Les_Ferch.@MTSG.UBC.CA (12/19/89)
>>Les Ferch.@MTSG.UBC.CA writes: >> >>The reason I was looking for reboot code is to write a program or >>programs that will automatically (and hopefully properly) switch my >>operating environment on my hard drive between plain ProDOS 8 and >>GS/OS. >> >>The idea is to have the GSOS "ProDOS" file and the "P8" file on the >>root directory along with my reboot program(s). To go from GSOS to >>ProDOS 8 only, the reboot program would rename "ProDOS" to "GSOS" >>and "P8" to "ProDOS" and then reboot or do an OS Shutdown call. To >>go from ProDOS 8 to GSOS, just basically reverse the process. >rmichel@pro-grouch.cts.com replies: > >Here's a quite simple method of accomplishing about the same thing: > >1. Set up a GSOS system disk; rename the PRODOS file to GSOS.GO >2. Place P8 in your root directory of your boot disk; rename it to > PRODOS >3. Add BASIC.SYSTEM to the root directory. (It must be the first > .SYSTEM file) >4. Write a simple BASIC program called STARTUP to choose either > GSOS, BASIC, or your favorite ProDOS8 program selector (I > simply use Bird's Better Bye). >Mark Munz also replies: > >I boot into Prodos 8 (real quick!!) and run a little basic program >that asks me what OS I want. If I choose Prodos 8, it runs Prosel >for me, if I choose GS/OS, it runs "GSOS" for me which starts up the >famed slow boot :-) Yup, that's what I used to do, but there are TWO good reasons not to do that... Reason #1: If you use Appletalk from ProDOS 8 (by enabling Appletalk and placing the file ATINIT on the route directory) so you can print to a LaserWriter from classic AppleWorks without using GSOS, the Finder will hang when you try to load GSOS from ProDOS 8. Reason #2: Apple's "official" response is that warm booting GSOS from ProDOS 8 is, "unsupported and walking on very very thin ice". "A cold boot (Open-Apple-Control-Reset -or- power on) must be used to move from a ProDOS 8 boot to a GS/OS boot". My correspondence with Apple on this matter via TechLink in Vancouver, Canada follows: ------------------------------------------------------------------- By | LES FERCH To | Tech Support Subj | Launching GSOS from ProDOS 8 Date | 22-OCT-89 19:53 I want to have my hard drive equipped GS boot into ProDOS 8 and run a simple program selector (I'm using Bird's Better Bye), but I want to be able to launch GSOS easily on demand. I installed GSOS 5.0 and it works fine if I boot straight into it, but if I rename ProDOS to GSOS and then put ProDOS 8 on the drive and boot that way, it doesn't work when I select GSOS from the selector. GSOS starts loading and gets to the desktop where it beeps and then hangs. By | LES FERCH TO | Tech Support Subj | Launching GSOS from ProDOS 8 Date | 24-OCT-89 23:09 Finally, I figured out why I was not able to launch GSOS successfully from ProDOS 8. The reason the Finder hung when I launched GSOS from ProDOS 8 was because I had Appletalk enabled and the file "ATINIT" on my root directory (this is so I can print over Appletalk from classic AppleWorks). So the Appletalk driver was already in memory when I launched GSOS and then (I guess) the Finder died when it tried to load the appletalk driver itself. (or something like that) Anyhow, this bugs me. GSOS should not care what's in memory when it loads, and perhaps should clear memory. The way it is, if I want to run GSOS, I have to delete or rename the "ATINIT" file I have on the root directory and then reboot before launching GSOS. Sure, I could just run GSOS only, but I have lots of good reasons for wanting to only run ProDOS 8 for ProDOS 8 programs, such as quick reboot time when things go wrong. Now if I only knew what needed to be reset or cleared in memory to give GSOS a clean slate before it loads, I could easily make a little launcher program to get GSOS going properly. Help pleeease. By | APPLE TECH To | LES FERCH Subj | Re- Launching P8 from GS/OS Date | 21-NOV-89 13:08 We sent your question to our Technical Communications people in California for a suitably official response: There are several background tasks that are implemented in GS/OS during a cold boot that do not get implemented in the warm boot described in the question. The ATINIT procedure described does not resolve the issue of the background tasks. It is highly recommended this procedure NOT be used. A cold boot (Open-Apple, Control, Reset -or- power on) must be used to move from a ProDOS 8 boot to a GS/OS boot. Any other method will not implement all the required background tasks. The supported method of using both ProDOS 8 and GS/OS on an Apple IIGS is to boot into GS/OS and then launch the desired ProDOS 8 application. Any other method is unsupported. (And they are walking on very, very thin ice if they use another method.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- The above response is not completely clear to me. For instance, what does "The ATINIT procedure described does not resolve the issue of the background tasks" mean? The "ATINIT procedure" I described was for ProDOS 8 only, so what does that have to do with "background tasks"? Also, what is the officially supported method of printing over Appletalk from ProDOS 8 (ie. GSOS NOT loaded)? I think it's pretty clear that my "rename files and then do a P8 restart or GSOS shutdown as per tech note #49" or the Smartboot program are the only methods to completely switch the OS and be guaranteed to work under all conditions. However, some clarification on this matter (perhaps from either Matt or Dave) would be greatly appreciated.
