[comp.sys.apple] The good old days...

jon@cisunx.UUCP (Jon M Pearsall) (10/28/88)

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So, whatever happened to comp.binaries.apple2?  Or, for that matter, how
'bout APPLE2-L@BROWNVM?  Doesn't anyone have any more public domain
software?

And from reading this newsgroup lately: Does anyone out there still own
a //e and not a GS?  Or am I all alone now?  That 'u' button looks
better and better every day.


 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jon M. Pearsall, University of Pittsburgh =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
 = UUCP: !pitt!cisunx!jon                    As the Zorg closes in, Spaceman =
 = Internet: jon@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu     Spiff cooly draws his death ray =
 = Bitnet: JON@PITTVMS                       blaster.  -- Calvin             =
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 

cuthbert@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Robert Cuthbertson) (11/01/88)

In article <13387@cisunx.UUCP> jon@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Jon M Pearsall) writes:
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>And from reading this newsgroup lately: Does anyone out there still own
>a //e and not a GS?  Or am I all alone now?  That 'u' button looks
>better and better every day.
>
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jon M. Pearsall, University of Pittsburgh =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 


I have to agree!  I really would rather not miss out on the //+, //e and //c
stuff, but I have no particular interest in the ins and outs of GS/OS, etc.

Anyone for the creation of comp.sys.apple.gs?  I sure am.

--Rob Cuthbertson

+-----                                                   /              -----+
! The Real Me : ..!{ncar.nbires}!boulder!tramp!cuthbert / "Did I know Jesus? !
!  (or, for you weenies) : cuthbert@tramp.Colorado.EDU / Man, I _was_ Jesus!"!
+-----                                                /                 -----+

rupp@cod.NOSC.MIL (William L. Rupp) (11/01/88)

  In article <4388@boulder.Colorado.EDU> cuthbert@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Robert Cuthbertson) writes:
  >In article <13387@cisunx.UUCP> jon@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Jon M Pearsall) writes:
  >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >>And from reading this newsgroup lately: Does anyone out there still own
  >>a //e and not a GS?  Or am I all alone now?  That 'u' button looks
  >>better and better every day.
  >>
  >> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jon M. Pearsall, University of Pittsburgh =-=-=-=-=-=-=
  >
  >I have to agree!  I really would rather not miss out on the //+, //e and //c
  >stuff, but I have no particular interest in the ins and outs of GS/OS, etc.
  >
  >Anyone for the creation of comp.sys.apple.gs?  I sure am.
  >
  >--Rob Cuthbertson
  >

This is interesting, and (he says without the slightest trace of humillity
or shame) not at all surprising.  The GS, operating in its native mode
rather than as an over-priced Apple //e, is a separate, distinct
computer.  As one who is primarily interested in the GS side, I
routinely ignore the 8-bit stuff.  It boils down to this, I think; the
Apple IIGS is really not an Apple II, it's just a different computer
that can, for marketablility reasons, pretend its an Apple //e.  The
memory configuration is different, the graphics are different, the sound
capability is different, and the OS is different.

I suspect a separate GS newgroup would be a good idea.  

Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
...who, as always, speaks for himself only......
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pmwenzel@tybalt.caltech.edu (Peter M. Wenzel) (11/01/88)

In article <1287@cod.NOSC.MIL> rupp@cod.nosc.mil.UUCP (William L. Rupp) writes:
>
>I suspect a separate GS newgroup would be a good idea.  
>
>Bill
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>...who, as always, speaks for himself only......
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Include my vote, if anyone's keeping track.
__________________________________________________________________________
         ___                       ||
      __/   \   _                  ||  Pete Wenzel
     / _     \_/ \__^__/\_/-\      ||  Mail Code 1-60
    | | |     ---PMWenzel---->     ||  California Institute of Technology
    | |_|     ==============/      ||  Pasadena, CA  91126
     \__     / @CITRomeo.Bitnet    ||  (818) 577-9005
        \___/ @Juliet.Caltech.Edu  ||
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abc@BRL.MIL (Brint Cooper) (11/01/88)

	Before everyone jumps on the "create a comp.sys.apple.gs"
bandwagon, be advised that the Internet mailing list,
info-apple@brl.mil, is an essential part of the apple information
exchange and is gatewayed bidirectionally to comp.sys.apple.  

