DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET (02/20/90)
Does anybody know of any that will back up a Sider with GS/OS? PD or
Shareware preferably, but if commercial's all that's available, I'll take
it.
Bill Dickson
DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNETmattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (02/21/90)
In article <9002192053.aa16650@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: >Does anybody know of any that will back up a Sider with GS/OS? PD or >Shareware preferably, but if commercial's all that's available, I'll take >it. > > Bill Dickson The magazines lately are featuring ads for a new GS/OS-based backup program known as "Salvation", which the ads portray as a fairly nice program. (This, of course, is not a big surprise.) Does anyone have experience with it? -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." ============================================================================
rankins@zaire.crd.ge.com (raymond r rankins) (02/21/90)
In article <38813@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >In article <9002192053.aa16650@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET writes: >>Does anybody know of any that will back up a Sider with GS/OS? PD or >>Shareware preferably, but if commercial's all that's available, I'll take >>it. >> >> Bill Dickson > >The magazines lately are featuring ads for a new GS/OS-based backup program >known as "Salvation", which the ads portray as a fairly nice program. > >(This, of course, is not a big surprise.) Does anyone have experience with it? There is a demo version of the software on America Online I believe in the Utilities software library (but I can't remember exactly where I found it). I think the demo will let you do backups but it doesn't have all the frills the the full program does. I'm not really sure because I haven't tried to use the demo yet except to look at the interface and see what it had. It does look pretty good. I was planning on trying it out tonite. If there is interest, I'll post my impressions of it. Ray Ray Rankins |(518) 387-7340 (days)| INTERNET: rankins@zaire.crd.ge.com 2 Moonglow Rd. |(518) 583-3320 (eves)| COMPUSERVE: 71131,3236 Gansevoort, NY 12831| | AmericaOnline: RayRankins <insert standard disclaimer here>
JWANKERL@UTCVM.BITNET ("Josef W. Wankerl") (02/21/90)
On Tue, 20 Feb 90 20:39:57 GMT Matt Deatherage said: > >The magazines lately are featuring ads for a new GS/OS-based backup program >known as "Salvation", which the ads portray as a fairly nice program. > >(This, of course, is not a big surprise.) Does anyone have experience with it? > Yes, I've seen Salvation and it's a beauty. It's fast. Backup selected files or directories. Note that this is a file based backup - it will not do a disk image backup (I think that's what it's called). If I get enough extra $$$, I think I'm gunna buy it myself. >-- >============================================================================ >Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are >Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple >Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." >============================================================================ /**********************************************************************\ |* Joe "Gonzo" Wankerl |*| The views expressed here are *| |* BITNET => JWANKERL@UTCVM |*| not necessarily yours... *| |* |*| ...but they should be. *| \**********************************************************************/
z@pro-fishunt.cts.com (Jim Ziogas) (02/22/90)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM
Here are some comparisons of ProSel and Salvation. This was uploaded to
CompuServe by and is written by Glen Bredon.
Comparison of the ProSel-16 backup facility and Salvation.
----------------------------------------------------------
Since I am the author of ProSel-16, I am very biased, and you should keep
that in mind. Because of that, I have attempted to limit things to factual
items in this report. Also, I am not going to discuss the minor features
of either program since that would be hard to do without biased value
judgments. Of course, the question of what features are major or minor is
also a value judgement, but there is no escaping that.
The following benchmarks were done with my regular main directory which is
slightly over 15MB in size. Timings were done with a stopwatch. In the
case of ProSel-16 the watch was started as soon as the backup item was
selected from the ProSel screen, the item being an automated backup spec
so that the backup ran from that point with no further user access. In the
case of Salvation, the watch was started when Salvation was selected and
stopped whenever user input (mouse clicks) had to be done, until the backup
began. Although Salvation allows use of macros, it is not fully automatic
in the way ProSel-16 is, and it seems to eat up at least 12 seconds for
mouse clicking to get things started, beyond the given times. All backups
are full backups of the entire volume. Times are in minutes and seconds.
