NYSOKO@WEIZMANN.BITNET.UUCP (04/28/87)
I would appreciate information on the apple IIGs (features,
backward/forward compatibility with the Apple IIe/c, software and
US prices of a IIGs).
thanks,
Asaf Sokolowski
Nysoko@weizmann.bitnetDSEAH@WPI.BITNET (03/29/88)
We had MegaFest, our first computer show, over the weekend. We had four Apple IIgs's, three Amigas, three Atari STs, A Mac Se, A Mac II, an AT&T PC6300, an Apple II+ and an Apple //e. For the first time, I saw all these computers go at it head-to-head. The Atari STs were astonishingly good. I hadn't expected much quality from them, perhaps Degas or some nasty music demo. They had some awesome Amiga-Killer programs. There was a ray traced, transparent bouncing ball demo in which three balls scooted around each other at high speed over a patterned Atari Logo background that scrolled off into the horizon in full 3-d perspective. Everything was shadowed and quick! It wasn't on-the-fly. Bard's Tale GS looked just like Bard's Tale ST (Or the other way around). There was a lackluster MIDI program, and a really really good Star Trek program. You had all the crew on the bridge of the Enterprise. When you clicked one of them, Uhura would pop up on the screen and ask you what you wanted to do. Spock would raise his eyebrow. You could watch the ship go into standard orbit around a nicely detailed planet, engage in 3-D manuevers around the dreaded Klingons, talk to aliens, etc. The graphics were very nice. 16 colors out of 512. The two grade-school kids that were running this program (one runs the Middle Earth BBS out here in Worcester) were kind of obnoxious about the Apple IIgs blasting out sound demos, and I heard one mutter nasally, "Oh, that's because they have it amplified". I offered them my portable box, but they lacked the cables. I loaned them a MIDI synthesizer, and it still wasn't impressive. They said that there is a 512 colors-on screen mode for the ST, but they admitted that most programs use the 16 color mode. The Amigas ran some digitized sound demos and ran Digi-View. There was one fellow with a 4 Meg Amiga 1000 plus a digitizer. He ran the Digi-View demo in 640x400 HAM mode (Hold and Modify, 4096 colors on screen at the same time). These images were animated, too! The digitized woman's face was incredible, if a little rough in places. They went from black and white to color. There was a cute little demo in which four Amiga monitors (each taking about a quarter of the screen) showed color bars, then each one showed a little segment like Betty Boop singing, some karate dudes bowing, water dripping, Simon Le Bon rising from waters, and Dino-Riders leaping across the plains. Each short had a soundtrack along with it. Then they all went at once, playing their soundtracks all at the same time. They had some digitized Rap music, some digitized Led Zeppelin, and a program from Aegis called Sonix. It had up to four instruments at the same time, and sounded pretty good. The Music couldn't scroll at the same time it was playing, though. One person had this very nice Sony Analog RGB monitor that was as goodas the GS monitor. It is also a cable-ready TV. He said it cost him only $400, but I think it is probably closer to $500. We demoed the Music Construction Set demo disk, some of Activision's Music Studio, Epyx's World Games and Winter Games, Bard's Tale GS from EOA, Broderbund's Fantavision GS matinee, Sierra On-line's Thexder, PBI's SeaStrike, and Activision's Tass Times in Tone Town. All these were amplified through a MDIdeas Supersonic stereocard through someone's fancy amplifier and Kef C40 speakers. We blew them away. Our sound turned everybody's head, and the graphics kept them
DSEAH@WPI.BITNET (03/29/88)
We had MegaFest, our first computer show, over the weekend. We had four Apple IIgs's, three Amigas, three Atari STs, A Mac Se, A Mac II, an AT&T PC6300, an Apple II+ and an Apple //e. For the first time, I saw all these computers go at it head-to-head. The Atari STs were astonishingly good. I hadn't expected much quality from them, perhaps Degas or some nasty music demo. They had some awesome Amiga-Killer programs. There was a ray traced, transparent bouncing ball demo in which three balls scooted around each other at high speed over a patterned Atari Logo background that scrolled off into the horizon in full 3-d perspective. Everything was shadowed and quick! It wasn't on-the-fly. Bard's Tale GS looked just like Bard's Tale ST (Or the other way around). There was a lackluster MIDI program, and a really really good Star Trek program. You had all the crew on the bridge of the Enterprise. When you clicked one of them, Uhura would pop up on the screen and ask you what you wanted to do. Spock would raise his eyebrow. You could watch the ship go into standard orbit around a nicely detailed planet, engage in 3-D manuevers around the dreaded Klingons, talk to aliens, etc. The graphics were very nice. 16 colors out of 512. The two grade-school kids that were running this program (one runs the Middle Earth BBS out