philip@pro-generic.cts.com (Philip McDunnough) (11/13/89)
Has anyone come up with a driver to allow a Syquest based removable to work with a GS? If so could you please E-mail it.Thank's. Philip McDunnough ->philip@utstat.toronto.edu : University of Toronto : [my opinions.]
rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) (11/19/89)
In article <7214.infoapple.net@pro-generic> philip@pro-generic.cts.com (Philip McDunnough) writes: >Has anyone come up with a driver to allow a Syquest based removable to work >with a GS? If so could you please E-mail it.Thank's. > The Syquest is a standard SCSI drive so it formats fine with the Advanced Disk Utility. The disks can't be dismounted and mounted without restarting, though. CMS, and AMR have their own SCSI cards that have drivers for online mounting and dismounting. I don't know if there is a problem with this and the Apple SCSI card. I formatted a CMS drive with no problem using an Apple SCSI card and the standard GS/OS software (on the CMS you have to change the position of switch 7, I think, for the Apple II. I got this drive off of a Mac and tested it out. Some other brands may require a SCSI terminator. You can get the drive for $799 from Ehman Engineering (See Mac magazines), or you can pay $989 for the AMR drive from Roger Coats (1-800-438-2883). All of the drive mechanisms are made by Syquest. The disks cost about $79 mail order. If the ability to use these disks like floppies is worth $200 to you, get a CMS or AMR. Rick Fincher rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (11/19/89)
In article <4578@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: >CMS, and AMR have their own SCSI cards that have drivers for online >mounting and dismounting. I don't know if there is a problem with this and >the Apple SCSI card. > >I formatted a CMS drive with no problem using an Apple SCSI card and the >standard GS/OS software (on the CMS you have to change the position of >switch 7, I think, for the Apple II. I got this drive off of a Mac and >tested it out. Some other brands may require a SCSI terminator. > >You can get the drive for $799 from Ehman Engineering (See Mac magazines), >or you can pay $989 for the AMR drive from Roger Coats (1-800-438-2883). >All of the drive mechanisms are made by Syquest. The disks cost about $79 >mail order. If the ability to use these disks like floppies is worth $200 >to you, get a CMS or AMR. WAIT A SECOND. STOP THE PRESSES!!! At AppleFest, I spoke to an engineer from CMS. I don't believe he actually created their SCSI card since it's been around for a while, but he is the one that made their removable hard drive work on the Apple line. For a while I was really "up" on buying a removable hard drive, but had recently (soon before AppleFest I mean) found out you couldn't dismount a cartridge without rebooting. I didn't like this because one of my main reasons for buying a cartridge hard drive was to use ONE cartridge as my main storage and ANOTHER cartridge as my backup, thus getting rid of backing up to floppies.. Well, the engineer explained it all to me, although I've forgotten much of it now, so the following simple explanation is probably wrong in many respects. At AppleFest, the drive could only give back one of four responses if access is made. Of those four, only an I/O error was appropriate when a cartridge was taken out (under any circumstances from what I remember). He showed me what happened under System 5.0. It just opened a window with 0 items if you took out the cartridge and still tried to open the device. He said that he was working on a SMARTPORT version of the cartridge drive which would be much more intelligent and allow on-line dismounting of cartridges (thus I could do what I want to do!).. He told me at AppleFest it would probably be ON THE MARKET in somewhere around 6 months. Since then I have found out more about this 20 megabyte 3.5" SCSI drive that will come out first or second quarter next year. I'm going to write to them to see if their disks can be dismounted without rebooting.. If they can I'll probably get one of those drives, as the drive costs about the same as the CMS one (mail order price for CMS) and the 20 megabyte disks are only $10 apiece. If anyone wants any more info about the drive just mentioned, mail me. -- unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu
rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) (11/20/89)
In article <5879@lindy.Stanford.EDU> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > > At AppleFest, I spoke to an engineer from CMS. I don't believe >he actually created their SCSI card since it's been around for a while, but >he is the one that made their removable hard drive work on the Apple line. I don't know who you talked to but one of the people in the CMS booth dismounted an mounted disks with a CMS driver and SCSI card. They used a CDA to mount the new cartridge. Rick Fincher rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (11/20/89)
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > Well, the engineer explained it all to me, although I've forgotten >much of it now, so the following simple explanation is probably wrong in >many respects. At AppleFest, the drive could only give back one of four >responses if access is made. Of those four, only an I/O error was appropriate >when a cartridge was taken out (under any circumstances from what I >remember). He showed me what happened under System 5.0. It just opened >a window with 0 items if you took out the cartridge and still tried to open >the device. He said that he was working on a SMARTPORT version of the >cartridge drive which would be much more intelligent and allow on-line >dismounting of cartridges (thus I could do what I want to do!).. > >unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu [lots of stuff deleted to save bandwidth] Unless CMS supplies a GS/OS loaded driver for their card, which they currently do not, they get a generated driver (GS/OS makes one up for them). They ge the highest level of generated driver they can (if their card supports Extended SmartPort, they get that; else they get SmartPort, or if they don't support that, they get ProDOS Block Device). A ProDOS Block Device has four possible return values when called. They are, (without numerical equivalents): * No Device Connected * I/O error * Write Protected * Device off-line It is the fourth code that should be returned for a removable system to let GS/OS know the device exists but there's no media in it. That's how the 3.5" drives work. That's how the CD-ROM works (and it's SCSI). That's how every removable device works. If they didn't return "device off-line", I can imagine they were having some problems. The SCSI Manager also allows for removable devices (obviously, since the CD-ROM works with it just fine). However, when the Manager makes a SCSI call to see if the device is removable [Note: I'm just guessing here; I know it figures out somehow that devices are removable and I seem to remember some kind of SCSI inquiry that allows this determination], they have to respond correctly. During development of 5.0, we had problems with some hard drives not working with the SCSI Manager; it turned out that the drives in question wer responding to SCSI inquiries with totally bogus values (such as "I don't support reading or writing"). The Manager has to assume a basic set of characteristics (like all devices must be read-enabled) for GS/OS to work, so that's what it does. If this removable drive returns bogus SCSI values, then the Manager probably assumes a default set of characteristics, including the (likely) chance that it is not removable. I've seen removable hard drives work with 5.0's SCSI Manager in our lab. I know it's possible. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (11/20/89)
In article <4584@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: >I don't know who you talked to but one of the people in the CMS booth >dismounted an mounted disks with a CMS driver and SCSI card. They >used a CDA to mount the new cartridge. > >Rick Fincher >rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but I was talking about the capability of mounting and dismounting from within the Finder. The "0 files" window situation happened when a cartridge was just TAKEN OUT when the finder was running then the corresponding cartridge's icon was opened. Having a CDA to switch cartridges doesn't seem to be very EASY or plausible when trying to backup many megs from one cartridge to another. It might very well not even be possible for some reason or another. -- unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu
lunatic@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU (Lunatic) (11/20/89)
]['m afraid you've replied to the wrong person. I'm Lunatic. I write
replies to a lot of questions for help and make (hopefully) helpful
suggestions. I also have a big text graphic "Lunatic" in my .signature.
The person you want is unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu. He asks questions, flames
and occasionally make a few helpful suggestions. <grin> (We're friends
here at UCSC, and I don't always approve of what he posts. :) I shall
forward your mail on to him, though, so you do not need to re-send it.
- lunatic@ucscb.ucsc.edu (: