LYMAN@IASSNS.BITNET (04/27/87)
A friend of mine received a free copy of a book on programming the 68516, as well as the 65802, 65C02 and of course the 6502. I find that miraculously, the 65802 is pin compatible with the 6502, therefore, if I understand the book, can be plugged right in where the 6502 used to be (in my 64K II+). My questions are 1) is this indeed possible? and 2) what does this buy me? Am I then left to program in machine code? assembler (whose?) or is there any software out there which would use the new chips 16 bit capabilities. I do a lot of work with floating point arithmetic, so any speedup would be appreciated. Lyman Hurd
schumann@puff.WISC.EDU (Christopher Schumann) (04/27/87)
LYMAN@IASSNS.BITNET writes: > therefore, if I understand the > book, can be plugged right in where the 6502 used to be (in my 64K II+). > My questions are 1) is this indeed possible? Yes it is. I know of some people who have put one in their //c's, and it works fine. > 2) what does this buy me? You can then enter the 16-bit mode, the native mode for the //gs. > Am I then left to program in machine code? assembler (whose?) > Lyman Hurd I believe that Orca/M allows 65802/65816 programming, as does Merlin Pro. Chris Schumann schumann@puff.wisc.edu
ranger@ecsvax.UUCP (04/28/87)
In article <8704261908.aa15443@SPARK.BRL.ARPA>, LYMAN@IASSNS.BITNET writes: > A friend of mine received a free copy of a book on programming the 68516, as > well as the 65802, 65C02 and of course the 6502. I find that miraculously, > the 65802 is pin compatible with the 6502, therefore, if I understand the > book, can be plugged right in where the 6502 used to be (in my 64K II+). > > My questions are 1) is this indeed possible? and 2) what does this buy me? > Am I then left to program in machine code? assembler (whose?) or is there > any software out there which would use the new chips 16 bit capabilities. > I do a lot of work with floating point arithmetic, so any speedup would be > appreciated. > > Lyman Hurd You can put the 65802 in the //+, but some poeple have had problems because of a timing bug in the //+. It seems to vary with the production date of the machine. I believe the folks at S-C Software in Texas came up with a fix for the problem. They publish Apple Assembly line. You can call them for help on this subject. I don't have their number but I think they are in Dallas. The 65802 is basically a 65816 without the top 8 address lines con- nected. You can get more efficiency out of the chip but you'll have to write it yourself. Its too bad that Apple didn't put them in the //c and in the //e enhancement kit, but I guess production wasn't up to the point where Apple could get the millions they needed. Rick Fincher
avatar@xls-plexus01 (Todd Johnson) (04/30/87)
> A friend of mine received a free copy of a book on programming the 68516, as > well as the 65802, 65C02 and of course the 6502. I find that miraculously, > the 65802 is pin compatible with the 6502, therefore, if I understand the > book, can be plugged right in where the 6502 used to be (in my 64K II+). The 65802 is in fact pin compatible with the 6502 and 65C02. You can swap the microprocessor in your //e REPEAT //e with either the 65C02 or the 65802 and your existing software won't notice the difference. The 65C02 has an enhanced instruction set over the 6502 and a few instruction bugs were corrected. It is the chip that Apple sells in their //e enhancement kit. The 65802 has an enhanced instruction set over the 65C02 as well as software selectable 8/16 bit registers. > My questions are 1) is this indeed possible? If you want to put a 65802 (or 65C02) in a ][ or ][+, you may experience a problem because of timing. Several small articles have appeared in Apple Assembly Line (published by S-C Software Corporation, Dallas, TX) which covered the subject of putting the 65C02 and 65802 in "older" apples. Four separate "fixes" have appeared in AAL to correct the timing problem. They are: I - Replace the 74LS257's at motherboard locations B6 and B7 with 74F257's II - Replace the 74LS174's at motherboard locations B5 and B8 with 74F174's III - Replace the ~RAS inputs to the 74LS174's (B5 & B8) on pin 9 with AX. AX comes from the 74LS195 at C2 pin 14. A complete description of this fix is in the Oct 85 issue of AAL. IV - This last fix was described in the Nov 85 issue of AAL in an article by Jim Sather. Jim states that if you perform fix III above, you will probably have to change your RAM to 150 nsec. Or, he states, you can replace the 74LS139 at F2 with a 74S139 and keep your existing 200 nsec RAM. I haven't tried any of these fixes on a ][+ myself, but I have tried both the 65C02 and the 65802 in my //e with NO problems. > and 2) what does this buy me? The 65802 has two modes -- Emulation mode and Native mode. When the chip is powered up or reset it will be in emulation mode. It will then work like a 65C02 and its operation will be transparent to existing software. The Stack Register is a full 16 bits wide but the high byte is forced to $01 when in emulation mode. When the 65802 is switched into Native mode (through software), several other features of the chip can be activated (again by software) to give you 8 or 16 bit A, X, and Y registers and also 8 or 16 bit memory. 16 bit memory is handled as two consecutive 8 bit bytes stored in conventional 65xx low byte/high byte order. When in native mode, the stack is not restricted to page $01, but can be set to any address in the 64K range. > Am I then left to program in machine code? assembler (whose?) or is there > any software out there which would use the new chips 16 bit capabilities. > I do a lot of work with floating point arithmetic, so any speedup would be > appreciated. > > Lyman Hurd I don't know of any existing software that takes advantage of the 65802's capabilities. For now, you will have to write your own routines to use the new features. I currently use the S-C Macro Assembler 2.0 to write programs for the 65802. It is capable of assembling code for the 6502, 65C02, 65802, and the 65816. There may be other assemblers that can handle the new chips but I have not used any others. Regards... Todd L. Johnson ARPANET: tjohnson@amc-hq -----