	I am not at all interested in maintaining two Internet mailing
lists.

	Further, it wouldn't be surprising that to see the GS survive as
the only Apple II product sometime soon.

_Brint

ALBRO@NIEHS.BITNET (11/02/88)

There seems to be some pressure to form separate IIgs and II<gs news
groups.  Since I use both a IIgs and three IIe's regularly, and since
the IIgs gets used for both 8- and 16- applications, and since I doubt
if I am unique here, I would much rather not see a split.  However, it
is sad to see users ashamed to ask IIe questions or offer IIe tips!

gallo@fstvax.dec.com (Cool for Cats) (11/02/88)

	I too am a little disappointed with the newsgroup
going mostly //gs.I favor a gs specific group also.

Side Note: Anybody out there using Aztec C on the //? I do and
	   would like to know who else uses it.Maybe we could share 
	   ideas and solutions for programming C on the //.

	Tom Gallo


| (UUCP)       {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!fstvax.dec.com!gallo |
| (ARPA)       gallo%fstvax.DEC@decwrl.ARPA                          |
| (BITNET)     gallo@fstvax.dec.com                                  |
|Disclaimer: 	*** Opinions expressed here are my own ***	     |
|               ***     Not those of my employer.      ***           |

halp@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu ("Bruce P. Halpern") (11/02/88)

RE: SEPARATE GROUPS FOR //gs AND FOR THE //e & //c SET

I vote yes. I'm part of the //e & //c components,  and  generally skip
without reading anything that's obviously //gs.

****DISCLAMER: My comments, etc., are my own shakey opinions ********



  |  Bruce P. Halpern  Psychology & Neurobiology & Behavior Cornell Ithaca    |
  |  INTERNET:halp@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu  BITNET:D57J@CORNELLA  D57J@CRNLVAX5|
  |  UUCP:{vax135,rochester,decvax}!cornell!batcomputer!halp                  |
  |  PHONE: 607-255-6433    Uris Hall, Cornell U., Ithaca, NY 14853-7601      | 
dp

jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") (11/03/88)

I believe a separate newsgroup would be a bad idea.

First off, one reason people talk so much about the GS is because most of the
software and the OS is so new that it has a great deal fo problems and needs
discussion. 8-bit mode is nice and reliable.

There is not enough emphasis on developing 8-bit mode. The GS is the supreme
//e, but its 16bit OS is slow and tedious, as well as its interface.

Finally, the rumors and similarities between the GS and the Mac seem to be
pointing toward the "Macification" of the // line (see the Golden Gate rumors).
Apple is trying to sell the GS as a Mac and make it look like a Mac. It can
still be played with like our old reliable 8-bit hobby machines (which started
this whole damned industry, and still have a lot to offer), but Apple doesn't
recognize us as a "market." I'm afraid a gs-specific internet board may be
short-lived unless Apple makes some serious policy changes.


Capt. Albatross
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu

============
Bureuacracy takes all the fun out of computing.
disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are made under duress of academic
stress and is often prone to overzealous error. The author, not enjoying the
prospect of remaining eternally ignorant, therefore welcomes any replies that
would further that end.

c60c-3aw@web-2c.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) (11/03/88)

It would be neat if there were some quick & easy way to screen out GS articles
for those who don't want them (e.g. "GS" in the title).  Since most GS owners
are probably interested in the //ec+ discussions, the creation of a new group
would be primarily for the covnenience of //ec+ owners.

I find it interesting that 90% of the non-GS articles the past two days are
from people wanting to split into two groups... there really hasn't been that
much traffic for standard IIs.

If the //gs weren't so painful to use in native mode, the traffic for //ec+
would probably be close to zero.


APDA is dead!?!  The first time I wrote to Apple for technical info (a while
back...) it took them two months to figure out what I wanted, and they
didn't get it quite right.  The next time was a little better, but they were
still a bit confused...  This was 2-3 years ago, so hopefully they've
improved some.