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (12/19/89)
In article <1964701@mtsg.ubc.ca> Les_Ferch.@MTSG.UBC.CA writes: > >The supported method of using both ProDOS 8 and GS/OS on an Apple >IIGS is to boot into GS/OS and then launch the desired ProDOS 8 >application. Any other method is unsupported. (And they are walking >on very, very thin ice if they use another method.) > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >The above response is not completely clear to me. For instance, >what does "The ATINIT procedure described does not resolve the issue >of the background tasks" mean? The "ATINIT procedure" I described >was for ProDOS 8 only, so what does that have to do with "background >tasks"? Also, what is the officially supported method of printing >over Appletalk from ProDOS 8 (ie. GSOS NOT loaded)? > >I think it's pretty clear that my "rename files and then do a P8 >restart or GSOS shutdown as per tech note #49" or the Smartboot >program are the only methods to completely switch the OS and be >guaranteed to work under all conditions. > >However, some clarification on this matter (perhaps from either Matt >or Dave) would be greatly appreciated. ATINIT in the root directory is a method for ProDOS 8 running on a non-GS to get AppleTalk active. *It is not supported on the IIgs and if it works, it's more or less by accident. AppleTalk on the IIgs is only supported by booting into GS/OS.* GS/OS generally refuses to boot if the system isn't the way it thinks it ought to be. For example, it keys off the MSLOT ($7F8) screen hole to know what slot you're booting from (currently, at least). If some interrupt source (like AppleTalk) has things coming in when the system hasn't started up the interrupt manager yet, or if the AppleTalk drivers try to start up when the network thinks they're already there as a different node, or anything else (little and annoying) like that, the boot process will probably fail. If you want to use AppleTalk from your IIgs, you have to boot into GS/OS. That's all we guarantee that will work and that was all that was tested. -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." ============================================================================
Les_Ferch.@MTSG.UBC.CA (12/20/89)
>If you want to use AppleTalk from your IIgs, you have to boot into GS/OS. >That's all we guarantee that will work and that was all that was tested. It's not very good PR to tell us that using ATINIT with ProDOS 8 on a GS is not supported and that we "have to boot into GS/OS", when it certainly does work (at least on a ROM 01 GS). On a GS that only has one 3.5" drive or even just a 5.25" drive and 256K or 512K memory, this is the *only* practical way to print from classic AppleWorks (or any other ProDOS 8 program) to an appletalk connected LaserWriter. Why Apple refuses to support or reccommend a solution to people that works fine I don't know. Perhaps it's just another way to make uninformed users buy more hardware than they really need. The irony is, that I learned of this technique from somebody at Apple!
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (12/20/89)
In article <1967210@mtsg.ubc.ca> Les_Ferch.@MTSG.UBC.CA writes: > >It's not very good PR to tell us that using ATINIT with ProDOS 8 on >a GS is not supported and that we "have to boot into GS/OS", when it >certainly does work (at least on a ROM 01 GS). Well, consider the alternative quote: "Oh, sure <snicker>, that works fine! <chuckle> Try running some really intensive network software over it! <guffaw, guffaw>" I assume you'd rather hear the truth than something more convenient. If this is a bad assumption for network posting, someone please correct me. > On a GS that only >has one 3.5" drive or even just a 5.25" drive and 256K or 512K >memory, this is the *only* practical way to print from classic >AppleWorks (or any other ProDOS 8 program) to an appletalk connected >LaserWriter. Why Apple refuses to support or reccommend a solution >to people that works fine I don't know. Perhaps it's just another >way to make uninformed users buy more hardware than they really >need. The irony is, that I learned of this technique from somebody >at Apple! It "works fine" because you haven't run across a program it doesn't work for. If it works fine for you, then use it. If you try running another network application that dies a horrible death, don't say you weren't warned. Apple doesn't support it because the programming documentation lists a set of more robust AppleTalk calls and vectors that are available on the IIgs under AppleTalk - if you run IIe network software on the IIgs, the software could (and will, in many cases) identify the machine as a IIgs and try to use networking features which should be there but aren't, because you didn't boot GS/OS and let them get loaded. The minimum requirements for networking an Apple II are ProDOS 16 v1.6 and 256K memory (although this is now unsupported, it still works. "Unsupported" means "we're not worried about bugs in it") or 768K of memory and System Software 5.0.2. We don't make these requirements because we like people not using our System Software's capabilities. We make them because trying to jam it into less memory creates unacceptable performance or capability limitations. There are several stock watchers in this news group who will happily inform you that Apple doesn't do it because they own a memory factory. :) -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." ============================================================================