SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (01/20/90)
On Wed, 17 Jan 90 23:02:07 GMT you said: >>Can anyone offer an AppleLink (Corporate Edition) address, i.e. >>name@AppleLink.Apple.Com for this *ahem* aggressive marketing team? I find >>it interesting that a group characterized as aggressive speaks through a third >>party; when they find their own voice, they'll be somewhat more credible. >> >Murph: This internet which is supposedly "the user community at large" is the >same group that generated 120 votes on a new Apple II technical group? Get >real. There are more Apple II people on America Online than are on here, with >little doubt. I too have a lot of email to wade through, so perhaps it was something in the tone of what I wrote that led to (some) misinterpretation of what (I thought) I meant. I have NO objection to Jerry collecting opinions on AOL which I expect does enroll more Apple II users than read comp.sys.apple. I doubt that the relative numbers on the various services mean nearly as much as the quality of the messages. Apple doesn't seem to pay much attention to Tom Weishaar either, but I'd guess what he says represents the views of more users than your likely to hear from over all services collectively. If the 120 votes means anything, it is an expression of the extent to which folks may take the time to get involved which may have little to do with how many quietly decide to buy from IBM or Commodore the next time around. >If someone wanted to collect comments from here and forward them to Jerry Cline >(Lynda?), who is collecting and organizing them, I'm sure he'd be happy to >send them back to Apple. I personally don't have the time... Jerry doesn't have an id on AppleLink? Whyever not? >And I will *not* post the names of the people involved without their >permission. I don't think YOU should have to volunteer to get into the middle of the feedback loop even if you had the time. I really appreciate the attention that you, Cary, Dave, and others in the technical group devote to this and other user news services. I think much less of the (alleged) interest of Apple's marketing staff (marketing you may recall is something I know a little about :-) I also don't think it would be efficient to obtain (directly or indirectly) the names of "the people involved." If the marketing staff really cared, they'd set up an id specifically for the purpose of collecting user comments (maybe: flame@applelink.apple.com :-) >They, like I, already have to deal with tons of Apple junk mail on AppleLink >and they, like I, have learned to ignore it. Shoot the messenger? I realize that the redundancy level is really high. That's why I'd recommend setting up a separate username, dumping whatever's there to a printer occassionally, and then assigning a clerical type to cull the output for anything original. Apple's marketing staff and even senior management has a tendency to tell users to take their problems to their Apple dealer and ignore the message that the dealer often is the source of the problem. We've had some of the marketers attend our Club meetings and they too leave the clear impression that they are locked into send only mode. It's hard to believe that Apple doesn't KNOW what users think. The message is delivered publically and privately repeatedly. The marketing folks have NOT done a very effective job of replying (even when they've got a good explanation). Their 100% absence here (as well as on America Online, evidently) speaks with an ironic eloquence. >Jerry is organizing (but not editing) everyone's comments, and I'm sure he'd >be more than happy to include yours if someone could collect them and get >them to him. Would someone care to be proactive and positive rather than >once again hollering before you're hurt? I appreciate what Jerry's doing, but he's a third party. If Apple really cared, someone on the Corporate payroll would be involved (even if an army of lowly clerks were actually keying the replies). Asking someone else to volunteer to collect things here to upload to AOL (at some cost to themselves) is akin to expecting potential respondents to a mailed survey to supply their own envelopes and stamps (you're more than a little likely to discourage response). Why not give Jerry an userid on AppleLink? >(I swear *nothing* is going to please this group...they cry for months that >marketing isn't listening at all and when marketing starts to listen, they >want an engraved invitation to say something. Consider this engraved.) Marketing continues to have wax in their ears (or perhaps they might be better described as trying to listen from another room in another building). It is not true that nothing pleases this group. The rather rapid replies to technical questions from one or another member of IIDTS borders on the astonishing. It's not fair that you all get the gripes that result from the actions (or inactions) of others, but you're here and they're not (apparently not at AOL either). Until they are a little more visible (somewhere) the notion that they really are listening (somehow) lacks credibility. You deserve credit for one other thing. Apple HAS a presence on the nets, while IBM makes it nearly impossible for their employees to communicate (even as 'speaking for themselves and not representing the views of...'). /s Murph <Sewall%UConnVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu> [Internet] or ...{psuvax1 or mcvax}!uconnvm.bitnet!sewall [UUCP] + Standard disclaimer applies ("The opinions expressed are my own" etc.)