here in Worcester) were kind of obnoxious about the Apple IIgs blasting out sound demos, and I heard one mutter nasally, "Oh, that's because they have it amplified". I offered them my portable box, but they lacked the cables. I loaned them a MIDI synthesizer, and it still wasn't impressive. They said that there is a 512 colors-on screen mode for the ST, but they admitted that most programs use the 16 color mode. The Amigas ran some digitized sound demos and ran Digi-View. There was one fellow with a 4 Meg Amiga 1000 plus a digitizer. He ran the Digi-View demo in 640x400 HAM mode (Hold and Modify, 4096 colors on screen at the same time). These images were animated, too! The digitized woman's face was incredible, if a little rough in places. They went from black and white to color. There was a cute little demo in which four Amiga monitors (each taking about a quarter of the screen) showed color bars, then each one showed a little segment like Betty Boop singing, some karate dudes bowing, water dripping, Simon Le Bon rising from waters, and Dino-Riders leaping across the plains. Each short had a soundtrack along with it. Then they all went at once, playing their soundtracks all at the same time. They had some digitized Rap music, some digitized Led Zeppelin, and a program from Aegis called Sonix. It had up to four instruments at the same time, and sounded pretty good. The Music couldn't scroll at the same time it was playing, though. One person had this very nice Sony Analog RGB monitor that was as goodas the GS monitor. It is also a cable-ready TV. He said it cost him only $400, but I think it is probably closer to $500. We demoed the Music Construction Set demo disk, some of Activision's Music Studio, Epyx's World Games and Winter Games, Bard's Tale GS from EOA, Broderbund's Fantavision GS matinee, Sierra On-line's Thexder, PBI's SeaStrike, and Activision's Tass Times in Tone Town. All these were amplified through a MDIdeas Supersonic stereocard through someone's fancy amplifier and Kef C40 speakers. We blew them away. Our sound turned everybody's head, and the graphics kept them there. The Amigas and Atari's looked very much like paperweights after hearing THEIR sound compared to ours. We impressed people with EOA's Deluxe Paint II and some picture we drew for MegaFest. Fortunately the Amiga folks didn't have their version along. The thud of depth charges in Silent Service GS with the amazing din created by SeaStrike were stupendous. Late during the 'fest, we broke out the MDIdea's sound digitizer and did some sampling that met or exceeded the Amiga's capabilities. Overall, I would say we are superior in graphics to the Atari ST and superior in sound to the Amiga. We are vastly inconvenienced by our relatively slow processor and slow graphics memory. We held our own, though. Of the non-computer owning people who came in, many were surprised by the Apple IIgs quality in appearance and software. In addition, a few were surprised to see so many IIgs. It was a great day for the Apple World at WPI. So feel proud! The Apple IIgs is far from a dead machine! Dave Seah - Worcester Polytechnic Institute | Bitnet: DSeah@WPI.Bitnet | Apples Rock! // | Internet: DSeah%WPI.Bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU | // Zap!
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (60164000) (04/01/88)
In article <8803281710.AA17493@wpi.local> DSEAH@WPI.BITNET writes: >was playing, though. One person had this very nice Sony Analog RGB >monitor that was as goodas the GS monitor. It is also a cable-ready >TV. He said it cost him only $400, but I think it is probably closer >to $500. No, I believe the monitor you speak of was $400. I've seen them for that price many times through mail order, and I even saw it at a Fry's Electron- ics store near me for $388. Is it REALLY as good as Apple's RGB monitor? I already have a 20" TV set, but if it IS as good, might as well get another TV too! [I've seen genuine Apple RGB monitors for $399 mail order too...Look in A+ ads]
laba-4an@web3e.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) (04/03/88)
In article <2572@saturn.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >No, I believe the monitor you speak of was $400. I've seen them for that >price many times through mail order, and I even saw it at a Fry's Electron- >ics store near me for $388. > >Is it REALLY as good as Apple's RGB monitor? I already have a 20" TV >set, but if it IS as good, might as well get another TV too! >[I've seen genuine Apple RGB monitors for $399 mail order too...Look >in A+ ads] If you're going to get a non-Apple monitor, I would strongly recommend trying it out first. I have an Apple RGB, but somebody else I know got a generic one... if you twiddle with the display settings in the control panel, you may notice slight changes in the color of the background if you change the border, and vice versa. I haven't had a chance to see the RGB/TV sets, so I can't give any opinion on them (although it does seem kinda neat...) -- "Seeing is believing."
