gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) (02/07/90)
Well, I found out something that interested me this afternoon. While strolling through the University Computing Center, I passed the Computer Store. I looked in the window and saw a sign with new info on it. So out of mild interest, I walked up to the sign/poster and read it. There was a little piece of paper that said: "APPLE DROPS PRICE ON MAC + AND MAC SE's" So I looked at the prices... Guess what? I can get a Mac + for under $900. Isn't that sick? That's how much just the GS's CPU costs without a drive or monitor. $900 for the computer, keyboard, monitor, drive, the whole package. I'm disgusted. I would give you the discounted university price for a GS, BUT THE STORE WON'T SELL GS'S. They say "Our contract with Apple is for the Mac series only". I'm really peeved... I can handle the MPW Dynamo and GS cross compiler, etc, because it's true. You can develop faster on a Mac than on a II. But the fact that I can get a full Mac+ system for less than a bare bones GS system really upsets me. Oh well... Hopefully with the introduction of ROM 04 and System 6, people will begin developing more for the GS now. -Greg T. BTW: Is System 6 still planned to be released on Feb 14th?
cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Alfter) (02/07/90)
Yes, it is a bit unnerving that you can get a Mac for less than a GS, but let's
think this thing through a little more carefully. OK, so the Mac Plus is a
complete system, ready-to-go out of the box. What do you get, though? It has
1 megabyte of memory. The GS has that. Currently, an unaccelerated GS running
System 5.0.2 is every bit as responsive as the Mac Plus. After taking these
two facts into consideration, though, I see several factors that lie heavily in
favor of the IIGS. First, the GS has color graphics--you may not have terribly
high resolution, but that should be corrected in ROM 04. The Mac Plus has a
diminuitive 9" screen built-in. With a GS, you can use just about any
monitor--from the green screen left over from your upgrade from a IIe, to the
AppleColor RGB monitor that's pretty much standard, to a 50" big-screen TV if
you so desire! Do that with a Mac! Also, what about the Mac Plus's relative
difficulty in handling upgrades? It's a closed system; there isn't much you
can add to it. On the other hand, you could stuff a GS with megabytes of RAM,
audio boards to further enhance the GS's already-terrific sound, modem cards
to connect your computer to the outside world.... We have a bunch of Mac
Pluses downstairs in the computer lab, and they don't impress me. They're
some of the most lethargic computers ever made. A Transwarped GS would run
rings around them! Try getting these features on a Mac Plus--some of them
you can't buy at any price!
Speaking of prices, though, Apple does need to reduce the price on the GS
some--at the very least, the ROM 04 shouldn't cost more than current versions.
Scott Alfter-------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple IIe: the power to be your best!
alfter@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu/ v \
saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ( ( A keyboard--how quaint!
free0066@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu \_^_/ --M. Scott, STIVnicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (02/10/90)
In article <EZntfzK00WAH01WKQb@andrew.cmu.edu>, gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gregory Ross Thompson) writes: > But the fact that I can get a full Mac+ system for less > than a bare bones GS system really upsets me. Does this mean? Dare I say it? That it is economical to develop on a Macintosh using Dynamo or MPW IIGS?? Makes me wonder how many people scream: The mac is too expensive... are actually fooling themselves. First on my priority list of things to get are: ROM 03 IIGS and then a Mac SE or SE/30 to do cross-development work. > Oh well... Hopefully > with the introduction of ROM 04 and System 6, people will begin > developing more for the GS now. > BTW: Is System 6 still planned to be released on Feb 14th? You gotta be kidding?? There's so much turmoil at Apple right now with Gassee's departure that his leaving will overshadow anything Apple does (unless it's something bad). I'd kind of hope they would delay introductions a bit until things calm down and any product releases can stand up on their own merit (or lack of it). andy -- Yeah!
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (02/11/90)
In article <977@batman.moravian.EDU> nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) writes: >First on my priority list of things to get are: ROM 03 IIGS and then a >Mac SE or SE/30 to do cross-development work. Three computers where one should do? (Or two, if you sell off your ROM 01 IIGS.) What a concept. One thing we should all have learned from UNIX is the value of having the system developers doing their own work on the system they're responsible for. That provides great motivation to improve the system!
