SEWALL@UCONNVM.BITNET (02/09/88)
Dan Baldwin <hao!cgdra.ucar.edu!hangetsu@boulder.colorado.EDU> writes: > ...It really tics me off that >these software companies want $10-$20 for backups. It seems that they >are really making a profit twice this way. Why not charge $3.00 more >and give you at least a protected backup ? Floppys have been known to >fail, especially if you have kids. I've been lucky (so far). My daughters (ages 11 and 12) have been using an Apple for nearly five years and haven't clobbered any disks (knock on wood). Most of the software they use I can (and have) back up. What really bothers me about protected software that can't be backed up (even if a second disk is included) is that the half life of the originator is far less that the use life of the program. I have a LOT of software that is no longer advertised. Some of the firms have simply gone bankrupt (a lot of good the copy protection did them -- the reason I can't back up some programs is they never sold well enough to make a parm list -- Jennifer of the Prairie for instance); others have been bought out (by whom isn't always known). In some cases (Sir Tech's Police Artist for example -- which I can backup) the company exists but no longer supports the product (I learned that at a club meeting where Sir Tech was extolling the virtue of their new software). The only reasonable solution seems to be to resist buying anything copy protected, or at least check to see if the stuff can be backed up before ordering. --------------------- Disclaimer: My employer often is appalled by my opinions, and my facts may be only vaguely right <slippery when wet>. ARPA: sewall%uconnvm.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu Murphy A. Sewall BITNET: SEWALL@UCONNVM School of Business Admin. UUCP: ...ihnp4!psuvax1!UCONNVM.BITNET!SEWALL University of Connecticut
syslep@pro-lep.cts.com (System Leprechaun) (06/28/89)
Network Comment to message from pnet01!crash!pro-lep.cts.com!orcus > 2] Yes, I am "suggesting" that people will want a copy of Xenocide, because > to be quite honest, it's the best damn game that has ever been made for > the IIgs. I know the author, I've seen a demo, and he's probably right. When released, it will be the best damn game. The name, however, sucks. ________________________________________________________________________ / / / /| | Don Patrick |ProLine: syslep@pro-lep| Source: ST9365 | | | 9100 Circle Drive | 512-288-2114 | GEnie: DONPATRICK | | | Austin TX 78736-7911 | AppleLink: D Patrick | CIS: 72355,1717 | | |_______________________________________________________________________|/
info-apple-request@SMOKE.BRL.MIL (06/29/89)
Even the Mac market has mostly given up on Key disks. Most of the early companies that used them (Hayden) are long gone. Don't even ask about 'ticket' disks. > 3] The scheme so far would not annoy buyers, because it can be copied and > put onto a hard drive, it simply requires a key disk ... This presumes too much about your potential users. It is a hassle when the key disk is trashed independently of the software. How will your users get a new one? Will you provide free replacement key disks for registered users? What disk format(s) will you provide the software and key disks on? I use a UniDisk 3.5 (a Apple-supported product which won't work for any copy protection designed for the 'dumb' 3.5 Drives.) and 5.25 drives interchangeably, and truly important data is backed up on both formats to survive failure of a single drive. You key disk presumably can't be backed up, violating the rights of users to make archival copies. Without the key disk, the softare is useless. Why not use a printed code book system, so that your key's are not stored on something as volatile as magnetic media? Or add enough value to the 'props' (manual) so that they're needed for the game; then make these hard to copy. Borland has sucessfully done this. -- - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. Internet: ralphw@{ius{3,2,1}.,}cs.cmu.edu Phone:(412) CMU-BUGS Amateur Packet Radio: N3FGW@W2XO, or c/o W3VC, CMU Radio Club, Pittsburgh, PA "You can do what you want with my computer, but leave me alone!8-)"
lbotez@pro-sol.cts.com (Lynda Botez) (07/02/89)
>Why not use a printed code book system, so that your key's are not stored >on something as volatile as magnetic media? Or add enough value to the >'props' (manual) so that they're needed for the game; then make these hard >to copy. Ugh. Some more obnoxious protection schemes... irritating to the real purchasers. Don't you realize that any code system can be uploaded along with the disk? There's nothing more annoying than to have to look on Page 31, third paragraph and type in the "third word from the right"... Gimme a break! If any of this nonsense has to be done, I prefer the Interplay attempt... where they ask you right up front "Did you buy a copy of this program?" If you answer "no"... you just get a demo. Most pirates don't like this. Lynda
lhaider@pro-sol.cts.com (Lawrence Haider) (07/02/89)
Network Comment: to #8509 by pnet01!crash!smoke.brl.mil!info-apple-request
"In my opinion" I agree with Ralph on the _Keydisk_ Issue. It is a pain. But
I don't agree that printed code books are the answer. I for one would have a
much harder time looking for a scrap of paper than finding a Keydisk, and
codewheels can be printed and sent as a TXT file anyway. The 'props' idea "I
Feel" also smells of something long rotting. Isn't that why Apple came up
with the "standard" user interface. So they wouldn't be spending all of their
(their meaning users) time with the nose in the stinking manual?!? I am
forced to do this at work with a damn MS-DOS machine. Why do you think I
bought an Apple! Why do you think most apple owners bought an apple? So they
wouldn't have to even pick a manual if they wanted to play with a program long
enough (old II programs not withstanding)! Far be it from me to pass
judgement, but copy protection sucks! It always has, and probably will for a
long time to come.
