rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) (02/13/90)
We have seen a lot of postings on netnews, and we have received a lot of calls at APDA, requesting that Phil and Dave's Excellent CD be made available through APDA. Hopefully the following will answer any questions you have about this: Phil and Dave's Excellent CD is restricted to Apple Partners and Associates due to the very preliminary nature of some of the materials contained on the CD-ROM. We want to be assured that those who receive these pre-pre-release code samples and tools have access to Apple Developer Technical Support. Please be assured that all the tools and references on Phil and Dave's Excellent CD that are considered robust enough for general distribution do go through APDA as soon as they have been tested. Many items on Phil and Dave's Excellent CD are already sold through APDA, including Macintosh and Apple II sample code, system software, and the technical notes HyperCard stack. Other features of Phil and Dave's Excellent CD, including SpInside Mac and international versions of HyperCard, will be available through APDA as soon as we can "productize" them. We appreciate your interest in these products. Our goal at APDA is still to give Apple's development products the widest possible distribution. When the tools on Phil and Dave's Excellent CD are ready for such distribution, they will be made available as soon as possible through APDA. Rick Fleischman Developer Channels/APDA Apple Computer, Inc. e-mail: rickf@apple.com AppleLink: FLEISCHMAN@applelink.apple.com
gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (02/13/90)
In article <6635@internal.Apple.COM>, rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) writes... Rick says (my paraphrase): [ Some P & D stuff is too "pre-pre-prerelease" for general distrib. People] [who get it should have access to DTS] > >We appreciate your interest in these products. Our goal at APDA is still >to give Apple's development products the widest possible distribution. >When the tools on Phil and Dave's Excellent CD are ready for such >distribution, they will be made available as soon as possible through APDA. Sounds fairly reasonable, but if the time delay is >=, say, 4-6 months, it really would be better for us if we got the buggy versions than to get the good versions half a year late. By that time, the Partners/Associates will already be on to the newest P & D disk, again 6 months ahead of "the rest of us". If it takes only, say, 2 months delay, that's not too bad, though. Robert ============================================================================ = gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu * generic disclaimer: * "It's more fun to = = * all my opinions are * compute" = = * mine * -Kraftwerk = ============================================================================
malczews@nunki.usc.edu (Frank Malczewski) (02/13/90)
> Other features of Phil and Dave's Excellent CD ... will be available > through APDA as soon as we can "productize" them. > ... > When the tools on Phil and Dave's Excellent CD are ready for such > distribution, they will be made available as soon as possible through APDA. > > Rick Fleischman Am I interpreting this correctly to mean that Apple's policy will be to sell each of the items on P&D's E CD individually via APDA for the non-developers and non-associates among us, and to make the CD available only to developers and associates? Or does this mean that P&D's E CD will be made available via APDA in due time? -- Frank Malczewski (malczews@nunki.usc.edu) (fdm@wlv.imsd.contel.com)
mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (02/14/90)
In article <8074@chaph.usc.edu> malczews@nunki.usc.edu (Frank Malczewski) writes: > >Am I interpreting this correctly to mean that Apple's policy will be to sell >each of the items on P&D's E CD individually via APDA for the non-developers >and non-associates among us, and to make the CD available only to developers >and associates? Or does this mean that P&D's E CD will be made available >via APDA in due time? > Apple does not yet have a policy in place on this (it is being decided at the "appropriate" levels. You should expect to see a disc very similar to P & D available through APDA; however, that disc will not contain everything that the Partners and Associates get, since there are some issues with some of the material being made available to the general public. What Rick posted basically pointed out that many of the things currently on P & D are also available from APDA right now, but separately. -- Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
bjb@pyramid.com (Bruce Beare) (02/14/90)
In article <6635@internal.Apple.COM> rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) writes: > From: rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.programmer > Subject: Re: Phil & Dave, where are you? All is forgiven: come home! > Summary: Info about availability through APDA > Message-ID: <6635@internal.Apple.COM> > Date: 12 Feb 90 20:36:55 GMT > References: <7497@tank.uchicago.edu> <7202@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <38436@apple.Apple.COM> <46056@wlbr.IMSD.CONTEL.COM> <38493@apple.Apple.COM> <10159@hoptoad.uucp> <38555@apple.Apple.COM> > Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA > Lines: 28 > Xref: pyramid comp.sys.apple:23177 comp.sys.mac:52414 comp.sys.mac.programmer:12937 > > We have seen a lot of postings on netnews, and we have received a lot of > calls at APDA, requesting that Phil and Dave's Excellent CD be made > available through APDA. Hopefully the following will answer any questions > you have about this: > > Phil and Dave's Excellent CD is restricted to Apple Partners and Associates > due to the very preliminary nature