macduff@cbnewse.ATT.COM (Roger R. Espinosa) (11/09/89)
In article <113300145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > Start out with the Macintosh. Sure, the high resolution is nice, but where's > the color? You say it's in the Mac II? For the price of a Mac II, you could > buy a fairly nice car. (Or a truck. I saw a Mac IIcx advertised with a list > price of $16000. My father paid less for his Chevy S-10 Blazer--and it's > pretty nice. What gives?) Consider the so-called "workstation monitor" that > I saw in MacUser yesterday. The 21-inch grayscale monitor and interface cost > $3000. Get real! For that price, I could get a IIGS and load it! Some of > the software for the Mac leaves a lot to be desired, too. I've had several > DAs crash the system for me--and then sometimes the system itself crashes! > The "Sorry, a system error occurred" dialog box may or may not work, depending > (so it seems) on the mood the computer is in. I don't need that from a > computer. Finally, the software is ridiculously priced. $750 for MPW? > I paid a paltry $50 for the MicroSPARC Assembler, and Applesoft is built in to > every II. > Yes, you can load a IIGS for $3000, but you *aren't* *getting* *anywhere* *near* the same functionality as a Mac II with a color screen. Hey, let's add more colors ... wait! The RESOLUTION STAYS THE SAME! Jeez. From what I've gathered via the net, NEITHER the IIGS or the Amiga can make that claim. Expensive? Yes. But they're not the same, and can't even be compared. $750 for MPW? Hardly, I'm sorry. Mine came with TML Pascal for $150. Even from APDA it's far less than $750 if all you're going to compare it with is the MicroSPARC Assembler. And me, I love MPW, even though there are cheaper languages avaiable; the UNIX-flavor of MPW is wonderful; *I* love it. Get real. Anything on the high-end of technology costs bucks. ANYTHING. Geez. When the VIC-20 came out it was heralded as being cheap. At $550. My old TI 99/4A cost $200. The disk drive interface (never did buy it) cost >$500. Has anything ever come cheap? > > My IIe has served me well for over four years now. It's gotten me through > high school, and has come with me to college, to go up against the "big boys." > Given a modem, a 3.5" drive, and a few more add-ons, I'm sure the IIe can > "duke it out" against the Mac or (ugh!) any MS-DOS machine to come down the > pike. If I ever get another computer, it will probably be a IIGS. The > competition simply doesn't impress me. My //c served me through college, too. When I decided that I really wanted to program in Pascal and C, though, there weren't too many options open to me. I played with Kyan Pascal for a year, and although I really enjoyed it, trying to use double hires graphics always killed the projects memorywise. I decided I didn't want to redefine the mouse-interface, and bought an SE. Why not a IIGS? Because, geez, everything I kept reading was that it was slow as sin. Because when I went to try a word processor, it kinda grinded to a halt. Because, geez, I'm kinda useless when it came to color, and decided that slow speed + software that was still acheing for a umbrella interface wasn't worth it. And I'm not trying to put the IIGS down, really. Different computers serve different needs. I can't understand why people still hold to the "One Computer For Everything" metaphor. Geez. Louise. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ! Scott Alfter ! Go ! McCoy: ...they don't exactly like you. ! > ! alftersoft@uiuc.edu ! Illini ! Kirk: I know, Bones. The feeling's mutual. ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Espinosa rre@ihlpn.ATT.COM Hm. I seem to recall lotsa // programs that died, too, when new models were introduced because of the "HEY! LET'S IGNORE THE APPLE GUIDELINES" philosophy. The Mac has guidelines, too, but people break them, and *that's* the cause of lots of system failures, especially these days when the Mac system is maturing rapidly.
bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) (11/09/89)
In-Reply-To: message from dlyons@apple.com >> By the way, I just received some very lovely marketing mail from Apple in my >> mailbox, very slick advertising. The first piece that I received which was 2 >> days ago was a very slick, very glossy flyer on why I should go out to my >> local dealer and bring a Mac II, IIcx or Mac SE home for a test drive until >> January 15th at no charge to me. No mention of bringing home a GS. > > I haven't seen that flyer, but my understanding is that the GS *is* part of > that offer. If the GS is part of that offer, it wasn't readily descernable. All I saw were mentions of the Mac units and pictures of Macs. If the GS was mentioned, it must of been in the fine print. I didn't completly analyse the brouchure, I just scanned over it like the normal mail reading public would do. -- Bob _________________________ Pro-Graphics 201/469-0049 __________________________ InterNet: bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com | ProLine: bobl@pro-graphics UUCP: ..crash!pro-graphics!bobl | CServe: 70347,2344 ARPA/DDN: ..crash!pro-graphics!bobl@nosc.mil | Amer. Online: Graphics3D ___________ ____________ Raven Enterprises - 25 Raven Ave. Piscataway, NJ 08854
estell@m.cs.uiuc.edu (11/09/89)
/* Written 1:33 pm Nov 6, 1989 by bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com in m.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.apple */ In-Reply-To: message from garym@pro-fishunt.cts.com <stuff deleted here...> >Today I recieved another piece of mail from Apple. Very slick envelope with a >pull tab (don't need a letter opener) inside is a nice coverletter with the >huge heading "Get cash back when you buy a new Apple." It goes through a >bunch prose about how I've seen the results of using my Apple to turn a profit >and how I can get cash back on peripherals if I purchase a "qualifying" Apple >system. Well, I can tell you right now there was no mention of ANY // series >system as being a qualifying system. You missed the fine print. On the back of the glossy fold-out and also on the back of the "Save this card." insert, in *very small* letters, they mention that one of the computers that qualify for the Apple Free Trial Run is the Apple IIGS. That is the *only* place the Apple IIGS is mentioned - throughout the rest of the highly-profiled stuff Apple leads you to believe that only various flavors of Macintoshes are available through this offer. Deceptive garbage such as this makes me more likely to *not* buy a Mac for my next computer, or to recommend that a Mac be purchased. >Doesn't this say anything to you people?? Don't you see what's happening. If >you don't, then I guess anyone who says anything the least bit negative about >how the Marketing department is handling the // line is blowing hot air. /* End of text from m.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.apple */ Unfortunately, the message is coming through loud and clear.... I'm just grateful that there are people at Apple who do care about the // (as well as giving us the best tech. support in the business - thanks to the folks at DTS - your efforts are highly appreciated). John Estell CS Dept - Univ of Illinois
jg108@umd5.umd.edu (Martin Walser) (11/10/89)
In article <113300145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > Start out with the Macintosh. Sure, the high resolution is nice, but where's > the color? You say it's in the Mac II? For the price of a Mac II, you could > buy a fairly nice car. (Or a truck. I saw a Mac IIcx advertised with a list > price of $16000. My father paid less for his Chevy S-10 Blazer--and it's > pretty nice. What gives?) First off, this statement in fairly inaccurate. Here at Maryland, a student can get a Mac IIcx LOADED with all kinds of stuff for under $4500. I mean, the whole 9 yards. 40meg hard drive, color monitor/card, 4megs RAM, some software, printer, etc.... Right now it's the IIci <--- note the "i" that's the big bucks machine because of all the latest stuff it's got. But that price will come down in time. Also, software is not as expensive as you make it out to be. I have a Mac II that I've invested about $6000 in but it has everything I need for the time being. Tons of software, multi-tasking ability and <zoooom!