buyse@convexe.UUCP (02/26/88)
I wouldn't bank any bucks behind that quote by Jobs. He hasn't done
anything with Apple since his departure a few years ago. I doubt that
the Mac II was a short-run project, also.
It is also unrealistic to preview a machine to a host of developers,
reviewers, et cetera and then go back and make significant design
revisions. You simply kill yourself on delays and loss of revenue due
to the delay in production, shipment, and sales.
I prefer the incremental and evolutionary pattern of new product followed
by incremental improvements. Since I do not own a GS, I can not say for
sure what possible drawbacks it currently has. However, I would say that
18 months is not too short a time for a revision to be released (or at
least planned).
But I seriously doubt that the speed issue would be resolved at this
point if in fact a "GS+" were to be released. I think that a higher-end
product spinoff would be the only outlet for a souped up GS right now,
and I think it is too soon for THAT.
Or not.
-Russell Buyse.
UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!convex!buysesector@pro-exchange.cts.COM (Roby Sherman) (02/27/88)
Friends and I have discussed features the GS to truly fit the title of being the next generation Apple II.. * 128K sound DOC ram * Graphics co-processor for Sprites and/or blitter modes. * 320 X 200 - 32 and 4096 colors per scanline * 640 X 400 - 16, 32, and 4096 colors per scanline. Let's face it, using the 65816 to draw images is too slow and too disgusting to watch. Roby Sherman UUCP: [ ihnp4 cbosgd nosc ] !crash!pnet01!pro-sol!pro-exchange!sector ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-exchange!sector@nosc INET: sector@pro-exchange.cts.com
sector@pro-exchange.cts.COM (Roby Sherman) (02/28/88)
The GS is a great machine, to those of us who have owned Apples all of our lives. But let's face it, in today's marketplace, the IIgs is too overpriced for it's limited ability.. Running the other ][,// software is a great idea, but I'd like to see an Apple II that started from scratch.. I'd like to see an Apple II that says "F**K the compatibility!" If you got rid of all those //e routines in the GS, it would be so much faster. Right now, the GS has to check to see what screen mode it's in, is it in normal or fast, this and that.. That is slowing it down! Plus, the tools need to be optomized big time! Watching the Finder work on the IIgs is like pulling teeth! It is soooo slow! Now, regarding the Graphics Co-Processors, I COULD live without them, if Apple at least developed an "Animation" toolset that was extremely fast.. Perhaps it would turn off a bunch of interrupts, draw an object, and then turn them back on again.. Right now, the only way to get fast animation on the IIgs, quite honestly is to not use the quickdraw II tools! Winter and World Games, for example, are extremely fast and smooth, because they do not use the Quickdraw II tools! Roby Sherman UUCP: [ ihnp4 cbosgd nosc ] !crash!pnet01!pro-sol!pro-exchange!sector ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-exchange!sector@nosc INET: sector@pro-exchange.cts.com "Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?" -- Mr. Spock
dnelson@pro-exchange.cts.COM (Dru Nelson) (03/03/88)
Some of the features brough up are excellent choices and they should have been on the first GS. There are a few other things that I would like to see, though. I would like to see a disk controller that would allow the ][ to use IBM disk drives. IF its done right, the disk controller chip would allow the processor to do other things. The last, but most important is a price. The GS (ofwhich I am no longer a proud owner of) should only cost $768 for the CPU , 512k, 3.5, and a monochrome monitor. Still, with a price like that the GS cannot compare to an Amiga 500 or an Atari ST. (whoever stted that the Amiga was sin was a little off, its a saviour!) UUCP: [ ihnp4 cbosgd nosc ] !crash!pnet01!pro-sol!pro-exchange!dnelson ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-exchange!dnelson@nosc INET: dnelson@pro-exchange.cts.com
ralphw@IUS3.IUS.CS.CMU.EDU (Ralph Hyre) (03/03/88)
In article <64800015@convexe> buyse@convexe.UUCP writes: > >I wouldn't bank any bucks behind that quote by Jobs. ... [the quote was "We're already working on a sucessor to thie [GS] machine"] The quote (from InCider) I posted (was there another?) was by Jean-Louis Galloise (sp?), a current employee of Apple. He'd be in a position to know, since I believe he's in charge of product development. I'm suprised he said it, since saying that sort of thing tends to discourage potential buyers. -- - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. Internet: ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu Phone:(412)268-{2847,3275} CMU-{BUGS,DARK} Amateur Packet Radio: N3FGW@W2XO, or c/o W3VC, CMU Radio Club, Pittsburgh, PA
bilbo@pnet02.cts.com (Bill Daggett) (03/06/88)