Sometimes the //gs reminds me of the PC Jr.  Less powerful than a Mac, but
still trying to be one.  There were rumors that the "chicklet" keyboard was
an attempt to keep the lower-priced Jr. out of the office; it wound up
hurting it badly.  65816 anyone? :-)

-- 
fadden@zen.berkeley.edu [crashed]
c60c-3aw@widow.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden)
"Yes, those are my opinions.  Believe it or not."

rupp@cod.NOSC.MIL (William L. Rupp) (11/04/88)

In article <EXPnWcy00V48M6m2Fn@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Jeremy G. Mereness") writes:
  
  >There is not enough emphasis on developing 8-bit mode. The GS is the supreme
                                                          ======================
  >//e, but its .....
   ===  

Wrong.  The GS is no  more a //e than a //e.  It puzzles me why
some people have trouble understanding that.  The Apple IIGS is a distinct
machine, more like the Macintosh than the //e, but with the capability of
running //e software for marketing reasons.  The GS has its strengths
and weaknesses, as have been pointed out in this newgroup by a number of
posters.  But an Apple II it is not, any more than a Commodore 128 is
a Commodore 64 just because it can run C-64 software.

I guess my reasoning amounts to a case in favor of creating a separate
IIGS newsgroup.  //e, //c and ][+ owners have little to learn from
discussions of hardware and software (e.g., GS/OS) that their machines
don't support.  Any more than a //e owner can learn from a discussion of
MS-DOS or UNIX, which is not much unless the //e owner also uses a clone
or a UNIX box.

On the other hand, IIGS users can read the comp.sys.apple group if they
want to keep up on what is going on in the 8-bit field.

Actually, I am emotionally neutral of this issue of unified vs. separate
newgroups.  But based on its relation to the traditonal Apple II line
(minimal and reluctant), the IIGS merits it's own group.

Speaking of the Apple II line, I guess what I am saying is that the
IIGS marks the end of that line, since its enchancements were not added
onto the //e capabilities but appeared instead in the form of a different
system.  It's the first Apple II that does not run earlier Apple II
software in its native (i.e., 16 bit) mode.

Bill
------------------------------------------------------------------	
As usual, these thoughts represent my opinion only.
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HEACOCK@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU (Doug Heacock) (11/04/88)

I am a //e owner with no plans to upgrade to a //GS (I've got my sights
set on a Mac)--I like the idea of a separate GS group.  Will the non-GS
users among us be able to keep the old group going?

Doug Heacock                  :  Bitnet:   HEACOCK@UKANVAX
Academic Computing Services   :  Internet: HEACOCK@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU
The University of Kansas      :  
Lawrence, Kansas              :  

daveharv@pro-novapple.UUCP (Dave Harvey) (11/05/88)

Although I'm an Apple IIGS owner and have been for a while, I myself wouldn't
like the idea of a seperate newsgroup just for GS stuff.   There are still
lots of subjects that apply to both computers and it would really be a pain to
have to now check two newsgroups to find out the latest info.  Many add-ons to
both computers are the same, such as hard disks, monitors, disk drives, etc. 
Besides, most discussions on software for the Apple II also apply to the GS. 
As someone recently commented, there's not too much GS specific software
around.  You can count them on your fingers and toes.
 
proline: pro-novapple!daveharv
uucp: crash!pro-novapple!daveharv
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Internet: daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com
Northern Virginia Apple Users Group >pro-novapple< 703-671-0416/300-2400 baud

jon@cisunx.UUCP (Jon M Pearsall) (11/08/88)

In article <8811020503.aa13715@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> ALBRO@NIEHS.BITNET writes:
>There seems to be some pressure to form separate IIgs and II<gs news
>groups......
>                ......I would much rather not see a split.  However, it
>is sad to see users ashamed to ask IIe questions or offer IIe tips!
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes!  That's the problem!

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jon M. Pearsall, University of Pittsburgh =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
 = UUCP: !pitt!cisunx!jon                    As the Zorg closes in, Spaceman =
 = Internet: jon@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu     Spiff cooly draws his death ray =
 = Bitnet: JON@PITTVMS                       blaster.  -- Calvin             =
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 

ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) (11/08/88)

In article <4388@boulder.Colorado.EDU> cuthbert@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Robert Cuthbertson) writes:
>I have to agree!  I really would rather not miss out on the //+, //e and //c
>stuff, but I have no particular interest in the ins and outs of GS/OS, etc.
>
>Anyone for the creation of comp.sys.apple.gs?  I sure am.

Me!  Me!  (After one month of using rn, today I just decided to learn
how to use Kill ... and I'm pissed.  I >still< saw a GS subject after
deleting the first line and re-entering!)

