bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) (02/10/90)
I've been using Medins Kermit for a few years now and have been very impressed with the vt100 emulation. Earlier this week I had the opportunity to use a real vt100 terminal. Now I realize that a lot of this is due to having used Kermit for so long but I actually prefer vt100 emulation from my //c to the real thing. How do you get someone nominated for a Nobel? If I ever get rich from computers I'll have to find out what kind of car Ted likes. ( maybe a ferrari?, I can't spell the other kinds). Bob Church att!oucsace!bchurch ******************************************************************** * * * bob church att!oucsace!bchurch * * * * If economics isn't an "exact" science why do computers crash * * so much more often than the stock market? * * bc * ********************************************************************
jetzer@studsys.mu.edu (Mike Jetzer) (02/19/90)
In article <1108@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes: >I've been using Medins Kermit for a few years now and have been very >impressed with the vt100 emulation. Earlier this week I had the opportunity >to use a real vt100 terminal. Now I realize that a lot of this is due to >having used Kermit for so long but I actually prefer vt100 emulation from >my //c to the real thing. My main concern with Kermit's emulation is that it doesn't implement the vt100 "slide the rest of the line over" command (sorry, don't know what it's really called). When I'm using Kermit and vi, if I insert text in the middle of a line, what I type goes right over what's there, and I have to do a screen redraw to get the screen to reflect the true state of affairs. I prefer Z-Link. It has its own quirks (and probably more of them), but I run into them far less frequently than with Kermit. P.S. Hope I don't start another flame war re: term programs. -- Mike Jetzer "Hack first, ask questions later."
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (02/20/90)
In article <950@studsys.mu.edu> jetzer@studsys.UUCP (Mike Jetzer) writes:
-My main concern with Kermit's emulation is that it doesn't implement
-the vt100 "slide the rest of the line over" command (sorry, don't know
-what it's really called).
It's known as "insert character" and a genuine VT100 doesn't support it
either. It appeared in DEC terminals first with the VT102.
-When I'm using Kermit and vi, if I insert text
-in the middle of a line, what I type goes right over what's there, and
-I have to do a screen redraw to get the screen to reflect the true
-state of affairs.
I would say that's a bug in your termcap (or terminfo) description.medin@cod.NOSC.MIL (Ted Medin) (02/21/90)
In article <1108@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes: >I've been using Medins Kermit for a few years now and have been very >impressed with the vt100 emulation. Earlier this week I had the opportunity >to use a real vt100 terminal. Now I realize that a lot of this is due to >having used Kermit for so long but I actually prefer vt100 emulation from >my //c to the real thing. How do you get someone nominated for a Nobel? >If I ever get rich from computers I'll have to find out what kind of car >Ted likes. ( maybe a ferrari?, I can't spell the other kinds). >Bob Church Well the praise is appreciated but remember there were several people that worked on kermit-65 before we got ahold of it. And there were a lot of people that helped by testing, comments & constructive critisizm (some speller hi hi). Not everyone got what they suggested but i suspect those with //e+ or better machines are happier. Yes i think in decimal also but its so easy to display in hex. :-) :-) So all in all i think we should consider this a net project & i hope a sucessful one at that. Now about that car can you spell caravan :-)
medin@cod.NOSC.MIL (Ted Medin) (02/22/90)
In article <950@studsys.mu.edu> jetzer@studsys.UUCP (Mike Jetzer) writes: >My main concern with Kermit's emulation is that it doesn't implement >the vt100 "slide the rest of the line over" command (sorry, don't know >what it's really called). When I'm using Kermit and vi, if I insert text >in the middle of a line, what I type goes right over what's there, and >I have to do a screen redraw to get the screen to reflect the true >state of affairs. Interesting i just ran 3.86 on a //e+ hosted by bsd 4.3 unix. Tried the vi editor (prefer jove, it does windows :-) ) and had no problems doing inserts without your problem. Does your host know you are a vt100? What kind of a host are you talking to? 73, ted n6trf
