jb6k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joel Bloch) (12/15/89)
Can an old version of an apple C be upgrade to a C+ to take advantage of some of the hardware designed for the C+ like the AMR 3.5 drive
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (12/16/89)
In article <YZWFFIC00Xo1463Esz@andrew.cmu.edu> jb6k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joel Bloch) writes: >Can an old version of an apple C be upgrade to a C+ to take advantage of >some of the hardware designed for the C+ like the AMR 3.5 drive Apple offers no upgrade from older model IIc computers to the IIc Plus. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) (12/16/89)
In article <YZWFFIC00Xo1463Esz@andrew.cmu.edu>, jb6k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joel Bloch) writes: > Can an old version of an apple C be upgrade to a C+ to take advantage of > some of the hardware designed for the C+ like the AMR 3.5 drive I converted my //c into a c++ before the c+ came out. I added a meg of memory, Rocketchip, and Unidisk 3.5 drive. If you just want a 3.5 drive you can get the Unidisk for approximately $350. The Rocketchip will set you back $140 to $200 depending on whether you get the 5mgz or 10 mghz model. On the other hand,you can buy a new //c+ for less than $600 (some people have found them for less than $500). Either way, if you want the added memory you will have to get an expansion card. The c+ speed is either 3.3 or 4 mghz, I forget. Now, back to your original question. I don't know what AMR is. Let me know and if I can find someone who owns it I'll ask them to try it on my machine. One added thing to consider. The c+ has a very versatile disk drive controller. You should be able to plug just about any non-scsi drive into it, including a hard drive. I've only had the opportunity to try a Disk II. The built in 3.5 drive shows up as slot 5 drive one and the external DISK II that I plugged in showed up as 6,1. This is very handy for running old copy- protected software. What's that! Some companies *STILL* use copy protection schemes?!?!?!?! How barbaric! Bob Church att!oucsace!bchurch
cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) (12/16/89)
Actually, I'd like to pay for an upgrade from older //c to //c+ as long as the price wouldn't be too high. It is even more meaningful to us who still own the original //c. I want to get a UniDisk 3.5 but it is so much expensive then Apple Disk 3.5, and is slower.. Beside that, I can only use the VERY EXPENSIVE UniDISK 3.5 which I can't afford... does this make sense? I mean people who has money to buy more expensive computers has option to buy cheaper peripherals while we the poor people who can afford to buy a small computer only, has no option but to buy expensive peripherals... does this make sense? does it? I understand that to upgrade from // to //c+ is not easy since things are quite different from each other, and thats the reason that I said "I'd like to PAY" for an upgrade. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ cyliao@wam.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) | I want Rocket Chip 10 MHz, Z-Ram Ultra II, UniDisk 3.5 | Now, I want my own NeXT, 64 Mb RAM, 660 Mb SCSI, NeXT laser |
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (12/17/89)
In article <1989Dec16.152608.7109@eng.umd.edu> cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) writes: >It is even more meaningful to us who still own the original //c. I want to >get a UniDisk 3.5 but it is so much expensive then Apple Disk 3.5, and is >slower.. Beside that, I can only use the VERY EXPENSIVE UniDISK 3.5 which >I can't afford... does this make sense? I mean people who has money to buy >more expensive computers has option to buy cheaper peripherals while we the >poor people who can afford to buy a small computer only, has no option but >to buy expensive peripherals... does this make sense? does it? > >cyliao@wam.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) | Uh...excuse me, but the last time I checked the price list, the Apple 3.5 Drive and the UniDisk 3.5 cost exactly the same. Perhaps this has changed without my knowledge; I'll look again next week. Even if it has, you can probably find a GS owner somewhere with a UniDisk who will gladly trade you for an Apple 3.5 Drive if you'd care to purchase the latter. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions expressed in this tome Send PERSONAL mail ONLY (please) to: | should not be construed to imply that Amer. Online: Matt DTS | Apple Computer, Inc., or any of its ThisNet: mattd@apple.com | subsidiaries, in whole or in part, ThatNet: (stuff)!ames!apple!mattd | have any opinion on any subject." Other mail by request only, please. | "So there." -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
pnakada@oracle.com (Paul Nakada) (12/17/89)
In article <1989Dec16.152608.7109@eng.umd.edu> cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) writes:
[ stuff deleted ]
It is even more meaningful to us who still own the original //c. I want to
get a UniDisk 3.5 but it is so much expensive then Apple Disk 3.5, and is
slower.. Beside that, I can only use the VERY EXPENSIVE UniDISK 3.5 which
I can't afford... does this make sense? I mean people who has money to buy
more expensive computers has option to buy cheaper peripherals while we the
poor people who can afford to buy a small computer only, has no option but
to buy expensive peripherals... does this make sense? does it?