Salvation (version 1.0):
Backup with verify (1)...................................31:12.....20 disks
Backup without verify....................................24:55.....20 disks
Restore (5)..............................................?
ProSel-16 (version 8.40):
Backup, error correction, no verify, graphic, dir (1,2)..26:28.....19 disks
Backup, no error corr., no verify, graphic, dir (4)......24:10.....17 disks
Backup, no error corr., verify, graphic, dir.............32:43.....17 disks
Backup, error correction, no verify, text, no dir (3)....25:05.....19 disks
Backup, no error corr., no verify, text, no dir..........22:38.....17 disks
Backup, no error corr., verify, text, no dir.............31:16.....17 disks
Restore, error correction................................25:49
Notes:
------
(1) This is the mode I would recommend using with this program.
(2) "dir" refers to the optional directory written during the backup.
Salvation requires a separate directory disk; ProSel-16 keeps a
directory on each disk, and the optional directory is for
further convenience for the user (it could be put in a database,
for example).
(3) The main difference between text and graphics modes timings in
ProSel-16 is due to the scrolling of display of files being
backed up. Salvation does not use this type of display. Although
the ProSel-16 text mode is slightly faster, I like the graphics
option and scrolling enough to suffer an extra minute or two.
(4) Error correction is the most important feature of the ProSel-16 backup
and I strongly recommend its use. Since Salvation does not have
this feature, the times for ProSel-16 without that option are listed.
(But really, use the error correction, it can save your butt.)
(5) I could not time Restore with Salvation because it gave me a
Fatal error $48 while writing the files read from backup disk 4.
This error is "volume full" but it was nowhere near full. A retry
from the beginning produced the same problem. I have no idea why
this happened and it could be a fluke. Also, I attempted to
restore to a separate volume from the one backed up but it
insisted on putting files in a folder instead of just replacing
the existing files, so I had to restore to my main volume, which
was the one backed up.
Major features Salvation ProSel-16
-------------- --------- ---------
File oriented Yes Yes
Incremental mode Yes Yes
Compound mode No Yes (6)
Error correction No Yes (7)
Compression No (8) Yes (8)
Can use two drives No (9) Yes
Can handle all system files No (10) Yes
Can erase before restore No Yes
Cost $50 + $5 P&H $60 (postpaid)
More notes:
-----------
(6) Compound incremental mode (sometimes called differential) is a
way of doing incremental backups that requires only one set of
backup disks instead of a set for each day until the next full
backup.
(7) Error correction obviates the need for verification, but it is
much more than that. Disks often go bad long after they have
been written and verified. Error correction is an advanced
feature that will, with high probability of success, allow
100% correct restoration from damaged disks.
(8) The compression in ProSel-16 is mainly for sparse files which,
if expanded, could span up to 21 3.5" disks for a simple 5 block
file. These files are rare but they do exist and some programs
use them for data files. It is for that reason that earlier
versions of the ProSel-16 backup had restrictions on sparse
files, something that is no longer needed. Salvation fully
expands sparse files, and thus has the same problem that the
original version of the ProSel-16 backup had with them.
(9) Salvation can use any drive, but you cannot put backup disks
in two drives at the same time since the program will always
insist on writing to the first one in the chain. The advantage
of being able to write to two such drives, as ProSel-16 can, is
that you can be away longer before having to replace the disks.
(10) Not on the boot disk, but it could be done if you boot from a
separate disk for the backup or restore.
Remarks:
--------
Timings for ProSel-16 are for formatted disks. Salvation formats as
it writes and thus is faster with new disks. I believe that it does
not verify the formatting (I could be wrong) so that verification
after the write is more indicatedthan it is with ProSel-16.
If you want to repeat the timing tests, make sure you do not time
ProSel-16 using the same disks that were previously used to time
Salvation. Salvation does a format when it writes and I think it is
less efficient to read and write the disks it formats than for a
disk formatted in the standard manner. (I did tests that indicate
that, but not in a very scientific manner, so you can dismiss this
statement if you like.) In any case, the last disk would not be
completely formatted, and ProSel-16 would not like that much.
