[comp.sys.apple] backing up 3.5" disks

grisanti@plains.UUCP (Ames Grisanti) (02/12/90)

I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a program to
backup 3.5" disks to multiple 5.25" disks. What would be nice
is if it would function similar to the BACKUP command of
MS-DOS. 


Ames Grisanti
[grisanti@plains.NoDak.edu      --         Internet]
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dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) (02/13/90)

In article <3393@plains.UUCP> grisanti@plains.UUCP (Ames Grisanti) writes:
>I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a program to
>backup 3.5" disks to multiple 5.25" disks. What would be nice
>is if it would function similar to the BACKUP command of
>MS-DOS. 

My Davex 8 command shell comes with a pair of commands called 'vstore'
and 'vrestore' that can save and restore ProDOS volumes to and from
ProDOS files, and they're smart enough to ask for more disks when they
need to.

I was actually thinking of folks saving RAMdisk images onto real disks,
but the commands will work for backing up 3.5s onto 5.25s if you really
want to.

I don't know how BACKUP works in MS-DOS, so I don't know if mine is
similar.  The syntax is  vstore volume-name pathname  and
vrestore pathname device-number.
-- 

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greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (02/15/90)

In article <3393@plains.UUCP> grisanti@plains.UUCP (Ames Grisanti) writes:
>
>I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a program to
>backup 3.5" disks to multiple 5.25" disks. What would be nice
>is if it would function similar to the BACKUP command of
>MS-DOS. 

You could use shrinkit to compress the disk, then binscii to write
the disk in segments to 5 1/4 inch disks.

I could write a routine to do this for you in a matter of minutes,
I have already written one very similar.  But I find myself asking
one question, why would you want to?  3.5 inch disks are MUCH
mroe reliable, and easier to use.

If you have a decent reason let me know, I'll write you one by Monday...

 ---
Michael J Pender Jr  Box 1942 c/o W.P.I.   W.O.S. is not dead.
greyelf@wpi.bitnet   100 Institute Rd.     ...its time to get started,
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu  Worcester, Ma 01609   there is much to be done.
If my next computer isn't a IIgs, it won't be an apple... Me.

cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Alfter) (02/15/90)

In article <8277@wpi.wpi.edu> greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) writes:
>I have already written one very similar.  But I find myself asking
>one question, why would you want to?  3.5 inch disks are MUCH
>more reliable, and easier to use.

I would also have to question the original poster's logic behind backing up
3.5" disks on 5.25" disks.  However, I do question Mr. Pender's claim that
3.5" disks are more reliable than 5.25" disks.  I've had the opposite
experience.  In four-and-a-half years I've never had a disk go bad on my
IIe.  When I came to the University of Illinois and started using Macs in some
of my classes, I had to start getting 3.5" disks.  I've had at least three
disks go bad in the six months I've been here.  3.5" disks are nice for their
large capacity, but I question their reliability, at least as you claim that
they are "MUCH more reliable."

Scott Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu    _/_ Apple IIe: the power to be your best!
          alfter@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu/ v \
          saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (    (              A keyboard--how quaint!
  Bitnet: free0066@uiucvmd.bitnet    \_^_/                     --M. Scott, STIV

huang@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (Howard Huang) (02/15/90)

>... When I came to the University of Illinois and started using Macs in some
>of my classes, I had to start getting 3.5" disks.  I've had at least three
>disks go bad in the six months I've been here.  3.5" disks are nice for their
>large capacity, but I question their reliability, at least as you claim that
>they are "MUCH more reliable."
>
>Scott Alfter

Are you using the new Macs with FDHD 1.44 MB disks?  A lot of people seem
to have disks chomped by the drives.  I don't really know what the situation
is with the FDHD.  But in 3.5 years with a IIgs, and 1.5 years with 800K
Mac drives, I've never had any problems with a 3.5 inch disk.

I guess some reasons why they're "more reliable" than 5.25 disks is:
a) they're hard plastic and less likely to be bent.
b) the disk surface is covered by that little slidey thing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howard C. Huang                        Internet:  huang@husc4.harvard.edu
Sophomore Computer Science Major       Bitnet:    huang@husc4.BITNET
Mather House 426, Harvard College      UUCP:      huang@husc4.UUCP (I think)
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greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (02/15/90)

In article <38570@apple.Apple.COM> dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) writes:
>I was actually thinking of folks saving RAMdisk images onto real disks,
>but the commands will work for backing up 3.5s onto 5.25s if you really
>want to.

I wrote a command a  little while ago to copy the image of my 3.5 inch 
system disk onto my slot 5 ramdisk so that I could access the normal
utilities at high speed.

I didn't think there would be any interest im my posting it, so I didn't.

Maybe I should.

greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu (Michael J Pender) (02/16/90)

In article <1990Feb14.210246.8176@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Alfter) writes:
>I would also have to question the original poster's logic behind backing up
>3.5" disks on 5.25" disks.  However, I do question Mr. Pender's claim that
>3.5" disks are more reliable than 5.25" disks.  I've had the opposite
>experience.  In four-and-a-half years I've never had a disk go bad on my
>IIe.  When I came to the University of Illinois and started using Macs in some
>of my classes, I had to start getting 3.5" disks.  I've had at least three
>disks go bad in the six months I've been here.  3.5" disks are nice for their
>large capacity, but I question their reliability, at least as you claim that
>they are "MUCH more reliable."

I have had roughly twenty 5.25 inch disks go bad on me in the eight years
I've been using apples, but have never had a 3.5 inch disk go bad on 
my machine (except for the time I shorted the address lines :^)

The construction of 3.5 inch drives is superior, the control circuitry
is much more precise.  In addition 3.5 inch disks have a longer useful 
lifespan.  They are much less accident prone, since the shutter keeps
out stray dust particles (and fingers, don't forget fingers).

The metal hub ring causes more accurate seating, and the rigid case
causes less flexing on the disk media itself.

I have a friend who killed a 3.5 inch disk once.  She left it
in her pants pocket and it went through the wash.

That is not to say you can't get the occasional bad piece of 
media out of the box, especially with the cheapies I buy.
---
Michael J Pender Jr  Box 1942 c/o W.P.I.   W.O.S. is not dead.
greyelf@wpi.bitnet   100 Institute Rd.     ...its time to get started,
greyelf@wpi.wpi.edu  Worcester, Ma 01609   there is much to be done.
If my next computer isn't a IIgs, it won't be an apple... Me.

cs225af@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (02/16/90)

Obviously, 3.5" disks are more physically rugged and durable than
their 5.25" counterparts.  That is, they can take more physical
abuse:  dropping, scratching, bending (?), heat, cold, liquids,
dust, etc.

The reason is pretty clear:  they're jacketed by a rugged, firm
plastic case with a metallic shutter protecting the media itself
from direct exposure from anything.

From this standpoint, 3.5" disks should be expected to outlive
5.25" in a less than ideal environment.  Basically, they are
far more accident proof.


Pass for pass, however, 3.5" disks are (rumored to be) far worse
than 5.25" disks!  The data is packed far more densely, and there
is more of it; normal wear and tear from disk usage affects the
media itself at least as much as that of 5.25" disks, probably
even more.  Plus, the data density is so much higher that the
same imperfections or random magnetic interference/contamination
of the disk surface will affect the 3.5 far more than a 5.25.

Thus, it is actually true that the magnetic media itself lasts
considerably longer for 5.25" disks than for 3.5" disks.  People
who use Macs or PS/2 --ahem-- computers  can probably attest to
this.  It really isn't just your imagination:  5.25" lasts longer!


-- rubio