DSEAH@WPI.BITNET (12/09/88)
Is there any kind of user feedback/gripeline on AppleLink PE? For the past year and a half there have been massive gripes about the GS's speed. Now what's this talk about "Golden Gate"??? I don't wanna Mac that plays GS! It's like Apple is playing on the immense loyalty that Apple II owners have for their machines. "Say, John! They're eating up GS's like hotcakes! It must be that snazzy `Mac-like' interface we put on it! Now that the Apple II world expects point 'n click event driven programs, we can lay a Mac SE on 'em without anybody raising a fuss! AND editorials from Nibble, A+, and InCider will as always praise our decision to 'merge our markets'!!! The Apple II problem is at an end! *pop* *glugluglug* *tchink*" I am sick of the Apple II line topping out to prevent damage to their up-market products. There was that problem with the Apple III, now it's the Mac. Is the mystic allure of Apple: The Company gone? Back in the old days, it was as if the company cared...no, it wasn't. What am I saying? It's been piddly enhancement after minor change all the way since the Apple II plus. A great victory was one when the //e brought "official" lower case and 80 column support to the II line. Double Hi-Res was yet another victory, as was 128K memory. But weren't Apple //x rumors floating around then too? Maybe now that the Mac II supports 24 bit color, we can get 8 bit color and fast (read "FAST") hardware without a lot of silly software overhead. The toolbox concept is fine, but buying the ProDOS 16 reference, Hardware Reference, Firmware Reference, Programmer's Introduction, Toolbox Reference volumes I and II, and maybe the Human Interface Guidelines is way too much! (at Addison Wellesly prices). Gahhh! Maybe I should stop now. All this has probably been said before, but I had to get it out before I go whimpering back to my GS.
cbdougla@uokmax.UUCP (Collin Broadrick Douglas) (01/31/89)
Well, it's my turn to stand up for Apple now. I have also used Apples for a long time. I can agree with some of the comments but I have'nt lost hope. Powerful things are turning up for the GS. We have GS/OS, for example which has promised to lift the 32 meg barrier and allow us to read and write several different operating systems with the use of FST'S. I personally expect to see (at least I hope) the next system software upgrade to be in ROM. I also expect to see a few things like math co-processors and large screen displays for the GS. After all, the quickdraw in the GS is a variation of the quickdraw in the macs (correct me if I am wrong). The Transwarp GS will run at 7Mhz and it us upgradeable. As soon as faster 65c816's come out, you will be able to plug them in to the Transwarp (it was originally designed to run at 10 Mhz. Can anyone here Imagine Appleworks running with the Timeout series at 10 Mhz?! It would be extrordinaryily fast). Don't cross the // line of the list yet. There is still incredible potential (possibly the most expand able computer in the world?) The Zip Chip and Rocket Chip are two new accellerators for the //. A //e with 1 meg and a Rocket Chip running Appleworks would most likely be able to outperform an 8Mhz XT running Symphony (a 2.8Mhz GS can keep up with a 4.77 Mhz Xt and I have benchmarks to prove it.) Well, enough of me. Someone else join the party. Collin Douglas
DSEAH@WPI.BITNET (02/01/89)
>Looking at the internals of GS/OS, you can see a lot of structure to >support things Apple II's have never dreamed of. This is a real Disk >OS. I think Apple some people at Apple are definitely committed to the >IIgs, but it *is* a painful machine to program for. That is why there >are still bugs in the tools and GS/OS. That's what makes it frustrating >for developers. That doesn't mean it should be abandoned. After trying to write some small assembly language programs, I'd say the 65816 *IS* a pain to program. I especially dislike all those REPs and SEPs. It sure doesn't FEEL like a 16 bit machine. Another thing that bothers me is the high cost of gathering the resources to program the machine in the first place. Slowly I have accumulated the firmware, hardware, programmer's introduction and tool box reference manuals (thanks, Mark). Now all I need is some more memory, a hard disk drive or second 3.5", the GSOS reference, APDA, and my Orca/M Upgrade! I guess it is mostly my fault that I haven't really jumped in and read all the stuff piled on my desk. --- NOSTALGIA --- :) :) :) *remember* *the* *days* *when* *you* *could* *just* *boot* *up* *Lisa 2.5* *and* *dig* *out* *What's Where in the