> speed. >My IIe has served me well for over four years now. It's gotten me through >high school, and has come with me to college, to go up against the "big boys." >Given a modem, a 3.5" drive, and a few more add-ons, I'm sure the IIe can >"duke it out" against the Mac or (ugh!) any MS-DOS machine to come down the >pike. If I ever get another computer, it will probably be a IIGS. The >competition simply doesn't impress me. Woo! Hefty words there. :-) I had a //c all through high school but as a comp- sci major I knew I'd need something that could really pull the workload. Even though one could do alot with the old //'s (like mine) and probably even more with the GS, you really can't make hard-core comparisons like that until you actually sit down with BOTH a Mac and a GS and USE them... not just gloss over some of the basic features, truly USE them. I had my heart set on a GS toward the end of high school until I actually sat down with a Mac. (There was one at work that I used on/off). And it really redefined my views. Now I wouldn't give up my Mac for 10 GS's or even MS-DOS machines (shudder). (Well, ok, I'd sell them and upgrade even further, but that's beside the point). But then, that's my opinion. If the GS suits your needs, then by all means it is the computer to buy, but if you do decide to get a new computer, go into a purchase with an open mind. Martin (jg108@umd5.umd.edu)
ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (11/11/89)
In-Reply-To: message from crdgw1!zaire!rankins@uunet.uu.net I've a friend with an Amiga and sign on to his board from time to time to chat. Browsing the comments guess what I see. ' Why doesn't Commodore provide cheaper expansion', ' I can get an IBM drive cheaper than the C= one', 'Why isn't any Mac software ported over yet?', 'Why isn't the 1000 still supported?'. An IBM conference on another board complained about the lack of sound quality, ease of use and general unreliability of certain clones. I guess the grass really is 'greener on the other side of the fence'. Everyone complains about what their particular machine can't do, but don't accept that the machine that can do it can't do something you are already doing. All designs accept trade-offs. IBM designed their machines for business, sound is low on business want lists, ease of use is also low since MIS takes care of training anyway (they have for years). The Amiga is designed for the Home/Entertainment market and thus lacks much of the connectivity for use in business. The Mac wass designed in response to the PC (i'm gonna get letters for that!) and all Mac's thus easy to use and connect, but difficult to expand (until recently). I guess you only see the crabgrass in the lawn when you're standing in it.
huang@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (Howard Huang) (11/11/89)
In article <5595@umd5.umd.edu> jg108@umd5.umd.edu (Martin Walser) writes: Somebody else (I erased the name, sorry) writes: >>My IIe has served me well for over four years now. It's gotten me through >>high school, and has come with me to college, to go up against the "big boys." Martin says: >Woo! Hefty words there. :-) I had a //c all through high school but as a comp- >sci major I knew I'd need something that could really pull the workload. I'm a computer science major too, and a lot of the work we do is on mainframes, not micros. Not even the Mac IIci can "pull the workload!" All I need is a machine to act as a terminal between me and the VAX, which any Apple II would be perfect for. I think this may be true for a lot of students. The Mac does have an advantage in graphics: VersaTerm has the ability to emulate a Tektronix graphics terminal, while I haven't seen any Apple II program do that yet. >... you really can't make hard-core comparisons like that until you >actually sit down with BOTH a Mac and a GS and USE them... not just gloss over >some of the basic features, truly USE them. I've used both extensively and I still prefer the IIgs. >But then, that's my opinion. If the GS suits your needs, then by all means it >is the computer to buy, but if you do decide to get a new computer, go into >a purchase with an open mind. Ditto. >Martin (jg108@umd5.umd.edu) Howard C. Huang huang@husc4.harvard.edu huang@husc4.BITNET huang@husc4.UUCP
scorpio@pro-harvest.cts.com (Robert Scorpio) (11/11/89)
