[comp.sys.apple] MPW IIgs kit -- useful for a IIe?

mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (02/02/90)

In article <3784@hub.UUCP> 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Pete Gontier) writes:
>I need to know if the IIgs kit for MPW is useful for the IIe.
>
In general, yes, especially if you're a high-powered developer.

>I understand that the IIgs toolbox has a lot of calls in common with the
>Mac, and I know how _d e v e l o p_ (c.f., the article on the assembly
>environment for the II series) lists it, but I can't seem to get
>apda@applelink.apple.com to tell me one way or another on the following
>stuff (or answer my mail at all...):
>
APDA does not do product support on the items they sell, and last time I
looked they didn't even pretend to.  If you ask them for data sheets they
should send them, but more often than not they can't answer questions.

>    for the IIe environment, does the kit do:
>      o  Pascal? C?

No.  The MPW IIgs C and Pascal compilers only produce 65816 code.

>      o  native code stand-alones?

Yes.  Although the tools by default produce Apple IIgs OMF, the assembler can
be instructed to only accept 6502 or 65C02 instructions, and a tool known as
"MakeBinIIgs" is provided which takes an OMF file and turns it into a straight
binary file.

>      o  nice safe TTY output?
>      o  passable graphics?

If you're developing for a IIe, you're limited to the target machine.  You can,
of course, write code that uses the 80-column firmware, hi-res or double hi-res
graphics just as you would on a native development system.  The assembler does
not provide graphics or TTY output libraries to link in, if that is what you
are asking.  Powerful IIe graphics packages (like ESS's "Pizzazz" package,
which is targeted exclusively for eight-bit development) are available for such
things.

>   and, importantly,
>      o  can I write and debug on a Mac and run binaries on a IIe?
>

It depends on what you mean by "debug".  You do not run IIe code under MPW or
on the Mac in general.  You use a tool called "duplicateIIgs", a program called
"Apple File Exchange" or AppleShare file servers to get your program from the
Macintosh onto a ProDOS disk (or onto a server that the IIe target machine
can access).  There is no cross-debugger included.

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Pete Gontier   | InterNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa
>Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription
>Hire this kid  | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills

-- 
============================================================================
Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are
Developer Technical Support, Apple II |  not necessarily those of Apple
Group.  Personal mail only, please.   |  Computer, Inc.  Remember that."
============================================================================

greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (02/02/90)

In article <38267@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes:
>In article <3784@hub.UUCP> 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Pete Gontier) writes:
>>I need to know if the IIgs kit for MPW is useful for the IIe.
>>
>In general, yes, especially if you're a high-powered developer.

 I went to the apple ftp site to see if anything I could use was there,
but it looked like the MPW environment runs on the Macintosh, and the
APW environment runs on the IIgs.  Can any part of the tools placed
at the apple ftp site be run on a IIe?  Or must the software be 
developed on a Mac/IIgs then sent to the IIe to test?  

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Pete Gontier   | InterNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa
>>Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription
>>Hire this kid  | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills
>-- 
>============================================================================
>Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are
>Developer Technical Support, Apple II |  not necessarily those of Apple
>Group.  Personal mail only, please.   |  Computer, Inc.  Remember that."
>============================================================================

and my sig--
---
Michael J Pender Jr  Box 1942 c/o W.P.I.        ... (Mankind) has already 
greyelf@wpi.bitnet   100 Institute Rd.          used its last chance.
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu  Worcester, Ma 01609               - Gen. MacArthur

pem@cadnetix.COM (Paul Meyer) (02/09/90)

In article <3784@hub.UUCP> 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Pete Gontier) writes:
>I need to know if the IIgs kit for MPW is useful for the IIe.
>
	As far as I've heard, and the descriptions in the APDAlog say,
	no.  This is not surprising because the //gs is set up to be very
	(and with every system release grows to be even more) similar
	to a Mac; earlier //'s aren't.

	According to the _Develop_ sample copy I was sent, however, there
	is a very nice all-//'s cross-ASSEMBLER that runs under the
	MPW //gs tools environment.  For a Mac programmer, there just
	isn't support for anything like an easy port; you still must use
	ProDOS (8) calls and conventions for memory use, etc.

Paul Meyer                      pem@cadnetix.COM
Daisy/Cadnetix Inc. (DAZIX)	{uunet,boulder}!cadnetix!pem
5775 Flatirons Pkwy.            GEnie P.MEYER  CI$ 73627,1274  AoL LordKorath
Boulder, CO 80301               (303)444-8075x277

wombat@claris.com (Scott Lindsey) (02/10/90)

In article <11364@cadnetix.COM> pem@cadnetix.COM (Paul Meyer) writes:

> In article <3784@hub.UUCP> 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Pete Gontier) writes:
> >I need to know if the IIgs kit for MPW is useful for the IIe.

> As far as I've heard, and the descriptions in the APDAlog say,
> no.  This is not surprising because the //gs is set up to be very
> (and with every system release grows to be even more) similar
> to a Mac; earlier //'s aren't.

Excuse me, but what are you talking about?  The similarities between interface
have nothing to do with the robustness and usability of the development
environment.

By the way, whether or not MPWIIgs is useful for other II development is a
matter of opinion.  I'd have to say "yes," since AppleWorks 3.0 was built
that way.

Scott Lindsey     | I dig iguana in their outer space duds
Claris Corp.      |    saying, "Aren't you glad we only eat bugs?"
ames!claris!wombat| DISCLAIMER: These are not the opinions of Claris, Apple,
wombat@claris.com |    StyleWare, the author, or anyone else living or Dead.