mark, and the >Memory Manager doesn't look for it. This has an effect such that if you put >more than a total of 8 MB of RAM in the system through an expansion card, the >first 8 MB are all you'll get to use. >Brian's right; it *can* go higher, but it's misleading to think you can buy >a 16 MB RAM card and get to use all of it. You can't. Even with special >slot-ROM tricks to get to the memory, it's not accessible to DMA peripherals. I'd heard (way back in the beginning of the dawn of the IIgs) that Apple had specifically put aside 8 meg of ROM space for their personal use in the future. Actually, shouldn't that be about 7.5 or so? They did allot 512K for a ROMdisk, but what can you do with 512K? Sure, you can put ProDOS 8 on there and maybe a few other things, but you can't really get something like GS/OS on there. Seems kinda odd that Apple would set aside 8 meg of space for future ROM upgrades. I mean, shit, what are you gonna put there? UNIX???? OH! You ARE????? Well, now maybe I underestimated you guys. Then again, it looks like I'm dreaming again while I'm posting. Matt's explanation seems to make more sense than the one I heard. Of course, then the question is, why did Apple choose to limit the memory space by over half? Owell, the world may never know. -kareth.
dcw@athena.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) (10/29/89)
In article <3442@mace.cc.purdue.edu> asd@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth) writes: >In article <36001@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: > >>brianw@microsoft.UUCP (Brian Willoughby) writes: >>>>>- How many memory it can adress ? >>>> Up to 8 Mbytes >>> >>>Make that 16 Mbytes. Both video RAM and ROM memory are above the 8 Meg > >>That's a little misleading. The processor can address 16 MB, and the ROM and >Very. > >>slow RAM in the system are both in the high part of that address space. >>However, the hardware can't address fast RAM above the 8 MB mark, and the >>Memory Manager doesn't look for it. This has an effect such that if you put >>more than a total of 8 MB of RAM in the system through an expansion card, the >>first 8 MB are all you'll get to use. > >I'd heard (way back in the beginning of the dawn of the IIgs) that Apple >had specifically put aside 8 meg of ROM space for their personal use in >the future. [...] > Matt's explanation seems to make more sense than the >one I heard. Of course, then the question is, why did Apple choose to >limit the memory space by over half? Owell, the world may never know. > >-kareth. Actually, it only addresses 8mb because it's a port of some sort of the mac memory manager. Now, the Mac II is currently "crippled" to recognize only 8mb of RAM, even the though the processor can reach something like 4gb. As I understand it, the top address lines are not used to address memory, but rather as hardware switches. Whenever the CPU is asking for very high addresses, the rest of the hardware routes that request to the ROM or other hardware (like peripherals - meaning the NuBUS). Even with the virtual memory support of system 7, you won't be getting a full 32 bits of address space as RAM. You only get 31 bits. That top bit means "select the ROM." Wow, 31 bits of ROM space. They'll never fill it up. At any rate, did ya ever notice that hardware-related addresses in the GS are all in high-memory? Perhaps we see a similar design here? Hmm? Cost effective? Hmm? Could it be ..... SATAN??? (sorry, couldn't resist :-) Dave Whitney dcw@sun-bear.lcs.mit.edu ...!mit-eddie!sun-bear!dcw dcw@athena.mit.edu My employer pays me well. This, however, does not mean he agrees with me. I wrote Z-Link & BinSCII. Send me bug reports. I use a //GS. Send me Tech Info.
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (10/30/89)
dcw@athena.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) writes: >Actually, it only addresses 8mb because it's a port of some sort of >the mac memory manager. Now, the Mac II is currently "crippled" to >recognize only 8mb of RAM, even the though the processor can reach >something like 4gb. As I understand it, the top address lines are not >used to address memory, but rather as hardware switches. Whenever the >CPU is asking for very high addresses, the rest of the hardware routes >that request to the ROM or other hardware (like peripherals - meaning >the NuBUS). > >Even with the virtual memory support of system 7, you won't be getting >a full 32 bits of address space as RAM. You only get 31 bits. That top >bit means "select the ROM." Wow, 31 bits of ROM space. They'll never >fill it up. > >At any rate, did ya ever notice that hardware-related addresses in the >GS are all in high-memory? Perhaps we see a similar design here? Hmm? >Cost effective? Hmm? Could it be ..... SATAN??? (sorry, couldn't resist :-) > > >Dave Whitney >dcw@sun-bear.lcs.mit.edu ...!mit-eddie!sun-bear!dcw dcw@athena.mit.edu >My employer pays me well. This, however, does not mean he agrees with me. >I wrote Z-Link & BinSCII. Send me bug reports. I use a //GS. Send me Tech Info. Sorry, I don't buy that for one minute. Most of the IIgs tools were designed after their Macintosh counterparts, but they were changed everywhere it was felt appropriate. For example, the Mac Memory Manager has something similar to zones, which was not included in the IIgs because it wasn't necessary Also, the Mac MM doesn't automatically put fixed blocks low and non-fixe blocks high in memory; the application has to do that with MoveHHi. The I/O spaces are physically in banks $E0 and $E1, but there are 30 banks higher than those that don't have I/O spaces. Also, the I/O can be shadowed down to banks 0 and 1, so that argument really holds no water either. Even the new tools are done this way. The Resource Manager has a similar map structure to the Macintosh RM, but only at the beginning so the two can tell each other's files apart. The Mac Resource Manager gets really slow with large numbers of resources; the IIgs Resource Manager doesn't. The Macintos TextEdit has been revised several times to allow font styling, sizes, colors, etc. It was built into the IIgs one from the beginning (in fact, color was built into ALL the IIgs tools from the beginning; not so on the Mac!). No, the reason the Memory Manager only addresses 8 MB is because of hardware considerations. But thanks for playing our game anyway; Dave Lyons has lovely selection of parting gifts for you. (I'm horrible.) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------