nazgul@apollo.uucp (Kee Hinckley) (05/12/87)
In article <8705011753.aa04838@SPARK.BRL.ARPA> avatar@xls-plexus01 (Todd Johnson) writes: > new features. I currently use the S-C Macro Assembler 2.0 to write programs > for the 65802. It is capable of assembling code for the 6502, 65C02, 65802, > and the 65816. There may be other assemblers that can handle the new chips but The ORCA/M Assembler (available for DOS and ProDOS, and I believe used by Apple for GS development work) supports all of the above processors. It is billed as the most powerful assembler available on any micro computer and believe me, that isn't an exageration. In fact it's more powerful than most mini or mainframe assemblers. -kee UUCP: ...{mit-erl,mit-eddie,yale,uw-beaver,decvax!wanginst}!apollo!nazgul USPS: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford MA. (617) 256-6600 x7587 or Apt #1, 102 Gloucester St., Arlington MA. (617) 641-3805 ARPA: apollo!nazgul@eddie.mit.edu and... (Coming soon, to an internet near you!) nazgul@apollo.com I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) (03/14/88)
In article <20343@bu-cs.BU.EDU> spike@bu-it.bu.edu (Joe Ilacqua) writes: > > Anyone know a good source of 65802's? >-- >->Spike Yeah, Jameco Electronics. That's where I got mine. It was $29, back when Apple Assembly line was selling them for $50. Now they two sell then for $25, and Jameco has 'em for $19, I believe. They advertise in the Apple mags, as well as most other computer mags. Sean Kamath -- UUCP: {decvax allegra ucbcad ucbvax hplabs ihnp4}!tektronix!reed!kamath CSNET: reed!kamath@Tektronix.CSNET || BITNET: reed!kamath@PSUVAX1.BITNET ARPA: reed!kamath@psuvax1.arpa US Snail: 3934 SE Boise, Portland, OR 97202 (I hate 4 line .sigs!)
AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") (05/26/88)
>Date: Mon, 23 May 88 13:49:00 EDT >Reply-To: Info-Apple@BRL.ARPA >From: POLKOSNI%QCVAX.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu >Subject: Even more enhancement > [...] >Also, is there a source of software for the 802? It's supposed to be >compatible with the 816 in the gs, so I was wondering if stuff can be >ported between the two. (stuff not using //gs graphics or other hardware >specific type stuff) It's not just the *hardware*-specific stuff that will make IIgs software incompatible with your 65802--it's FIRMWARE and ADDRESSING MODES. Nearly all IIgs software makes extensive use of the TOOLBOX routines in ROM. They will start JSLing to $E10000 to make tool calls. Also, the 65802 only has a 16-bit address bus (not the full 24 of the 65816), so it doesn't have all the neat addressing modes, right? I think some of the Merlin utilities make use of the 65802 if you have one, but I don't know of much other software that does. > >walter< --David A. Lyons a.k.a. DAL Systems PO Box 287 | North Liberty, IA 52317 BITNET: AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS CompuServe: 72177,3233 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2
scott@geowhiz.UUCP (Scott Kempf) (05/26/88)
In article <8805260015.aa25951@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") writes: >Also, the 65802 only has >a 16-bit address bus (not the full 24 of the 65816), so it doesn't have >all the neat addressing modes, right? Actually the 65802 a real 65816 inside. You get all the addressing modes, however the 8 bits high address bits (the bank) never leave the chip. >--David A. Lyons a.k.a. DAL Systems > PO Box 287 | North Liberty, IA 52317 > BITNET: AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS > CompuServe: 72177,3233 > GEnie mail: D.LYONS2
scott@geowhiz.UUCP (Scott Kempf) (05/27/88)
In article <792@geowhiz.UUCP> *I* scott@geowhiz.UUCP (Scott Kempf) writes: >Actually the 65802 a real 65816 inside. You get all the addressing modes, >however the 8 bits high address bits (the bank) never leave the chip. Actually the 65802 has a real 65816 inside. You get all the addressing modes, however the 8 high address bits (the data ban) never leave the chip. _______________________________________________________________________________ Scott Kempf Maybe Nancy is right. . . Nah. --Me MAIL: 1302 Rutledge St., Madison, WI 53703 PHONE: (608) 255-6205 (home) UUCP: {seismo, topaz, harvard, ihnp4}!uwvax!geowhiz!scott ARPA: geowhiz!scott@spool.cs.wisc.edu PHONE: (608) 262-6154 (work) BITNET: scott%geowhiz.uucp%spool.cs.wisc.edu@wiscvm.bitnet
pete@pro-europa.cts.com (Peter Creath) (02/03/90)
Merlin Pro supports the 6502, 65C02, and the 65802 (or 65C802) It is basically a 16-bit, 6502-compatible chip. I'm not sure how fast it runs, or anything else about it... UUCP: crash!pro-europa!pete ARPA: crash!pro-europa!pete@nosc.mil INET: pete@pro-europa.cts.com