wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (02/28/90)
I'm all for the idea of a ROM 04 machine, but I have one thing I want to scream at the top of my lungs at all listening Apple Employees and that is: UPGRADE PATH! You heard me. william gulstad
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (02/28/90)
wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >I'm all for the idea of a ROM 04 machine, but I have one thing I >want to scream at the top of my lungs at all listening Apple >Employees and that is: >UPGRADE PATH! >You heard me. I heard you. I'm not an employee of Apple, but I ask you this: HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW IMPRACTICAL IT IS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU ASK? What's Apple going to do with you old machine? Recycle it? If you've had your GS for over a year or two I very seriously doubt you can reasonably expect any company to give you even half value on a trade in. This is the age of disposable motherboards. I don't like it either, but that's the way it is. Now Apple can either make the new computer cheap enough that you won't mind just buying the CPU on its lonesome (my preferred idea, since the GS motherboard upgrade only saved you $300 anyway), or they can piss off a lot of people by not offering an upgrade. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
cwilson@NISC.SRI.COM (Chan Wilson) (02/28/90)
In article <1990Feb28.061841.29116@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu> toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: >wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >>I'm all for the idea of a ROM 04 machine, but I have one thing I >>want to scream at the top of my lungs at all listening Apple >>Employees and that is: > >>UPGRADE PATH! > >I heard you. I'm not an employee of Apple, but I ask you this: > >HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW IMPRACTICAL IT IS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU ASK? > >This is the age of disposable motherboards. Ah. I see. Disposable motherboards. What a thought. Actually, while an upgrade path would be an interesting option, the plain, simple fact is, that it isn't worthwhile. Sure, when the GS came out, there was an upgrade path from the //e, but it cost what, $700? You can buy a new GS now for just a wee bit more. So you'll end up with two computers. Well heck, there's your multitasking. I do it all the time -- run a telcomm program on my //e, downloading files, while doing other things on my GS. 'course, I haven't quite figured out what to do with the //c+, the other //e, and the 2 ][+s in the closet.... howbout parallel processing? ;-) --Chan ................ Chan Wilson -- cwilson@nisc.sri.com <or> radius!cwilson@apple.com Janitor/Architect of comp.binaries.apple2 archive on wuarchive.wustl.edu I don't speak for SRI, someone else does. ................
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (03/01/90)
In article <1990Feb28.061841.29116@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu> toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: >wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>UPGRADE PATH! > >HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW IMPRACTICAL IT IS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU ASK? > >What's Apple going to do with you old machine? Recycle it? He didn't say that he wanted Apple to take the old machine and eat it. He just said he wanted an upgrad path (vs buying a new one). >If you've had your GS for over a year or two I very seriously doubt you can >reasonably expect any company to give you even half value on a trade in. A new //gs motherboard is $200 (believe me, I know). A new //gs is a whole bunch more. I'll keep the old motherboard if they don't want it... >Todd Whitesel >toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ...!ucbvax!cory!fadden
lbotez@pro-sol.cts.com (Lynda Botez) (03/01/90)
In-Reply-To: message from toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu >>UPGRADE PATH. >>You heard me. >I heard you. I am not an employee of Apple, but I ask you this: >HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW IMPRACTICAL IT IS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU ASK? >What's Apple going to do with your old machine? Recycle it? [stuff >deleted] This is the age of disposable motherboards. Hummm. I somehow disagree with that. When you buy the CPU for the Apple IIGS, it comes with a case, a power supply, a motherboard, a keyboard and a mouse. Now with a motherboard swapout; you're just looking at the motherboard. (Let's see.. a new keyboard costs $129 give or take a few bucks, and the mouse is somewhere around the same price... at least retail list). I'm sure there are some parts that are salvagable on the old motherboard; but maybe not. If they were totally worthless, why would Apple require them returned when you have to buy a new one when yours fries? I would imagine there could be a swapout. I would expect a fairly high charge to do it, but certainly a lot less than the cost of an entirely new CPU. Also, I would suspect that a great number of the older models would not be upgraded. Many people are satisfied with the Apple IIGS the way it is now. Old motherboards could be reconditioned for service on the olders models. Lynda