[ stuff deleted ]
--
cyliao@wam.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) |
From what I've seen, the best bet may be to go with a hard drive. If
and when the CDrive from Applied Ingenuity becomes available, then it
would become a viable alternative to the Unidisk 3.5.
The 3.5 is advertised (discounted from Zimco in A+) for $330. That
will get you 800k 3.5 removeable media (for a theoretically unlimited
amount of storage).
The CDrive is advertised (in A+ from Golem) at $530 for 20 megs and
$655 for 40 megs. These give you ~25 or ~50 worth of 800k floppies,
all online at once. This is a very important feature, because most
non GS applications do not behave well with multiple disks being
swapped in and out, thus limiting disk space per application to about
800k.
Why would you want to buy a Unidisk 3.5?
a) Absolute cost. A UD 3.5 is about half the cost of a //c hard drive
even new and without discount. A used Unidisk (which I bought)
should go for about $200.
b) Macintosh 800k compatibility.. I find it very useful to be able to
use the apple file exchange program on Macs to transfer files
between Macs and my //c. There is also a program which allows
Apples to read nonHFS mac disks.
c) for greater total storage capacity. Say you have 100 megs of files
to archive or something like that where storage requirements exceep
the capacity of a hard drive.
Why you would buy a hard Drive (C Drive 20 or 40 from AI, or
CT20c or CT40c from Chinook)
a) for faster access to larger volumes of data. This means no
swapping of disks.
b) for reasonably high capacity secondary storage. (room enough for a
few often used aplpications (Appleworks, communications, utilities,
DTP, and even a small development environment) This is probably
not (especially with the 20 meg drives) a cost effective way to
archive files (Tech notes, gif pics, etc)
Best bets?
a) somehow find a used Unidisk 3.5 (find a GS owner who bought the
Unidisk for a lot of money and wants more speed and lower price from
an apple clone disk). heck, for $200 bucks you have a 3.5 inch
disk drive that works on a //c, and he can buy a brand new 3.5
clone which is faster. Everybody wins!
b) save save save for that hard drive.. Hopefully by that time someone
will have come up with a smartport to scsi converter (which chinook
has but does not market) for $100 bucks. Somebody please take on
this project!!! I can't stand scsi prices of $300 for 40 megs,
while I putt along with a slow 3.5 drive. (not including my Sun
Sparc of course :-) )
-Paul
pnakada@oracle.combh@pro-lep.cts.com (Brian Hicks) (12/17/89)
In-Reply-To: message from pnakada@oracle.com
Hey! I have a UniDisk 3.5 with a //e controller card that I will let someone
HAVE... if they will buy me an AMR 3.5! Just leave me net-mail, and I will get
back to you!
Brian
_____
UUCP: crash!pro-lep!bh
ARPA: crash!pro-lep!bh@nosc.mil
INET: bh@pro-lep.cts.comspike@world.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) (12/18/89)
In article <PNAKADA.89Dec16174154@pnakada.oracle.com> pnakada@oracle.com (Paul Nakada) writes:
<The 3.5 is advertised (discounted from Zimco in A+) for $330. That
<will get you 800k 3.5 removeable media (for a theoretically unlimited
<amount of storage).
But, some of us have ancient //Cs, and if we where to by a
3.5" disk, would need a mother board or ROM upgrade. As far as I can
tell (an I may be wrong) the only way to get this is to by the disk
from Apple.