(i have no affiliation, so ignore any implied organization.)

meb4074@cec1.wustl.edu (Mark Edward Bradley) (02/06/90)

In article <1500@husc6.harvard.edu> ehsu@husc7.UUCP (Eric Hsu) writes:
>but let's not get so uppity. Some twenty-year-olds (me !) like games too.
>In fact a fair number of CS majors (I'm not one) that I know grew up on IIs.
>They first played games on the Apple II and then began hacking out programs 
>on the II, then emerging into full CS-dom in college. I wonder if the same 
>sort of cycle is happening on the Amiga machines? I dunno. 
>	Now that I've digressed, I'm remembering a little of the fun and 
>comraderie of me and my friends programming little Applesoft games, trying
>to top each other. To me, that's what personal computing's all about. I kind
>of miss that now. Maybe it's because I'm at college now, but I don't see much
>of that any more. Does it still happen? That is, are there any non-serious 
>programmers out there?
>
>						Nostalgically,
>
>						Eric Hsu
>						ehsu@husc4.UUCP
>						ehsu@husc4.Bitnet
>Eric Hsu                           ehsu@husc4.Bitnet, ehsu@husc4.UUCP

I'm a twenty-year-old that followed exactly that path into the world of
computers (God, I sound like a Nintendo commercial) My first computer was a
][+ when I was in 7th grade. Before a year had passed, I had filled up about
a hundred disks with Applesoft programs, most of them games. When my games got
too complex for Applesoft (which wasn't too high a degree of complexity), I
learned 6502 assembly. Ah, good old 16 bit addressing and 1 MHz speed!! So here
I am in college, a CS major, with my ][ and my program collection in my room.
It doesn't get much use now, my girlfriend will play Shanghai on it or I will
use this Applesoft compiler I found recently to speed up some of my more
cumbersome old games and laugh at the results. But I couldn't bear to part with
it, (snif) because sometimes I'll pull out Castle Wolfenstein or Ultima and
relive those days of yore....

-- 
Mark Bradley              "Don't cry for lost souls -- you might drown."
meb4074@cec2.wustl.edu

dtroup@carroll1.cc.edu (David C. Troup) (02/07/90)

In article <1990Feb6.120746.22035@cec1.wustl.edu> meb4074@cec2.UUCP (Mark Edward Bradley) writes:
>I am in college, a CS major, with my ][ and my program collection in my room.
>It doesn't get much use now, my girlfriend will play Shanghai on it or I will
>use this Applesoft compiler I found recently to speed up some of my more
>cumbersome old games and laugh at the results. But I couldn't bear to part with
>it, (snif) because sometimes I'll pull out Castle Wolfenstein or Ultima and
>relive those days of yore....

	I know what you mean. Got a IIe when they came out, began hacking
	wares 'cause I couldnt afford any. Early "Cheap-O-Writer" and other
	wares became some of my most customized software that I used. When I
	started into the commercial software, I couldnt stand having someone
	elses wares on MY machine! I allways knoew what lines of code were
	being executed when mine ran, but now I've got this protected ware
	doing god-knows-what on my system!

	Hell, I still code my old Sinclair ZX81 that I got when I was 12! Just
	for old times sake...

	Now I'm 21, an Artificial Intelligence major, Ive got my GS, IIe and a
	donated II+ in my room (Also, my Toshiba t1000 for portable hacks),
	and I'm looking at a 86000 based machine (ie Amiga). But nothing could
	make me sell my IIgs. I'll add the Transwarp GS, and other goodies.
	It's a geat hacking machine...bar none. From display hacks to visual
	imaging software (for the robot) to life/core wars. I LOVE the apple
	II line, and Ive got ALOT of time (not to mention $$) invested in it.
	With all of these machines around, how can the fun die? We just gotta
	spend the hour or so playing with monitor, or writing small hacks that
	are FUN. 

	I'd be interested in getting together with other Apple Hackers out
	there for some personal hack trading, and ideas too! If you missed my
	sound routine hack a while back (thanks to Cheshire Cat!), let me know
	and I'll zip it off to ya.

	later,

-- 
David C. Troup ! SkunkWorks ! 2600 hz           |"Im going to work at an office
       dtroup@carroll1.cc.edu                   | that has no phone, and
    414-524-6809(dorm)7343(work)                | returning home with sandy
The Surf Rat - DC 12 on Neil Pryde and Seatrend | feet."