sector@pro-exchange.cts.COM (Roby Sherman) writes: >The GS is a great machine, to those of us who have owned Apples all of our >lives. But let's face it, in today's marketplace, the IIgs is too overpriced >for it's limited ability.. Running the other ][,// software is a great idea, >but I'd like to see an Apple II that started from scratch.. I'd like to see an >Apple II that says "F**K the compatibility!" If you got rid of all those //e >routines in the GS, it would be so much faster. Right now, the GS has to check Interesting Roby, but if you are willing to give up your old //e compatibility you could buy other existing computers today that run things faster then the //GS without waiting to see if Apple ever does it. This is precisely what I did over a year ago when the //GS came out - I said sc*w the old Apple ][ software base. There is a price you pay for it though, you don't have a huge software base like Apple and IBM have to pick from. Oh, and the hardware costs less. Bill UUCP: {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax rutgers!marque}!gryphon!pnet02!bilbo INET: bilbo@pnet02.cts.com
SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (03/06/88)
Ralph Hyre <IUS3.IUS.CS.CMU.EDU!ralphw@PT.CS.CMU.EDU> writes about GS+ >I believe he's in charge of product development. I'm suprised he said >it, since saying that sort of thing tends to discourage potential buyers. On the other hand, if Apple takes the position that the IIgs is the last in a venerable line what does that do for the sales appeal of Apple II's in general? The idea that a success will someday be marketed seems entirely consistent with the notion of "Apple II Forever." --------------------- Disclaimer: I like my opinions better than my employers anyway... (subject to change without notice; void where prohibited) ARPA: sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu Murphy A. Sewall BITNET: SEWALL@UCONNVM School of Business Admin. UUCP: ...ihnp4!psuvax1!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL University of Connecticut
ralphw@IUS3.IUS.CS.CMU.EDU (Ralph Hyre) (03/08/88)
In article <64800019@convexe> buyse@convexe.UUCP writes: > >No, I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The quote to which I referred to in >the text you snipped was (paraphrased) "We try to have extremely short >design cycles-- less than a year" (attributed to Steven Jobs by a net >user). Oh, THAT quote! I posted both articles, the Jobs quote was from a talk he gave at MIT around '85 when he was still with Apple. He mentioned that he felt that one of Apple's strengths was its ability to get a product from conception to market in relatively short times. This was probably a reflection of his Mac experience more than anything else, I don't know if he had much to do with the Mac ][. Sorry for the confusion. -- - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. Internet: ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu Phone:(412)268-{2847,3275} CMU-{BUGS,DARK} Amateur Packet Radio: N3FGW@W2XO, or c/o W3VC, CMU Radio Club, Pittsburgh, PA
LMB7421@RITVAX.BITNET (03/14/88)
To whoever was talking about 640x400 resolution on the GS+: I DON'T, repeat DON'T want interlacing on the screen.. That's why it's hard to look at the Amiga screens for (not so) long periods of time. I don't want the superb quality of the GS screen ruined by interlacing. They deliberately chose NOT to interlace the GS screen. Les Barstow LMB7421@RITVAX.BITNET ..rutgers!rochester!ritcv!ultb!lmb7421.UUCP 292 Kimball Drive Rochester, NY 14623
FFDDO@ALASKA.BITNET (03/16/88)
I guess most of the IIGS users out there just aren't happy with their machine. Gee, that's unfortunate, but I for one love my IIGS. All this talk about the IIGS+ is sending me into a depression. I just bought my machine, and now I going to have to buy something else to keep things "up to date." Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly aware of how the industry works, (always striv ing for "bigger, stronger, and faster") and I also know that no computer is perfect. Can't someone else say something nice and positive about my IIGS? Please??? Thanks (hopefully) in advance. David Oberhart <FFDDO@ALASKA>
gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (03/20/88)
In article <8803152244.aa00367@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> FFDDO@ALASKA.BITNET writes: >Can't someone else say something nice and positive about my IIGS? Please??? Okay: Its (optional) internal fan does a wonderful job of drowning out conversation, thereby protecting against eavesdroppers. Actually, I like the GS a lot and wish there were more useful software, instead of 20 different paint programs.
gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (03/21/88)
In article <8803132326.aa08076@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> LMB7421@RITVAX.BITNET writes: >I DON'T, repeat DON'T want interlacing on the screen.. That's why it's hard to >look at the Amiga screens for (not so) long periods of time. I haven't stared at Amiga screens for long and have no idea what causes the problem you have with them, but it is not interlacing per se. Your home television screen is interlaced. (So are the terminals I use all day long at work.) I would think that the ridiculously low vertical resolution would cause far more of a visual problem.