lunatic@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Lunatic) (03/02/90)
In article <17420.apple.net@pro-sol> lbotez@pro-sol.cts.com (Lynda Botez) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu > >>>UPGRADE PATH. >>>You heard me. > >>I heard you. I am not an employee of Apple, but I ask you this: >>HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW IMPRACTICAL IT IS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU ASK? >>What's Apple going to do with your old machine? Recycle it? [stuff >>deleted] This is the age of disposable motherboards. > >Hummm. I somehow disagree with that. > >When you buy the CPU for the Apple IIGS, it comes with a case, a power >supply, a motherboard, a keyboard and a mouse. Now with a motherboard >swapout; you're just looking at the motherboard. (Let's see.. a new keyboard >costs $129 give or take a few bucks, and the mouse is somewhere around the >same price... at least retail list). ][f the new machines (ROM 04?) include a built-in SCSI port (hope! hope!) then you would either also need a new backplane (is the backplane on the GS separate from the rest of the case? I don't think so.) or slightly modified motherboards ala the IIe-to-IIGS upgrade, with an SCSI connector on a cable to fit in one of the punchouts. The ROM 04 machine is rumoured to come in a different, smaller case, as well, is it not? (I personally can't see how Aplle could expect to fit it in a smaller case and be able to hold a full load of peripheral cards unless they take the power supply out of the case.) >I'm sure there are some parts that are salvagable on the old motherboard; but >maybe not. If they were totally worthless, why would Apple require them >returned when you have to buy a new one when yours fries? ___ |hey don't want third parties to get ahold of Apple propriety hardware/microcode cheaply. There's a product for the Atari ST called Magic Sac (or something like that - used to be called Macartridge?) that lets an ST do hardware emulation of a Mac. All it needs is original Macintosh ROMs. Sure, there are plenty of them around, as witnessed by the availability of this product, but if Apple requires that all old ROMs be returned to them, then it's that much harder to actually find any without going out and buying a whole Macintosh. As long as you're buying a whole Mac, Apple is happy, and why pull the ROMs from it? Something similar could be done with GS ROMs, video firmware, etc, by a company such as Video Technologies (the makers of the Laser computers, who actually DID do just this and exhibited it at the first KansasFest developer's conference). Also, certain components on the motherboard are socketed, most notably the VGC (at least on early machines) and the ROMs. Old ROMs might not be too usable, but the VGCs certainly would. Then also there are tax considerations. Remember all those unsold Lisas that were bulldozed into a hole in the ground? Apple actually saved money by destroying them. >I would imagine there could be a swapout. I would expect a fairly high charge >to do it, but certainly a lot less than the cost of an entirely new CPU. > >Also, I would suspect that a great number of the older models would not be >upgraded. Many people are satisfied with the Apple IIGS the way it is now. >Old motherboards could be reconditioned for service on the olders models. ___ |hat's another use for them. What happens when an owner of a ROM 01 machine comes in for repairs that require a motherboard swapout and the ROM 01 machines are no longer being made? (Which has already happened with the release of ROM 03.) Unfortunately, Apple is not going to swap in a newer model motherboard. I can't remember the exact reason they won't give you a newer motherboard, but please take my word for it, I've checked. >Lynda -- ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________ ARPA: lunatic@uscsb.UCSC.EDU / ________/ Internet: lunatic%ucscb@ucscc.edu / ____// _ ___ _ UUCP: ...!ucscc!ucscb!lunatic / ___///__ {_} |\| /-\ | ][ {_ GEnie: L.BRUCE (Lunatic Bruce) / __________________________________________________________________/ (:
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (03/04/90)
In article <1562@darkstar.ucsc.edu> lunatic@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Lunatic) writes: > ___ > |hat's another use for them. What happens when an owner of a >ROM 01 machine comes in for repairs that require a motherboard >swapout and the ROM 01 machines are no longer being made? (Which >has already happened with the release of ROM 03.) Unfortunately, >Apple is not going to swap in a newer model motherboard. I can't >remember the exact reason they won't give you a newer motherboard, >but please take my word for it, I've checked. > The availability of service parts is mostly unrelated to CPUs in production. If you take an unenhanced IIe in to be fixed, you get an unenhanced IIe motherboard back, even though those haven't been in new CPUS in five years. -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." ============================================================================