tbopp@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Tom Bopp) (02/22/90)
In article <1794@cod.NOSC.MIL> medin@cod.nosc.mil.UUCP (Ted Medin) writes: >In article <950@studsys.mu.edu> jetzer@studsys.UUCP (Mike Jetzer) writes: >>My main concern with Kermit's emulation is that it doesn't implement >>the vt100 "slide the rest of the line over" command (sorry, don't know >>what it's really called). When I'm using Kermit and vi, if I insert text >>in the middle of a line, what I type goes right over what's there, and >>I have to do a screen redraw to get the screen to reflect the true >>state of affairs. > > Interesting i just ran 3.86 on a //e+ hosted by bsd 4.3 unix. Tried the >vi editor (prefer jove, it does windows :-) ) and had no problems doing >inserts without your problem. Does your host know you are a vt100? What >kind of a host are you talking to? >73, ted >n6trf I just wonder if the problem here is vi. Vi is pretty smart, and at some installations will automatically start up in a "noredraw" mode if you have a low baud rate. This makes it look like the "slide the rest of the line over" isn't working. It isn't -- on purpose. Check the status of vi with :set all and look at the status of the "redraw" and the "slowopen" switches. This is all described in part 6, Special Topics, of the document An Introduction to Display Editing with Vi, by Bill Joy and Mark Horton. Talk to your local guru... tbopp
lmb7421@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Les Barstow: Phoenix) (02/24/90)
On a similar topic, could the next release of Kermit include an option of wether or not we want file name character substitution? I can see the ProDOS version translating non-ProDOS characters to those in the limited ProDOS set, but I like having my filenames intact if they're legal (ie, I don't like Kermit replacing the second and later periods with X's). Could we make it an option? Les Barstow -- Les Barstow |RIT - A citadel of gleaming brick towering over a snowy swamp SunSinger |Money - That which pays the bills. A dream never remembered. Phoenix rising...+------------------------------------------------------------- LMB7421@ritvax.bitnet | lmb7421@ultb.isc.rit.edu |...rochester!rit!ultb!lmb7421
dkl@pro-europa.cts.com (David Leikam) (02/24/90)
In-Reply-To: message from jetzer@studsys.mu.edu
re, well, the subject: Kermit emulations and VT100 emulations.
(So the first is an oxymoron. So sue me.)
The thing is this: The current production model is the VT-300 series. Yep.
We've already passed the VT-200 into history. Yet most terminal programs are
still doing a stumblebum job of emulating the 100. Somebody must tell me why
this is, some day...
But anyway, the point is not the Kermit protocol, in the first place. Kermit
is in the second place. That is, the desiderata is "Good VT100 emulation with
Kermit", not "Good Kermit with vt100 emulation". Kermit386 is entirely
adequate, under those circumstances, for 98% of most purposes. The emulation
is not.
There are better emulations, but they are still marginal. Snowterm _almost_
gets there, but for the lack of 132 col support and the inability to change
fonts - but the lack of Kermit kills it.
Why the emphasis on the emulation? Mostly because those of us who need it,
need it to talk to a DEC machine. And there ain't no substitute for a
servicable emulation, unlike those of, say, ProTerm, Microphone, or ProComm.
We need the emulation to communicate with the machine, and we need the Kermit
to move files back and forth. And the greatest of these is both of them.
(BTW, and in response to a comment, 'I preferred my emulator to a
VT100 terminal', I am unsurprised. On the other hand, VT-100's go for about
$50 these days, if you can find one of these antiques.)
----
| UUCP: [ucsd, nosc] !crash!pro-europa!dkl
| INET: dkl@pro-europa.cts.com ARPA: crash!pro-europa!dkl@nosc.mil
| "The great way is not difficult - just cease to cherish opinions"
| - The Third Zen Patriarch