nfong@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Fong) (03/22/88)
I do not think we'll see a GS+ this year. Pray and in 89 we might see something. I think the IIgs accelerator boards will finally be released by AppleFest Boston. (And the Zip chip if we're really luck! ha!) Do people think Prodos 16 v2.0 will be released before the end of this year? Apple should integrate DiversiCache into the new system disks! The driver for the 3.5's is mucho fast and the cache is inline with the one built into the Mac. With 512K as a base config now, you got more RAM to partition. nfong@cory.Berkeley.Edu (Getting sick reading all the piracy messages..)
lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (03/23/88)
In article <7510@brl-smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: > >the problem you have with them, but it is not interlacing per se. Your >home television screen is interlaced. (So are the terminals I use all The problem appears with certain kinds of graphics. 1 pixel high horizontal lines are the worst, for example. (You can see flicker on TV if someone is wearing a checked sportscoat, for example.) The lighting, viewing distance, color, etc. all play a part. Also, some people notice flicker more than others. -- Larry Rosenstein, Object Specialist Apple Computer, Inc. 20525 Mariani Ave, MS 32E Cupertino, CA 95014 AppleLink:Rosenstein1 domain:lsr@Apple.COM UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lsr
lwv@n8emr.UUCP (Larry W. Virden) (03/25/88)
WRT the mention that some folks are more sensitive to flicker than others - I am one of those folks. And even with teh non-interlaced GS RGB monitor from Apple I have a LOT of problems both with 'flicker' - I call it flash myself - and high pitched noise/squeal from the monitor. The noise even wakes up the kids at night! -- Larry W. Virden 75046,606 (CIS) 674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg, OH 43068 (614) 864-8817 osu-cis!n8emr!lwv (UUCP) osu-cis!n8emr!lwv@PSUVAX1 (BITNET) We haven't inherited the world from our parents, but borrowed it from our children.
KAPFFER@DMZRZU71.BITNET (Matthias Kapffer) (03/26/88)
I'd like to focus your attention on an aspect which wasn't mentioned so far in
the ongoing next generation IIgs discussion: Apple should enhance the Apple II
compatiblity - that's what it is supposed to do (as stated earlier by someone
else) and I bought it for. In particular I'm thinking of the missing
*hardware* shadowing of text page 2 and the ignored color bit in black & white
hires graphics resulting in the loss of the half point shift (Mark Kriegsman's
80 col in software demo is rather unuseable on a IIgs). Addtionally should
the b/w mode be decoupled from annunciator 3 - we already have a selection for
that in the control panel; but a change in this field seems to have no chance
nowadays where this side effect has become a feature (you *do* remember the
definition of "feature" in the glossary of the Apple ][+ Reference Manual, do
you ?).
Matthias Kapffer
<KAPFFER@DMZRZU71.BITNET>
*)
PS : There is *no* compatiblity problem in expanding super hires with a 640 x
400 submode. First of all, it can be done in 32K reducing color resolution
down to 1 bit/pixel, i.e. 1 forground and 1 background color per scan line
(using a position dependend lockup sheme like the 640 mode offers
possibilities for color dithering). This could be integrated into current
modes by using the spare bit in the mode bytes of every line so vertical
resolution could be switched every line (like the 320/640 selection), i.e.
you could choose between 320 x 200, 320 x 400, 640 x 200 and 640 x 400 and any
mixture of that. As an alternative, the video image could be composed of two
display areas (with no loss of color resolution) with a linearisation done in
hardware (super hires alreay does this !). Second, one of the main tasks of
QuickDraw is to provide a device indepentend graphics interface so software
will works with different resolutions and display techniques. A proof for
that are the countless large screens for the Mac and the LaserWriter II SC,
which shows that QuickDraw can even drive a laser printer !
*: PostScript is a trademark of Adobe, Inc.henrym@pro-europa.cts.com (Henry Malmgren) (01/22/90)
In-Reply-To: message from JWANKERL@UTCVM.BITNET >The January/February issue of GS+ has a review of the Programmer's Online >other stuff deleted..... What is GS+, and where can I suscribe? UUCP: crash!pro-europa!henrym ARPA: crash!pro-europa!henrym@nosc.mil INET: henrym@pro-europa.cts.com America Online Dalamar11
TSEMM@ALASKA.BITNET ("Ed 'Apple Guru' Moore") (02/19/90)
So..my box always says that....