In-Reply-To: message from rankins@zaire.crd.ge.com Hear, hear, Ray! I, too, am a happy IIGS owner.. and I am majoring in computer science, so I do know what's out there and what it can do. To the fellow who said, "What's a matter boy can't handle a man's computer?", I have a few things to say. First off, if you must constantly insult and put down other users choice of computer equipment, you must not be very content or secure about your own choice in equipment. A Also, many things that an IBM can accomplish at 12-15 mhz, the GS can accomplish at a mere 2.8. Raw processor speed doesn't mean diddly. Its what that processor does that counts. rs
daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (11/11/89)
In-Reply-To: message from rankins@zaire.crd.ge.com Hear, hear, Ray! I, too, am a happy IIGS owner.. and I am majoring in computer science, so I do know what's out there and what it can do. To the fellow who said, "What's a matter boy can't handle a man's computer?", I have a few things to say. $First off, if you must constantly insult and put down other users cloice of$computer equipment, you must not be very content or secure about your own choice in$equipment. A Also, many things that an IBM can accomplish at 12-15 mhz, the GS can accomplish at a mere 2.<. Raw processor speed doesn't mean diddly. Its what that processor does that counts. rs
jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) (11/12/89)
(This is from a IIc, then IIgs owner) Scott, I'm glad you can get all the use you need out of your IIe. That's why I started with a IIc and went up to the IIgs. It's been my policy to find the software I need first, and then buy the computer that runs it. But now the software I need is HyperCard, and there's *nothing* like it for the II. If the rumor about HyperCard for the IIgs is true, then a lot of third party companies are gonna make some money when I rev of my system. Until then I have to figure out what to do with this dust that keeps collecting on my gs. *
rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) (11/13/89)
In article <5595@umd5.umd.edu> jg108@umd5.umd.edu (Martin Walser) writes: >can get a Mac IIcx LOADED with all kinds of stuff for under $4500. I mean, the >whole 9 yards. 40meg hard drive, color monitor/card, 4megs RAM, some software, >printer, etc.... Right now it's the IIci <--- note the "i" that's the big bucks A similar IIgs would be under $2,500 retail, if Apple had educational prices for the IIgs it would be less than $1,500. >with the GS, you really can't make hard-core comparisons like that until you >actually sit down with BOTH a Mac and a GS and USE them... not just gloss over I'm a programmer and I own both a IIgs and a Mac SE. My IIgs is much more flexible and faster with a TransWarp than my SE. It's just more fun to use too. I only crank up the SE when I have to program something on it. Some folks don't even have $4,500 to spend on a computer so we are talking about two vastly different price ranges here. Rick rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu
rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) (11/13/89)
In article <3129@husc6.harvard.edu> huang@husc4.UUCP (Howard Huang) writes: > >The Mac does have an advantage in graphics: VersaTerm has the ability >to emulate a Tektronix graphics terminal, while I haven't seen any >Apple II program do that yet. There used to be a program called TekTerm II that emulated some of the monochrome Tek terminals on the Apple II. Rick rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu
saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/13/89)
dlyons@apple.com wrote:
!In article <4313.apple_ii.info-apple@pro-graphics> bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) writes:
!>[...]
!>By the way, I just received some very lovely marketing mail from Apple in my
!>mailbox, very slick advertising. The first piece that I received which was 2
!>days ago was a very slick, very glossy flyer on why I should go out to my
!>local dealer and bring a Mac II, IIcx or Mac SE home for a test drive until
!>January 15th at no charge to me. No mention of bringing home a GS.
!
!I haven't seen that flyer, but my understanding is that the GS *is* part of
!that offer.
I saw a paragraph the other day in U.S. News & World Report. It does say that
the GS is included in this offer.
Note, however, that neither the IIe nor the IIc Plus are included in this
offer. Might this mean anything?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
! Scott Alfter ! Go ! McCoy: ...they don't like you very much. !