of some of the materials contained on the > CD-ROM. We want to be assured that those who receive these pre-pre-release > code samples and tools have access to Apple Developer Technical Support. > Please be assured that all the tools and references on Phil and Dave's > Excellent CD that are considered robust enough for general distribution > do go through APDA as soon as they have been tested. Many items on Phil > and Dave's Excellent CD are already sold through APDA, including Macintosh > and Apple II sample code, system software, and the technical notes HyperCard > stack. Other features of Phil and Dave's Excellent CD, including > SpInside Mac and international versions of HyperCard, will be available > through APDA as soon as we can "productize" them. > > We appreciate your interest in these products. Our goal at APDA is still > to give Apple's development products the widest possible distribution. > When the tools on Phil and Dave's Excellent CD are ready for such > distribution, they will be made available as soon as possible through APDA. > > Rick Fleischman > Developer Channels/APDA > Apple Computer, Inc. > e-mail: rickf@apple.com > AppleLink: FLEISCHMAN@applelink.apple.com This sounds like corporate bull to me. Not everyone who develops Mac code can afford to be a partner/associate -- or will even be accepted into the program. The Excellent CD DOES NOT NEED TO BE PRODUCTIZED for the APDA audience. People who would order it: + have a CD player + intend to develop code + understand about developer tools + are not your normal office automation user By 'productizing' the pieces, APDA will + raise the price! Each piece will probably cost at least $20. The ENTIRE CD could be sold for that same $20. I'd bet that if every individual piece of the CD was sold on separate floppies, it would cost upwards of $1000 to get them all! + delay the distribution -- by months! + not distribute many of the goodies! A bunch of stuff in there will never be distributed by APDA -- they will decide that either there is a commertial product that does the job, or that the tool is not important enough! This corporate PR slop about 'pre-pre-release' and 'very preliminary' sounds a lot like APPLE trying to protect me from myself. Come on! The community of people who want the CD don't need to be protected in this way! Bruce Beare bjb@pyramid.com [ Coverall disclaimer: My opinions are not even my own. ]
cwilson@NISC.SRI.COM (Chan Wilson) (02/15/90)
References: <7497@tank.uchicago.edu> <7202@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <38436@apple.Apple.COM> <46056@wlbr.IMSD.CONTEL.COM> <38493@apple.Apple.COM> <10159@hoptoad.uucp> <38555@apple.Apple.COM> <6635@internal.Apple.COM> <8074@chaph.usc.edu> <38597@apple.A
sysop@pro-generic.cts.com (Matthew Montano) (02/16/90)
In-Reply-To: message from rickf@Apple.COM > comments on how Phil & Daves CD is not appropriate for APDA members, but > rather only Partners and Associates.. EXCUSE ME? Why should developers producing commerical software products (usually implying high-quality bug-free products but not neccessarily) be allowed to develop software with buggy development tools? They cannot afford the time required to work around a buggy developement system and report the bugs to Apple. Why can't apple rely on large installed base of "hackers"... some members of APDA who cannot afford the Partners or Associates programs (or can't become a member because of country of residence)... but who have a resonable amount of leisure time and quite a bit of expertise. I would rather have the Andy Nicholas's of this world reporting the bugs correctly to Apple on his limited time rather than wait several months more for an Accolade product as the Accolade employee spends months debugging Apple's software. If the tools that are on P&D's CD and the like are not buggy, then why are they not available to the developers of software that have made a dent into the //gs software market... those that have impressed us that haven't come from the major developers.. i.e the Brian Greenstone's of this world. If the tools are buggy, rely on a large installed base of intelligent programming gurus to correct them and report them... i.e get them to a larger user base without charging them $600+ for the priveledge. If the tools aren't buggy, still get them to the developer who HAS made a difference in //gs software, because he is the one who is going to sell //gs's by providing innovative software in a non-pressured developement environment, void of lost-in-the-crowd environment of a large developer who actually can afford these tools. Maybe I am just weird.. UUCP: crash!pro-generic!sysop ARPA: crash!pro-generic!sysop@nosc.mil INET: sysop@pro-generic.cts.com
cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Alfter) (02/17/90)
In article <10755.infoapple.net@pro-generic> sysop@pro-generic.cts.com (Matthew Montano) writes: >Maybe I am just weird.. You're not. Apple Marketing and APDA were weird by thinking people would spend megabucks for development stuff when a $50 assembler has all you need to write stuff for the II (classic IIs, anyway). We don't have the money that the Mac folks apparently have. I got into APDA thinking they'd have some great deals on nifty programming tools, but it was a grade-A letdown. My APDA membership expires in 12 days. Anybody else out there going to let his membership expire? Scott Alfter------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet: cs122aw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _/_ Apple IIe: the power to be your best! alfter@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu/ v \ saa33413@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ( ( A keyboard--how quaint! Bitnet: free0066@uiucvmd.bitnet \_^_/ --M. Scott, STIV