Please, IF you MUST copy protect, KEEP IT SIMPLE. The only people
copy protection harms are the users that bought the program. The best Idea
I've seen in a long time is a program that asks for a password that YOU have
previously decided on, and asks for you to look up the password from the
manual only the first time you use it. I know it isn't a great answer, but
it keeps honest people honest; and doesn't put them through hell just to use a
program they paid for!
Laer Haiderrdlanctot@instr.okanagan.bc.ca (Ryan Lanctot) (07/05/89)
One way to get people to stop pirating your software is to provide help to them. What I mean is, somebody wants to take out what they percieve as an irritating feature (ie a noise, title screen, etc.). So what do they do? They turn to a magazine like Computist for help. In the process of getting rid of the noise/title/whatever, they break your copy protection. Not good for you. So what you do is, if someone phones you, whatever, say to them ok, go to track ... and this byte and NOP it. Chances are that if you do this, the casual copiers won't bother breaking your protection. That just leaves you with the Hardcore Pirating group to deal with and you can take care of them by joining the S.P.A. I don't know, it seems to make sense to me. Most people won't bother to mess with your program it the protection doesn't detract from the speed of loading, etc. Besides, it doesn't makes sense to copy a great program at any time because you don't get the stuff that comes along with it loke maps, etc. Later. Ryan Lanctot <rdlanctot@instr.okanagan.bc.ca> or try <rdlanctot@instr.okanagan.bcc.cdn>
a527@mindlink.UUCP (Dave Oliver) (10/12/89)
Hiya Apple Users! I want a Copy Protection Program in the Apple machine or assembly language (in Integer BASIC mini-assembler format or Merlin Pro). Please reply A.S.A.P. ! If you can.. Put it in Apple text file format (In Dos 3.3 HIGH ASCII.) Thanks.... Dave Oliver
ART100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Andy Tefft 862-6728", 814) (10/13/89)
>I want a Copy Protection Program in the Apple machine or assembly language...
What is a Copy Protection Program, pray tell? One that copy protects?
or one that undoes protection? Or a program that protects your copies
of copy protected software? :-)alank@pro-beagle.cts.com (Alan Krause) (10/14/89)
Well, to whoever wanted to get a copy protection program... thats asking a
little much.. Because if there was a program which generated copy protection
schemes, these protection schemes would be obsolete fairly quik, since one
only had to page thru the source code and find out what the protection was,
what it was supposed to do, and where it was located. It then becomes a
simple matter to de-protect all programs protected with it.
However, it is possible to edit the configuartion of youur disk to your own
personal tastes. 1st of all, is it a Dos 3.3 Disk or a ProDos Disk???
ProDos Disks are a bit harder to protect than Dos disks are. But, there are
things you can always do, like change the address header bytes, change the
catalog track, move the vtoc, all kinds of neet stuff.... I would suggest
reading beneath apple dos and if you can find it, beneath apple prodos...
Thats the only way you will be able to learn about protection schemes and how
to make them/beat them...
Alancs225202@umbc5.umbc.edu (Sang J. Moon) (10/16/89)
In article <8910132118.AA14175@trout.nosc.mil> alank@pro-beagle.cts.com (Alan Krause) writes:
[stuff]
If you want to know everything about copy protection and how to break them, get
or suscribe to a magazine called the Computist. It advertises in any copy of
Nibble Magazine. In one of their back issues, they have a program which allows
you to modify the RWTS of DOS based on a password only you know, and even
bit copiers wouldn't be able to copy your modified diskette. They also have a
program that comes with the magazine which allows you to modify the prologue,
epilogue, and some other bytes on a diskette so that only an accomplished
hacker could break into your diskette. I love the magazine because it allows
me to back up all the $50+ programs I have. I don't have to worry about
accidentally messing up my only copy of an expensive program again.
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Sang J. Moon "Bwahahahahaha" -JLIchines@pro-europa.cts.com (Clifford Hines) (10/19/89)
Comment to message from: ART100@psuvm.psu.edu (Andy Tefft (814) 862-6728) UUCP: crash!pro-europa!chines ARPA: crash!pro-europa!chines@nosc.mil INET: chines@pro-europa.cts.com
ccw@nvuxr.UUCP (christopher wood) (03/01/90)
In article <15800090@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> cs122dc@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU writes: [ justification for no copy protection trimmed ] >I have to agree with you, to some extent not allowing people to place >programs on hard drives is a pain, but you have to look at it from a >marketing standpoint. If you don't protect the program, SOMEONE is going >to copy it (and not just for the sake of having a back-up either). For >every copy of AppleWorks out there that was sold legitimately, how many >illegal copies do you think there are? (and at around $200 a crack, that's >a lot of profit loss). Aside from that, I don't see where copy protection >truly affects a program's overall performance, except during disk activity. Are you playing devil's advocate, or what? Appleworks is not copy protected. I started with a pirated version. After a month of doing useful, productive work with it (with no manual! Ease of use!) I was so impressed that I bought the program. Ans shelled out the $50 for an upgrade (to 2.0, I think). Copy protection forces hardships on your legitimate customers to prevent unscrupulous people from using a program without paying for it. Unscrupulous people probably have copy ][+, so copy protection doesn't do any good, and pisses off your paying customers. Program performance is many things. Even "kley disk" programs are enough of a hassle that many users feel that they don't perform. >As for better games and such... the more the machine has to deal with, the [trimmed] > Randy Vose > cs122dc@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu >"Remember: Where ever you go, there you are..." -- Chris Wood Bellcore ...!bellcore!nvuxr!ccw or nvuxr!ccw@bellcore.bellcore.com