! alftersoft@uiuc.edu ! Illini ! Kirk: I know, Bones. The feeling's mutual. !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (11/13/89)
In article <4514@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: > >>can get a Mac IIcx LOADED with all kinds of stuff for under $4500. I mean, the >>whole 9 yards. 40meg hard drive, color monitor/card, 4megs RAM, some software, >>printer, etc.... Right now it's the IIci <--- note the "i" that's the big bucks > >A similar IIgs would be under $2,500 retail, if Apple had educational prices >for the IIgs it would be less than $1,500. > Ahem...Apple *does* have educational prices for all its products. Most people just don't happen to be schools. >Rick >rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (11/13/89)
In article <113300149@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Note, however, that neither the IIe nor the IIc Plus are included in this >offer. Might this mean anything? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >! Scott Alfter ! Go ! McCoy: ...they don't like you very much. ! >! alftersoft@uiuc.edu ! Illini ! Kirk: I know, Bones. The feeling's mutual. ! >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it might. It might mean Apple's promotion people felt the IIe and IIc Plus would not benefit or did not need the advantages offered by a holiday promotional campaign. You didn't point out that the Mac Plus, Portable and IIci are also not included in the campaign. When I came to Apple, people told me that every move would be analyzed to death and I didn't believe it. I guess I was just naive. The only thing I haven't heard proposed yet is that the Apple Executive Staff are all secret members of the Illuminati. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (11/13/89)
On Mon, 13 Nov 89 14:47:00 GMT you said: >Ahem...Apple *does* have educational prices for all its products. Most people >just don't happen to be schools. Even though I'm NOT a 'school,' I can use my Universitty ID to purchase (once every 5 years or some such) a PS/2, Zenith PC (the laptops are attractively priced) or a <tah, tah> Macintosh (as can ANY student or member of the faculty or staff). I haven't asked if the IIgs is on the list from Apple, but the gist of other messages I've seen is that it's not. You seem to be saying that a SCHOOL (K-12?) can get a discoount on a IIgs but NOT a student majoring in education (which WOULD mean that the NEXT generation of school purchases is likely to be PS/2 Model 30-286's or Zeniths -- educationally satisfactory and MUCH less expensive than comparable Mac-SE's <I doubt you can foist Mac+'s off on the next generation of teachers>). Mac's are very nice, but there's the reality of school district budgets. The local elementary schools here bought a bunch of Commodore 64's on the "more bang for the buck" principle (the elementary schools are happy with LOGO, the Bank Street Writer, Print Shop, and the Carmen San Diego series). If the middle school were to ask, I'd recommend Laser 128's (although the local middle school HAS been buying IIgs's, they run little software that won't run on the Laser's AND they can't afford nearly enough IIgs's for classroom instruction -- the teachers mostly use the IIgs's with DataView projectors). /s Murph <Sewall%UConnVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu> [Internet] or ...{psuvax1 or mcvax}!uconnvm.bitnet!sewall [UUCP] + Standard disclaimer applies ("The opinions expressed are my own" etc.)
rnf@shumv1.uucp (Rick Fincher) (11/14/89)
In article <36423@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >>A similar IIgs would be under $2,500 retail, if Apple had educational prices >>for the IIgs it would be less than $1,500. >> >Ahem...Apple *does* have educational prices for all its products. Most people >just don't happen to be schools. > By "educational prices" I meant student discounts like those available for the Mac, I should have been more precise. BTW- Why doesn't Apple include the IIgs in that program? It would be great for hardware experimentation and learning among other things. Rick rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu
anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) (11/14/89)
In article <36423@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >In article <4514@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: >> >>A similar IIgs would be under $2,500 retail, if Apple had educational prices >>for the IIgs it would be less than $1,500. >> >Ahem...Apple *does* have educational prices for all its products. Most people >just don't happen to be schools. Ahem...my school claims that they cannot get Apple II stuff, only Macs. I'm not sure if they mean for the school or for students, but either way it seems a bit screwed to me. -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-anarch@dartmouth.edu+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ There is no governor anywhere;|Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall, you are all absolutely free. |And universal darkness buries all. D I S C L A I M E R : E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E
rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) (11/14/89)