Apple II* *and* *just* *do* *something* *neat*? :) :) :) :) ;) 4 Minutes To Application: Reminds me of the Apple II 48K cassettes. Full circle! Although I got my GS specifically because it wasn't a Mac, the attraction to a 68000/6502 hybrid machine is growing...Imagine that great assembly language on an Apple II! But then, the product distinction fades and you end up with a color Mac! With such compatibility, one could chuck the Apple II emulation altogether in a few years! Is this the master plan? What's a II loyalist to do? How did Apple go about making the specs for the Apple IIGS? Did they only survey educational markets? Did they consult on Info-Apple? GEnie? Or did just make it up? I wish Apple wasn't so tight on this, "we announce no product before its time" business. Does this policy have something to do with the overhyped-underdelivered Macintosh Office a few years ago? Another garbled message from: +-------------------------------------------------+ | Dave Seah --- Worcester Polytechnic Institute | Cullowhee Home Grown +-------------------------------------------------+ Software | BITNET: dseah@wpi.bitnet | (for lack of a good name) | INTERNET: dseah@wpi.wpi.edu | | AppleLink PE: Omnitreant | +-------------------------------------------------+
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (02/02/89)
In article <8902010559.AA30585@wpi> DSEAH@WPI.BITNET writes: > >--- NOSTALGIA --- :) :) :) *remember* *the* *days* *when* *you* *could* *just* >*boot* *up* *Lisa 2.5* *and* *dig* *out* *What's Where in the Apple II* *and* >*just* *do* *something* *neat*? :) :) :) :) ;) > Hmmm...a lot of smiley faces here. Are you really just saying this tongue in cheek? Anyway, there is nothing to prevent you from doing this (unless Lisa 2.5 doesn't work on a GS). There is nothing that says that a GS has to be programmed like a Macintosh, or even that it has to use SHR. Take a look at APW. Nice, powerful (slow), development system; not a spec-o-graphics in it. I was one of the authors of the GS Demo Source Code disk. All of the appli- cations there are, admittedly, Desktop programs. However, I also wrote another program for volume 2 that ran in just text mode. I wanted to play around with the capabilities of the Console Driver of GS/OS, so I wrote a disk editor. Well, actually, I didn't get around to the 'editting' part, but at least it will let you look at the disk. Anyway, my intent with this program was not only to show how to use GS/OS, but also to break the mindset of people who think that you can only program Desktop programs on the GS. The * old * days * are * not * gone! You don't even have to run GS/OS or ProDOS on the GS. You could boot into DOS 3.3 and play with all of those old and hilarious Beagle Brothers programs. Or play an Infocom adventure. Or see what new bugs you can find in AppleSoft (they're still there!). Remember how Call -Apple had those contests to see how much of a program you could put into one line? There is nothing preventing you from still doing that. ----- Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. --- Developer Technical Support INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") (02/05/89)
>Excerpts from ext.in.info-apple: 1-Feb-89 Apple IIGS DSEAH%WPI.BITNET@mitvma. (2596) >After trying to write some small assembly language programs, I'd say the 65816 >*IS* a pain to program. I especially dislike all those REPs and SEPs. It >sure doesn't FEEL like a 16 bit machine. Another thing that bothers me is the >high cost of gathering the resources to program the machine in the first >place. Slowly I have accumulated the firmware, hardware, programmer's >introduction and tool box reference manuals (thanks, Mark). Now all I need is >some more memory, a hard disk drive or second 3.5", the GSOS reference, APDA, >and my Orca/M Upgrade! I guess it is mostly my fault that I haven't really It depends upon the application you have in mind, of course, but there is no reason you can't program in 8-bit mode if the complexities of 16-bit mode are too difficult and unnecessary... I still feel there is a lot of value in the Prodos 8 environment, especially given the higher processor speed of the GS. Capt. Albatross jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu ============ Bureuacracy takes all the fun out of computing. disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are made under duress of academic stress and is often prone to overzealous error. The author, not enjoying the prospect of remaining eternally ignorant, therefore welcomes any replies that would further that end.
