garym@pro-fishunt.cts.com (System Administrator) (10/24/89)
It is amazing to me the attitudes of many in the Apple II community. It seems that Apple II users are paranoid, picky, fussy and unrealistic. Why they always expect upgrades(and they better be free) and expect everything yesterday, makes me wonder if they live up to the same standards as they seem to expect of Apple Inc,. In many ways Apple has supported the Apple II better than many companies support their products. If you keep bitching they may stop listening altogther. Even though GS/OS may not have lived up to your expectations it sounds to me as though it was a major improvement, is that not support. Do you think the manhours that goes into an operating system upgrade of that magnitude comes cheap! Apple may not be perfect and there may be things they could do better, but they do not deserve the flack some of you give them. Gary McClain 763 E. 4th st. Chillicothe, Oh 45601 Pro-FisHunt: 614-775-2056 (300-2400 Baud)
rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) (10/25/89)
>It is amazing to me the attitudes of many in the Apple II community. It seems >that Apple II users are paranoid, picky, fussy and unrealistic. Why they >always expect upgrades(and they better be free) and expect everything >yesterday, makes me wonder if they live up to the same standards as they seem to >expect of Apple Inc,. In many ways Apple has supported the Apple II better than >many companies support their products. If you keep bitching they may stop Yes, just ask the Amiga folks how long they had to wait for system software that worked reliably, for that matter MS-DOS users are still waiting for a version of that OS that will support more than 640K directly. Rick
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (10/26/89)
In article <4303@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) writes: > >>It is amazing to me the attitudes of many in the Apple II community. It seems >>that Apple II users are paranoid, picky, fussy and unrealistic. Why they >>always expect upgrades(and they better be free) and expect everything >>yesterday, makes me wonder if they live up to the same standards as they seem >>to expect of Apple Inc,. In many ways Apple has supported the Apple II better >>many companies support their products. If you keep bitching they may stop The more you get the more you want? Maybe? andy -- Andy Nicholas InterNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435 uucp: rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Moravian College GEnie: shrinkit Bethlehem, PA 18018 America Online: shrinkit CIS: 70007,3141
sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown) (11/08/89)
In-Reply-To: message from garym@pro-fishunt.cts.com This I read: >It is amazing to me the attitudes of many in the Apple II community. It seems >that Apple II users are paranoid, picky, fussy and unrealistic. Why they >always expect upgrades(and they better be free) and expect everything >yesterday,makes me wonder if they live up to the same standards as theyseemto >expect of Apple Inc.In many ways Apple has supported the Apple II better than >many companies support their products. If you keep bitching they may stop >listening altogther. Even though GS/OS may not have lived up to your >expectations it sounds to me as though it was a major improvement, is thatnot >support. Do you think the manhours that goes into an operating system upgrade >of that magnitude comes cheap! Apple may not be perfect and there may be >things they could do better, but they do not deserve the flack some of you >give them. I hardly think that many people in the Apple II community are being "paranoid, picky, fussy and unrealistic". Other than the Apple IIe (another Apple II) what other HARDWARE has been out for 3 YEARS WITHOUT SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE without a SUCCESSOR? None. You obviously don't use an Apple II, but would you be satisfied with the throughput, graphics, and support for your machine that the Apple II has. The Apple II has been 'left' as an Educational computer. Well, is there any surprise that the NON-educational software developers don't support it anymore?? I don't use my Apple II for Education, so what am I to do??? You say Apple supports the II better than other companies support their products. Cite one please. Apple Canada quietly does its best to pretend the Apple II doesn't exist. "Get a Mac" they say. "Upgrade". Well, that's good support, but for what? I am not into Apple bashing (though I could get into it rather easily). I appreciate what Matt D. is saying about Apple II DTS's feelings for Apple II support, but if Apple hopes to be content with a shrinking market (instead of a growing one), Matt D. and his colleages are destined to be on Macintosh DTS. I know of NO other company that is so READY to rest on its laurels, so content to be "the worst they can get away with" instead of the "best they can be". Why is Apple so happy to let Apple II users bear the Apple II flag? Isn't that THEIR job? Finally, I have NO complaints about System Disk 5.0xxx. Great. Two years late, but great anyway. Now, they've brought the software up to date. How about the hardware? If they wanted 10 meg 65816's, they could get them. We'd settle with 8 megs! And comments about "free upgrades". Heck, I (like everyone else in this world) prefer FREE upgrades. BUT I'D GLADLY PAY for a new Apple II if it were worth it. And (correct me if I'm wrong) a lot of other people would too!!! (excuse the punctuation... it's instead of the raised voice) UUCP: crash!pro-generic!sb ARPA: crash!pro-generic!sb@nosc.mil INET: sb@pro-generic.cts.com
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (11/09/89)
In article <6660.infoapple.net@pro-generic> sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown) writes: >If [Apple] wanted 10 meg 65816's, they could get them. How? Apple and Applied Engineering have both stated that they are unable to get 10MHz 65816s in sufficient quantity to base a product on them. Bill Mensch came off sounding like a snake oil salesman at a recent "round table" discussion. He seems to say that faster chips would be available if only his customers had the right attitude.
stout@hpscdc.scd.hp.com (Tim Stoutamore) (11/10/89)
In article <6660.infoapple.net@pro-generic> sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown) writes: >If [Apple] wanted 10 meg 65816's, they could get them. i > Apple could bypass Western Design Center and build their own. Of course it's technically possible to build 10MHz 65816's and I'm sure Apple has more resources than WDC to throw at the problem. a&a076c029R technicalthan WDC to t How? Apple and Applied Engineering have both stated that they are unable to get 10MHz 65816s in sufficient quantity to base a product on them. Bill Mensch came off sounding like a snake oil salesman at a recent "round table" discussion. He seems to say that faster chips would be available if only his customers had the right attitude. ----------
mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (11/10/89)
In-Reply-To: message from cs.utexas.edu!usc!samsung!aplcen!haven!adm!smoke!gwyn@rutgers.edu >How? Apple and Applied Engineering have both stated that they are unable >to get 10MHz 65816s in sufficient quantity to base a product on them. > >Bill Mensch came off sounding like a snake oil salesman at a recent >"round table" discussion. He seems to say that faster chips would be >available if only his customers had the right attitude. Hmm, I wonder.. if Apple would back up Mensch, I bet Mensch could get 10-15Mhz chips out the door. I believe Mensch said something along those lines.. that with help from Apple, he'd have plenty. But if you're getting shafted.. not much you can do. (Now, that's not to imply that Apple is shafting Mensch.. well, then again.. it just might be implying that) Mark Munz
UD041948@VM1.NODAK.EDU (Joe Carlin) (11/10/89)
AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! This speedy 65-series chip is really getting to me. AE says they won't make a faster TransWarp GS because there aren't enough fast chips out there, and Mensch says there aren't even fast chips because there's no demand for them! I WANT MY 13 MHZ GS, AND I WANT IT NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!! Are they just really stupid in the head to work together enough on it or what? I can't believe that. People say that a 7 Mhz TransWarp GS is the best investment they ever made, can you imagine what 10 Mhz will do? I mean, the only, and I mean the_very one and only reason_ I'm holding out of buying a TransWarp is because they don't have the 10 Mhz version. AE, are you listening? I should call them up and just bitch them out about it. God, knows a call like that would get them going about it. I wonder if the president of AE would do anything he got a call at 3 am bitching him out because there's no 10 Mhz TransWarp? I know I would. I know that memory would stick in my mind. Joe
dale@pro-colony.cts.com (System Operator) (11/15/89)
> In-Reply-To: message from UD041948@vm1.nodak.edu > > CS-ID: #12352.apple.ii/info-apple@pro-colony 1065 chars > Date: Sat, 11 Nov 89 03:18:08 CDT > From: UD041948@vm1.nodak.edu (Joe Carlin) > Subject: Re: Apple II Users > > AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! This speedy 65-series chip is really getting > to me. AE says they won't make a faster TransWarp GS because there aren't > enough fast chips out there, and Mensch says there aren't even fast chips > because there's no demand for them! I WANT MY 13 MHZ GS, AND I WANT IT > NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!! > > Are they just really stupid in the head to work together enough on it or > what? I can't believe that. People say that a 7 Mhz TransWarp GS is the > best investment they ever made, can you imagine what 10 Mhz will do? I > mean, the only, and I mean the_very one and only reason_ I'm holding out > of buying a TransWarp is because they don't have the 10 Mhz version. AE, > are you listening? I should call them up and just bitch them out about it. > > God, knows a call like that would get them going about it. > > I wonder if the president of AE would do anything he got a call at 3 am > bitching him out because there's no 10 Mhz TransWarp? I know I would. > > I know that memory would stick in my mind. > > Joe Flame on Why don't you go right ahead and do that. Then when you get arrested for harrasment you will probably end up spending more for the fines then you would have for a TransWarp GS card and you still won't be running any faster. Or better yet, since you obvisouly know more than anyone else, why no just design your own card and stop your bitching. If there are so many 'fast' chips out there, then why did AE have such a problem getting 7mhz chips. Don't you think a 10 mhz (or faster) TransWarp GS sell like crazy? Do you think that AE needs a lesson in marketing? What would they have to lose by saying they can't get enough fast chips for a production product (yes, please remember that, *any* manufacturer must have a stable supply for a mass production product that they can rely on. A handful of chips from WDC won't cut it). flame off Dale ============================================================================== proline: dale@pro-colony uucp : crash!pnet01!pro-colony!dale inet : crash!dale@pro-colony.cts.com arpa : crash!pnet01!pro-colony!dale@nosc.mil ============================================================================== >>> pro-colony 214/370-7056 24 hours <<<