In article <16865@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) writes: >In article <36423@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >>In article <4514@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: >>> >>>A similar IIgs would be under $2,500 retail, if Apple had educational prices >>>for the IIgs it would be less than $1,500. >>> >>Ahem...Apple *does* have educational prices for all its products. Most people >>just don't happen to be schools. > >Ahem...my school claims that they cannot get Apple II stuff, only Macs. I'm not >sure if they mean for the school or for students, but either way it seems a bit >screwed to me. Prior to joining Apple, I was a student rep for Apple at UCLA. I worked in the computer store there as well. At the time I was there, no Apple II family computer was available for personal purchase by a student or faculty or staff member through the Higher Education Purchase Program offered by Apple. On the other hand, the institution itself (UCLA in my case), could purchase Apple II family computers through the Higher Education Purchase Program for institutional use. I will leave it to others at Apple to explain why this is the case. Rick Fleischman Developer Channels/APDA Apple Computer, Inc. e-mail: rickf@apple.com AppleLink: FLEISCHMAN@applelink.apple.com
kreme@netcom.UUCP (Lewis Butler) (11/14/89)
In article <36426@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >When I came to Apple, people told me that every move would be analyzed to death >and I didn't believe it. I guess I was just naive. The only thing I haven't >heard proposed yet is that the Apple Executive Staff are all secret members >of the Illuminati. You mean they're not? I always assumed the Executive staff at IBM where part of Discodia, and the Illuminati surely must have control of one of the other computer companies. I sure hope it isn't Commiedor... -- | apple!netcom!kreme |All the towns in America and I have to move to | |The real cycle you're |the Bermuda Triangle. Nightmare on Elm Street | |working on is a cycle |Why do they fear the sunless lands? It is as | |called yourself. |natural to die as it is to be born. Sandman | | Robert Pirsig |WARNING:THESE OPINIONS ARE HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED|
bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) (11/14/89)
In article <113300149@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >dlyons@apple.com wrote: >!In article <4313.apple_ii.info-apple@pro-graphics> bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) writes: >!>[...] >!>By the way, I just received some very lovely marketing mail from Apple in my >!>mailbox, very slick advertising. The first piece that I received which was 2 >!>days ago was a very slick, very glossy flyer on why I should go out to my >!>local dealer and bring a Mac II, IIcx or Mac SE home for a test drive until >!>January 15th at no charge to me. No mention of bringing home a GS. >! >!I haven't seen that flyer, but my understanding is that the GS *is* part of >!that offer. >I saw a paragraph the other day in U.S. News & World Report. It does say that >the GS is included in this offer. >Note, however, that neither the IIe nor the IIc Plus are included in this >offer. Might this mean anything? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >! Scott Alfter ! Go ! McCoy: ...they don't like you very much. ! >! alftersoft@uiuc.edu ! Illini ! Kirk: I know, Bones. The feeling's mutual. ! >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah yes, we have received several of those slick advertising things signed by the President of Apple USA, and I might suggest you do with yours what we are going to do with ours.. Send them right back to the person that signed them, and tell him that if he feels it is beneath him to affix his signature to a document containing the words Apple II or Apple GS that he do two things.. Keep his "junk" mail, and resign the position since it is clear from the letter that either he dosen't know his own product line and/or care about it, nor does he even know the details of the very promotion he is writing about.. In addition, as Apple owners we feel offended and slighted.. We are also going to send copies of the letter we enclose to him to the various Apple II publications, and perhaps to Business Wire, the same service Apple uses to reach editors world wide with their financial disclosure information as required by the SEC... Perhaps if a few editors run with it, not only will he get a message, but so will the stockholders.. If you don't like our ideas, fine, come up with one of your own, but do SOMETHING... Let's not take this outright kick in the pants sitting down.. -- bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL: BSHERMAN >> Miami's Big Apple - 305-948-8000 - 24 hours - 300/1200 - PCP'able << >> Oldest Apple support board in Southeast. Now in it's ninth year. <<
danr@pro-tcc.cts.com (Dan Roberts) (11/14/89)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@apple.com
I never took amy marketing classes but I did spend some time in the retail
world. All this discussion of the Apple Fall Promotion is interesting. Has
anyone considered what I always thought was generally true. ie. One promotes
the products he needs to move. If something is selling like hotcakes without
promotion and at a higher price the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut
and rake in the dough. If you are sitting on a warehouse's full of unsold
inventory you pump it with all the promotion you can.