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (02/14/90)
On Fri, 9 Feb 90 16:34:59 GMT you said: >> BTW: Is System 6 still planned to be released on Feb 14th? The invitation to a press bash was canceled last week. Perhaps for the reason Andy gave (below) or possibly Apple discoved that Big Blue invited everyone to the long awaited PS/2-RT (System 6000) unveiling on the same day (Apple's announcement would have been pushed to the back pages for sure). >You gotta be kidding?? There's so much turmoil at Apple right now with >Gassee's departure that his leaving will overshadow anything Apple does >(unless it's something bad). I'd kind of hope they would delay introductions >a bit until things calm down and any product releases can stand up on >their own merit (or lack of it). Eveidently, Jean Louis isn't vanishing, just resigning some of his responsibilities. Press reports say he feels he was demoted (he was) and doesn't think it fair that he's taking most of the heat for Apple's disappointing recent sales numbers. Based on what I've been hearing about the chaos among Apple's senior managers about strategic direction, it probably IS unfair to lay more than a share of the blame at Jean Louis's door. Anyway, a RAGING debate is underway (whether the problem really IS neglect of the low end and what to do about it), and there's no reasonable way a predicting the outcome. Sculley HAS announced there would be NO new low-end Mac this year (that doesn't mean the price of the SE won't fall like the proverbial stone). He conspicuously didn't say anything about a possible new Apple II (in spite of the grousing about prices, the Apple II is regarded by virtually the entire industry as a "low-end" machine -- in price terms; in performance it's relative). Apple has NOT decided whether or not to market the ROM 04 machine nor how many features (to SWIM chip or not, for instance) to put in it if they do introduce it. For those of you yelling UPGRADE!! the ROM 04 is carefully designed to use existing keybooards, monitors, and peripherals You might have to replace RAM with faster chips, or the thing might use memory caching and wait states to accomodate current RAM (it might do to express a rational opinion to Jerry Cline about your preference). No SIMMS (at least not in the current beta version). So far, the motherrboard is reported to be physically smaller than the ROM 03. How much can the case cost? You'll be able to upgrade by buying a new CPU. The economics of trade-in (with attendant administrative overhead) may be such that a motherboard swap would be as expensive as a new CPU. In short, "upgrade" seems like a non-issue. /s Murph <Sewall%UConnVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu> [Internet] or ...{psuvax1 or mcvax}!uconnvm.bitnet!sewall [UUCP] + Standard disclaimer applies ("The opinions expressed are my own" etc.)
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) (02/17/90)
On Wed, 14 Feb 90 18:44:08 EST you said: >In article <9002141548.AA08264@apple.com> you write: >> >>So far, the motherboard is reported to be physically smaller than the >>ROM 03. How much can the case cost? You'll be able to upgrade by buying >>a new CPU. The economics of trade-in (with attendant administrative >>overhead) may be such that a motherboard swap would be as expensive as >>a new CPU. In short, "upgrade" seems like a non-issue. >> > Is this necessarily true? The keyboard and mouse costs $150+, the power >supply and case probably come to as much again. A lot of the components on >the mother board could probably be reclaimed, at least the RAM and the IWM >chips. Video ROM would probably be outmoded, but the CPU could still be >sold to a manufacturer of microwave ovens. I've always tended to believe >the $300 replacement cost for all motherboard repairs when not under >warranty. I'm expecting an upgrade to ROM04 for less than C$500. > Should I be worried? The manufacturing cost of the case and power supply is unlikely to be anywhere near $150 and the administrative cost of running a recall program (and selling sencond-hand electronics) could easily match the expennse of producing cases and power supplies. Actually, the COST isn't the relevant number. Demand is the primary issue. Suppose Apple prices the CPU and "upgrade" such that they make the same profit regardless (recall that most analyses of the //e to IIgs upgrade concluded that the cost came out about the same either way)? In that event, you and most others would probably perceive the upgrade as "too expensive." But, if Apple lowers the upgrade price, the issue is: would there be enough additional sales to offset the loss in margin (realisitically, probably not)? If you REALLY expect the difference between ROM 03 and ROM 04 to only be worth approximately the cost of an accelerator for the ROM 03 machine, then you should be depressed (either that or you really do believe in the tooth fairy). Frankly, I hope Apple builds enough additional functionality into the ROM 04 machine to be worth an additional investment on the order of $2,000 (but maybe priced at $1,800 :-) /s Murph <Sewall%UConnVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu> [Internet] or ...{psuvax1 or mcvax}!uconnvm.bitnet!sewall [UUCP] + Standard disclaimer applies ("The opinions expressed are my own" etc.)