yk4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Yong Su Kim) (11/09/89)
Why do Apple dealers ignore the Gs's potential? Back in Hong Kong, the dealers seemed reluctant to sell the GS. If anyone wanted to buy a GS, they would recommend that would recommend that they buy the Mac Plus. They would tell the buyer that the GS is outdated, overpriced and useless for any serious work. It might be outdated in tha the hardware is not at the cutting edge of technology but then not everyong needs a cray. An Apple IIe could satisfy the computing needs of most people. That's why there are 4 million Apple IIs out there. However, most people end up buying the Mac plus, because it is cheaper than an equivalent GS system, and then they discover that their computer is becoming obsolete. Think about the guys who bought MAc 512s. Where are they? Think about the guys who bought Apple IIs. They are still around and although the technology might be outdated, the computers are used by millions of people everywhere. I don't know anyone who still uses a Mac 512. Maybe they upgraded to Mac Pluses and SEs. I hope that the GS doesn't turn into something like the MAc 512. I hope that it will remain in use for 10 years like the Apple II. I think that the Apple IIe could also remain in use for another ten years with products like Zip chips and the FPE. These peripheral are expensive at the moment but prices should go down. Think about the 16K ram card. I paid a lot for my ram card. Now, if you want to buy a 16K ram card, it will cost you next to nothing compared to prices 7 years ago. Some might say that buying all those peripherals is just like adding engines to a horse carriage. Okay, get an Apple IIGS. The GS is not a horse carriage. It has the POTENTIAL to be extremely powerful although its potential is not too obvious at the moment. With more developments in the hardware side and the software side, the GS could really take off. Think about the graphics and sound capabilities of the GS. It has 15 voice generators while the Amiga and the Mac II only have 4 and everyone know about the amazing things they can do with 4 voices. The GS has a maximum resolution of 640X200 but with a new graphics card, higher resolutions are possible. Okay, so it will cost more but then with the Amiga and the Mac II, you have to BUY graphics cards to get graphics and we know how expensive they can be. The biggest problem with the GS is the speed. Nowadays, everyone seems to be obsessed with Mhz. It has become the standard way of comparing the speed of computers by the general public. The GS's clock rate of 2.8 Mhz seems puny to the 25Mhz chips so people tend to think that the GS is very slow. What they don't realise is that Mhz is not the true indication of the speed of the computer. If only dealers would realise... Even with the differences in chip design, the GS chip is too slow for anything really intensive. System 5.0 improved things greatly because the speedup was done through software alone. Now I am wishing that someone would come up with something equivalent in hardware. A TWGS is a solution to this problem but I think more "serious" users would but the GS if it came with a 10Mhz chip and a FP coprocessor built in... The future of the CPU seems to lie with Bill Mensch but it doesn't seem so rosy after AppleFest. Although the chips might not be 12 Mhz but more like 8Mhz, 8Mhz is better than 2.8 Mhz. I just hope the 65832 becomes a reality pretty soon. With the 65832 installed on the GS, Apple could have two successful lines of computers with impressive credentials on both lines... I really hope that there will be a bright future for the Apple IIGS. _____________________________________________________________________________ |Internet: yk4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu |||||||The Korean from Hong Kong.|||||| |Bitnet : yk4@cunixc ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |UUCP : rutgers!columbia!cunixc!yk4 ||||||||||...Apple IIGS user...|||||||| |_______________________________________|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jeffn@pro-europa.cts.com (Jeff Noxon) (11/11/89)
In-Reply-To: message from cunixc!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!yk4@columbia.edu
When I was in Hong Kong this summer, I didn't see a single GS. I saw tons of
clones, AT and IIe, ripoff cards of this and that, the kind of stuff I always
see when I go there. I saw a few Macintoshes, but not many. I spent a lot of
time roaming around in the Golden Shopping Centre, and I overheard someone
mention a GS once.
I bet if the GS was cloneable, you'd see people with them. But it's not, so
there are still lots of faithful II+ and IIe users.
It's a really neat place to go. I wonder how many heads would turn if I
brought my GS in and showed the II+ users the Nucleus demo :-)
PS- The only thing I have seen a GS do in an Apple dealer lately is display
this all too familiar message:
___________________________________
@____________________________________
Check Startup Device!
I like to believe that the employees in Apple dealerships are retired burger
flippers at McDonalds.