Just a thought.
Dan
------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Roberts Proline: danr@pro-tcc
50 East Mound Street CI$: 71271,1437
Columbus OH 43215 INET: danr@pro-tcc.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pnet01!pro-tcc!danrprl3546@tahoma.UUCP (Philip R. Lindberg) (11/15/89)
From article <0.apple.info-apple@pro-fishunt>, by garym@pro-fishunt.cts.com (Gary McClain): > Maybe I'm a kid at heart, but I'm a happy Apple II owner, and don't > apologize for it either. Am I the only one? I'm a happy Apple II owner too. > Proline: garym@pro-fishunt +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | Grampa says when he was a kid they did math with a trig. book| | Phil Lindberg snail mail: 13845 S.E. 131 ST | | UUCP: ..!uunet!bcstec!tahoma!prl3546 Renton, WA 98056 | | Disclaimer: I don't speak for my employer (and I not | | sure they even know I exist....) | +--------------------------------------------------------------+
dkl@pro-houston.cts.com (David Karl Leikam) (11/15/89)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@apple.com In CS-ID: #2646.cortland/info-apple@pro-houston mattd@apple.com (Matt Deatherage) writes >When I came to Apple, people told me that every move would be analyzed to >death and I didn't believe it. I guess I was just naive. The only thing I >haven't heard proposed yet is that the Apple Executive Staff are all secret >members of the Illuminati. Ummm. I almost hate to mention this, but the last Illuminati deck I saw, _had_ an Apple Computer Co. card in it. This may have been homegrown, but... UUCP: crash!pro-houston!dkl ARPA: crash!pro-houston!dkl@nosc.mil INET: dkl@pro-houston.cts.com
dkl@pro-houston.cts.com (David Karl Leikam) (11/15/89)
In GS-ID: #2646.cortland/info-appleDpro-houston mattd@apple.com (Matt Deatherage) writes >When I came to Apple, people told me that every move would be analyzed to >death and I didn't believe i|. I guess I was just naive. Tle only thing I >haven't heard pvoposed yet is that the Apple Executive Staff are all secret >memberw of the$Illuminati. Ummm. I almost hate to mention this, but the last Illuminati deck I saw, _had_ an Apple Computer Co. card in it. This may have been homegrown, but... UUCP: crash!pro-houston!dkl ARPA: crash!pro-houston!dkl@nosc.mil INET: dkl@pro-houston.cts.com
mikes@shumv1.uucp (Michael Steele) (11/18/89)
In article <16865@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) writes: >In article <36423@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >>In article <4514@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: >>> >>>A similar IIgs would be under $2,500 retail, if Apple had educational prices >>>for the IIgs it would be less than $1,500. >>> >>Ahem...Apple *does* have educational prices for all its products. Most people >>just don't happen to be schools. > >Ahem..my school claims that they cannot get Apple II stuff, only Macs. I'm not >sure if they mean for the school or for students, but either way it seems a bit >screwed to me. ************* Flame thrower on! (look out marketing types!)********** Ohh yes, I went through this argument with the Marketing fiends at the Boston Applefest. I go to NC STATE University and they sell LOTS of Macs here, but know nothing of the GS's! Of course Apple gives them the option of selling the GS's but certainly doesn't suggest doing so. ALL of the Apple marketing in this area is geared toward the Mac. It disgusts me to see the Mac being pushed so fervently toward students who can't afford them...even at the cut rate prices offered. A GS would give a student a sufficient amount of power at an affordable price. OF Course Apple can't have college students running around with GS's though! "They just aren't powerful enough to handle a college demands!" The NCSU music department bought 3 GS's to use in sound training but abanded them when the local Apple dealer (really a Mac dealer) told them the GS's were "useless, not powerful enough" and suggested they buy Macs!!!!!!! So the music department has to wait a couple of years before they can get enough money to purchase these more "powerful" Macs! I commend people like Matt and other AIIDTS folks on the net who further the GS "cause". The people at fault are the marketing slime who evidently run Apple Corporate now! My only cause for hope is that the new Developers Association will be able to convince marketing that the GS really is a viable solution for small businesses and students as well as the K-12 market. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Steele mikes@shumv1.ncsu.edu mikes@ccvr1.ncsu.edu ALINK: MikeSteele mikes@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu BITNET: netoprms@ncsuvm.bitnet