->Spike
--
"The World" - Public Access Unix - +1 617-739-9753 24hrs {3,12,24}00bpscyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) (12/19/89)
In article <1989Dec17.202111.8612@world.std.com> spike@world.UUCP (Joe Ilacqua) writes: > > But, some of us have ancient //Cs, and if we where to by a >3.5" disk, would need a mother board or ROM upgrade. As far as I can >tell (an I may be wrong) the only way to get this is to by the disk >from Apple. > >->Spike I did have an ANCIENT //c, by this I mean, 16k original ROM with no ability of connecting a UniDisk3.5. BTW, it had a cristal problem that gave me lots troubles when I bought a modem.... Oh well, that was history. I am really happy when I got my upgrade for free! No, I didn't buy the UniDisk 3.5 as it is so expensive, and I don't like Apple's memory expansion board because it doesn't have a clock. However, if you buy this board from Apple, you can get your //c upgrade to the newer //c that comes with a connector for memory expansion. Therefore, I got a new board with 32k rom and cristal problem fixed, but no memory expansion card connector. It was tricky for me to get such an upgrade... I began with calling Apple Computer and asked Apple Dealers in my area. After 3 or 4 calls to Apple Comp and got called about 10 - 15 Apple Dealers, I finally got one (not in my area though, but close enough for me to get there in 1 hr by Metro or 40 min by car) that was willing to give me an upgrade for free. Others just ignored me or asked me to pay something like $280 to $350 It IS Apple's policy to give free upgrade, the problem is that Dealers don't like free upgrade of hardware specially. (Some dealers told me that they never heard about any company offer free hardware upgrade! ) So to those who still using ANCIENT //c, call Apple and ask for dealers in your area and Good Luck! -- |I want Rocket Chip 10 MHz, Z-Ram Ultra II, UniDisk 3.5 | cyliao@wam.umd.edu | |I want my own NeXT, 64 Mb RAM, 660 Mb SCSI, NeXT laser | Chun Yao Liao | | printer, net connection, software, etc. | Accepting Donations!| /* If (my_.signature =~ yours) coincidence = true; else ignore_this = true; */
pnakada@oracle.com (Paul Nakada) (12/19/89)
In article <1989Dec17.202111.8612@world.std.com> spike@world.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) writes: In article <PNAKADA.89Dec16174154@pnakada.oracle.com> pnakada@oracle.com (Paul Nakada) writes: <The 3.5 is advertised (discounted from Zimco in A+) for $330. That <will get you 800k 3.5 removeable media (for a theoretically unlimited <amount of storage). But, some of us have ancient //Cs, and if we where to by a 3.5" disk, would need a mother board or ROM upgrade. As far as I can tell (an I may be wrong) the only way to get this is to by the disk from Apple. ->Spike I received an upgrade when I bought a modem (non-apple). I would be wary when doing this. I actually got two upgrades. The first time I got a refurbished motherboard which was broken (would not boot a disk). The second time ( I went to a different place), I also got a refurbished board, but this time it worked. It kind of worries me not knowing the history of this particular motherboard, but it drives a Unidisk which is important to me. Just be careful... You can't be sure of what you're getting.. -Paul
ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (12/21/89)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM to upgrade a //c to //c+, sell your //c and with the money buy a Lasre 128EX/2. With the leftover cash you can get a printer or RGB monitor or whatever.
ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (12/21/89)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM I found out today that the Apple 3.5 (platinum ?) drives read 720k IBM formats. Is this common knowledge? I'd never seen this feature advertised before.
ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (12/21/89)
In-Reply-To: message from spike@world.std.com ROM upgrades for the original //c are available for $40CAN. Most of that is installation cost. :-( Apple USA should have equivalent charges. p.s. the c+ is no supported in Canada, nor any other 8-bit II's. The GS is supported, but grudgingly. :-( :-(
bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) (12/24/89)
In article <8799.infoapple.net@pro-generic>, ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) writes: > In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM > > to upgrade a //c to //c+, sell your //c and with the money buy a Lasre > 128EX/2. Hmm, we tried that once. I went to Columbus to help a friend buy a Laser. Micro-Center informed us that they had sold twenty lasers that year and that so far three had been returned because of defects. None of these three had returned from Taiwan or wherever yet, but they told us that in the past the ROMs on the replacement lasers were often different so that some software that worked before didn't work on the replacement machine. Their demo model was only compatible with software that didn't use a space bar since theirs had fallen off and wouldn't go back on. Yep, sounds like a real bargain to me. I'd be able to get all kinds of work done around the house while the thing was being repaired. Hope my wife doesn't find out about them Bob Church att!oucsace!bchurch
UD182050@VM1.NODAK.EDU (Mike Aos) (01/03/90)
On Wed, 20 Dec 89 23:55:19 EST Eric Mcgillicuddy said: >In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM > >I found out today that the Apple 3.5 (platinum ?) drives read 720k IBM >formats. Is this common knowledge? I'd never seen this feature advertised >before. As we've ALREADY discussed on the net, they CANNOT read 720K IBM diks. You require an FDHD on a Mac.... Mike