Jeff
uucp: [ucsd, nosc] ...crash!pro-europa!jeffn | "After three days without
internet: jeffn@pro-europa.cts.com | programming, life becomes
arpanet: crash!pro-europa!jeffn@nosc.mil | meaningless..."
bitnet: pro-europa.uucp!jeffn@psuvax1 | -- Taolaba-4ad@web-1f.berkeley.edu (Joseph Teo) (01/09/90)
I have been using II Plus (rather the Europlus) and then the IIGS and now the Mac SE/30. Back in Singapore where I came from (just 1 week or so ago), we've got this bunch of Apple II diehards too and I have been reading with interest (and sometimes amusement) at the mail left over Info-Apple. Unfortunately, the folks at the National University of Singapore were not generous enough to give all students access to the net. Now that I don't own the IIGS anymore (I actually wanted to keep it but that'd prevent me from buying the SE/30), I am in a position not to be as defensive about it. I still keep my II Plus namely because it's practically unsellable and it does retain a certain amount of sentimental value in me. As a long time Apple II user, I am rightfully displeased by the lack of attention and regard given to a fine, long-standing machine. The folding of Call-APPLE, the relegation of AppleFest into a free-for-all affair are just 2 recent unpleasant incidents in a long history of events. However, I do find some of the statements here getting a little irrational. I'm living happily with my Mac and I definitely find it the more useable machine. I don't even need the color graphics 'coz I'm not really into that. The small size of the display is more of a handicap. That's something I acknowledge. But as for as my needs are concerned, the Mac is the better machine. Of course, that doesn't mean that the Mac is the better machine to everyone. What Apple is going through now is a serious identity crisis. The 2 lines are just too different for any single sales policy to work. And the folks in marketing probably only see the more prominent side of the 2. They don't share the same fervor for the II as a lot of you out here. Worse still, I do seriously suspect that a lot of them are driven by short term goals. Much as I hate to say, the future lies with the Mac. The main problem here is Apple's either not doing enough or not doing anything fast enough to answer to the immediate needs of Apple II users. The optimum way out is to provide a low-cost upgrade path to the Mac while protecting the current investments of Apple II owners. That may sound a little far fetched considering the high margins that Apple sells her products but that's the only way out. Some of my friends have been frustrated enough to consider looking at Amiga. And I'd really recommend it for anybody who hasn't got a substantial Apple II grounding. I, on the other hand, have turned to the Mac. Well, some people have remarked that Apple has been arrogant enough to ignore the low end market. To some extent I do agree. But I still feel Apple should retain her status quo as a quality company. What of the rumor that Apple was going to split into 2 companies?
cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) (01/12/90)
In article <1990Jan9.021220.27058@agate.berkeley.edu> laba-4ad@web-1f (Joseph Teo) writes: > >Much as I hate to say, the future lies with the Mac. The main problem here >is Apple's either not doing enough or not doing anything fast enough to >answer to the immediate needs of Apple II users. The optimum way out is to >provide a low-cost upgrade path to the Mac while protecting the current >investments of Apple II owners. That may sound a little far fetched >considering the high margins that Apple sells her products but that's the >only way out. Uh... excuse me. I believe that most of Apple II lovers don't even want to hear the world "Mac" so most of us won't consider "low-cost upgrade path to the Mac" as our "UPGRADE". If I want to upgrade to something better, I will choose some "Newer technology" computers or "workstation power horse" as my "upgrade". > >Some of my friends have been frustrated enough to consider looking at >Amiga. And I'd really recommend it for anybody who hasn't got a substantial >Apple II grounding. I, on the other hand, have turned to the Mac. Well, >some people have remarked that Apple has been arrogant enough to ignore the >low end market. To some extent I do agree. But I still feel Apple should >retain her status quo as a quality company. > Even I am sort of anti-Amiga and anti-Atari, I must confess that if I want to buy me a game computer, Amiga and Atari are the best choice. They really have more neat games than the GS and //s. But this is really another point... most Apple // lovers are not game fanatic...(this is my personal opinion which may not represents the entire Apple // lovers' community xxx) -- |I want Rocket Chip 10 MHz, Z-Ram Ultra II, UniDisk 3.5 | cyliao@wam.umd.edu | |I want my own NeXT, 64 Mb RAM, 660 Mb SCSI, NeXT laser | Chun Yao Liao | | printer, net connection, software, etc. | Accepting Donations!| /* If (my_.signature =~ yours) coincidence = true; else ignore_this = true; */
da1n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel K. Appelquist) (02/03/90)
Apple IIGS w/ADB keyboard and mouse $550 Sony 13" monitor/Cable ready TV $450 Apple II joystick $30 AST Vision+ Video Digitizer (for GS) $150 All equipment in perfect working condition. AST digitizer comes with documentation and software. IIGS system unit comes with much disks, software, and 1.25 megs. Dan