lbotez@pnet02.gryphon.com (Lynda Botez) (11/20/89)
Michael Steele writes: >I commend people like Matt and other AIIDTS folks on the net who further >the GS cause. The people at fault are the marketing slime who evidently >run Apple Corporate now! ... Gulp... Those are rather harsh words to bandy about [not that I'm fond of Apple marketing either, but still...] :-) This Apple II/Macintosh dispute has been going on ever since the Macintosh was introduced. The Apple II division wasn't exactly fond of the Macintosh when it first came around either. However; I truely believe Apple has come to their senses, and will hopefully redefine the marketing strategy for the IIGS. We're not just schools; there is a viable home market out there just waiting to be sold on the Apple IIGS. I understand there are a few Apple IIGS commercials being shown around the country (anyone on the net seen one?). I think it was in Houston, or something. Apple apparently has a run a few television commercials in cities where they feel people would invest in an Apple II. If you live in New York or LA, forget it. It's Mac city (at least that's what marketing believes). Why can't they see that the two machines can co-exist with each other? Hey, some people even buy BOTH! I also heard a rumor that Apple has actually HIRED a couple of new marketing people. Change is *perhaps* in the air. Lynda UUCP: {ames!elroy, <routing site>}!gryphon!pnet02!lbotez INET: lbotez@pnet02.gryphon.com
jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) (11/21/89)
This is presented as an example (counterexample?) At my educational institution (Baylor College of Medicine) Apple gives an educational discount which includes both faculty and students, and also includes both Mac's and GS's. *
prl3546@tahoma.UUCP (Philip R. Lindberg) (11/22/89)
From article <4422.apple_ii.info-apple@pro-graphics>, by bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury): > In-Reply-To: message from dlyons@apple.com > >>> By the way, I just received some very lovely marketing mail from Apple in my >>> [...] No mention of bringing home a GS. >> >> I haven't seen that flyer, but my understanding is that the GS *is* part of >> that offer. > > If the GS is part of that offer, it wasn't readily descernable. All I saw > were mentions of the Mac units and pictures of Macs. If the GS was mentioned, > it must of been in the fine print. I didn't completly analyse the brouchure, > -- Bob I heard an ad for this on the radio (Seattle,Wa.) and was please that each time they mentioned the computer types available they said both MAC *AND* Apple IIgs ! , (not just IIgs, but Apple IIgs). This was done atleast three times and I was listening closely because of the conversations here on the net. **************************************************************************** Maybe you guys should move out of your "MAC" states, and up here into "Apple II country"! 8-) **************************************************************************** Phil +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | Grampa says when he was a kid they did math with a trig. book| | Phil Lindberg snail mail: 13845 S.E. 131 ST | | UUCP: ..!uunet!bcstec!tahoma!prl3546 Renton, WA 98056 | | Disclaimer: I don't speak for my employer (and I not | | sure they even know I exist....) | +--------------------------------------------------------------+
ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.COM (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (11/22/89)
In-Reply-To: message from shumv1!mikes@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu The official word in the frozen north is that apple //'s are for K-8, Mac's 9-death. This was as of Feb. 89, might K-3 by now. Fact is Apple Canada does realize that the // is made by their company ( never did carry the //c+ and have now discounted the c and e). If Buffalo weren't so close, I'd likely not have an apple today.
cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) (11/26/89)
Guys! Look, if Apple can try to kick out the Apple II line today, then there is a probability of 1 (which is 100%) that Apple will kick out their Macs TOMORROW! Am I wrong? I dunno, but the human history showed that it is always like that.