js7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jackson Sie) (01/04/90)
Then what about the PC Transporter? How does that thing allow you to use IBM 720k disks in the same Apple 3.5 drive? Jackson Sie -- js7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (01/08/90)
In-Reply-To: message from UD182050@VM1.NODAK.EDU I may have caused more confusion than clarification with my original post. (Apple 3.5 drives can read IBM 720k IBM formats). This is true only when connected to the PC transporter. Apparently the controllers are what causes the imcopatiblities. The reason I was impressed was that I expected to need an IBM external drive, but instead was able to use my second drive t osave some money. You do not need an HDFD and a Mac, you just need a PCT and 3.5 drive. I think this is the more cost effective method. And the more fun. :-)
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (01/09/90)
In article <954@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes: >In article <8799.infoapple.net@pro-generic>, ericmcg@pro-generic.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) writes: >> In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM >> >> to upgrade a //c to //c+, sell your //c and with the money buy a Lasre >> 128EX/2. > >Hmm, we tried that once. I went to Columbus to help a friend buy a Laser. >Micro-Center informed us that they had sold twenty lasers that year >and that so far three had been returned because of defects. None of these >three had returned from Taiwan or wherever yet, but they told us that in the >past the ROMs on the replacement lasers were often different so that some >software that worked before didn't work on the replacement machine. Their >demo model was only compatible with software that didn't use a space bar >since theirs had fallen off and wouldn't go back on. Yep, sounds like a >real bargain to me. I'd be able to get all kinds of work done around the >house while the thing was being repaired. Hope my wife doesn't find out >about them >Bob Church >att!oucsace!bchurch > Funny, I've had a laser 128 since they first came out, and now have a 128ex. I was using a 3.5 inch drive with my 128. The company informed me that there was an engineering fault, and I should have been made aware before buying the drive, so they allowed me to update to a 128ex for $200. In general I'm satisfied with the company. My machine has worked very well considering the abuse its been subject to. I do know of one repair center that seems to have its head up its rear end though. I will never again send my machine to the place in New Bedford. They sent my computer back to me without the endcap, so I wrote them a letter. They sent the endcap back, broken in two pieces and held together with scotch tape. I have had no major compatibility problems with software. The only noticable one is that Multiscribe 2.something doesn't work well with the mouse. --- Michael J Pender Jr Box 1942 c/o W.P.I. ... (Mankind) has already greyelf@wpi.bitnet 100 Institute Rd. used its last chance. greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester, Ma 01609 - Gen. MacArthur
cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) (01/12/90)
One soft that doesn't work on Laser 128 ex I knew was the ProDOS version of Merlin assembler. -- |I want Rocket Chip 10 MHz, Z-Ram Ultra II, UniDisk 3.5 | cyliao@wam.umd.edu | |I want my own NeXT, 64 Mb RAM, 660 Mb SCSI, NeXT laser | Chun Yao Liao | | printer, net connection, software, etc. | Accepting Donations!| /* If (my_.signature =~ yours) coincidence = true; else ignore_this = true; */
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (01/13/90)
In article <1990Jan11.211828.3646@eng.umd.edu> cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) writes: >One soft that doesn't work on Laser 128 ex I knew was the ProDOS version of >Merlin assembler. > > >-- >|I want Rocket Chip 10 MHz, Z-Ram Ultra II, UniDisk 3.5 | cyliao@wam.umd.edu | >|I want my own NeXT, 64 Mb RAM, 660 Mb SCSI, NeXT laser | Chun Yao Liao | >| printer, net connection, software, etc. | Accepting Donations!| >/* If (my_.signature =~ yours) coincidence = true; else ignore_this = true; */ I had the Dos 3.3 version, and it worked fine after I did a global replace of the jsr $fdf0 to a jsr $fded, and then I wrote a new library to include all the 65c02 mnemonics. The library should still be available at apple2-l under the name laserlib or some such. --- Michael J Pender Jr Box 1942 c/o W.P.I. ... (Mankind) has already greyelf@wpi.bitnet 100 Institute Rd. used its last chance. greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester, Ma 01609 - Gen. MacArthur
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (01/13/90)
>I had the Dos 3.3 version, and it worked fine after I did a global replace >of the jsr $fdf0 to a jsr $fded, and then I wrote a new library to include >all the 65c02 mnemonics. One correction please, I meant I replaced jsr $fdf6 to jsr $fdf0. However this did cause the cursor not to blink. Nowadays I would just look up the location to get a character and blink and use that instead. Hope I didn't cause any problems for anyone. --- Michael J Pender Jr Box 1942 c/o W.P.I. ... (Mankind) has already greyelf@wpi.bitnet 100 Institute Rd. used its last chance. greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester, Ma 01609 - Gen. MacArthur