Tests were done with formatted disks having the names used by each
program. Thus neither program required any input from the user
during backup.rmichel@pro-grouch.cts.com (Russel Michel) (02/22/90)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM
Since the topic of backup programs has come up several times lately, and
people have mentioned the new kid on the block, Salvation, I thought I'd
post a comparison of the two programs available that can handle all GSOS
files (specifically meaning the capability of handling forked files). It
was written by Glen Bredon of ProSel fame, so it's definately biased, as
Glen freely admits. It does, however, have some good info for those who
might be considering one of these two (ProSel-16 & Salvation). Here it
is:
Comparison of the ProSel-16 backup facility and Salvation.
----------------------------------------------------------
Since I am the author of ProSel-16, I am very biased, and you should keep
that in mind. Because of that, I have attempted to limit things to factual
items in this report. Also, I am not going to discuss the minor features
of either program since that would be hard to do without biased value
judgments. Of course, the question of what features are major or minor is
also a value judgement, but there is no escaping that.
The following benchmarks were done with my regular main directory which is
slightly over 15MB in size. Timings were done with a stopwatch. In the
case of ProSel-16 the watch was started as soon as the backup item was
selected from the ProSel screen, the item being an automated backup spec
so that the backup ran from that point with no further user access. In the
case of Salvation, the watch was started when Salvation was selected and
stopped whenever user input (mouse clicks) had to be done, until the backup
began. Although Salvation allows use of macros, it is not fully automatic
in the way ProSel-16 is, and it seems to eat up at least 12 seconds for
mouse clicking to get things started, beyond the given times. All backups
are full backups of the entire volume. Times are in minutes and seconds.
Salvation (version 1.0):
Backup with verify (1)...................................31:12.....20 disks
Backup without verify....................................24:55.....20 disks
Restore (5)..............................................?
ProSel-16 (version 8.40):
Backup, error correction, no verify, graphic, dir (1,2)..26:28.....19 disks
Backup, no error corr., no verify, graphic, dir (4)......24:10.....17 disks
Backup, no error corr., verify, graphic, dir.............32:43.....17 disks
Backup, error correction, no verify, text, no dir (3)....25:05.....19 disks
Backup, no error corr., no verify, text, no dir..........22:38.....17 disks
Backup, no error corr., verify, text, no dir.............31:16.....17 disks
Restore, error correction................................25:49
Notes:
------
(1) This is the mode I would recommend using with this program.
(2) "dir" refers to the optional directory written during the backup.
Salvation requires a separate directory disk; ProSel-16 keeps a
directory on each disk, and the optional directory is for
further convenience for the user (it could be put in a database,
for example).
(3) The main difference between text and graphics modes timings in
ProSel-16 is due to the scrolling of display of files being
backed up. Salvation does not use this type of display. Although
the ProSel-16 text mode is slightly faster, I like the graphics
option and scrolling enough to suffer an extra minute or two.
(4) Error correction is the most important feature of the ProSel-16 backup
and I strongly recommend its use. Since Salvation does not have
this feature, the times for ProSel-16 without that option are listed.
(But really, use the error correction, it can save your butt.)
(5) I could not time Restore with Salvation because it gave me a
Fatal error $48 while writing the files read from backup disk 4.
This error is "volume full" but it was nowhere near full. A retry
from the beginning produced the same problem. I have no idea why
this happened and it could be a fluke. Also, I attempted to
restore to a separate volume from the one backed up but it
insisted on putting files in a folder instead of just replacing
the existing files, so I had to restore to my main volume, which
was the one backed up.
Major features Salvation ProSel-16
-------------- --------- ---------
File oriented Yes Yes
Incremental mode Yes Yes
Compound mode No Yes (6)
Error correction No Yes (7)
Compression No (8) Yes (8)
Can use two drives No (9) Yes
Can handle all system files No (10) Yes
Can erase before restore No Yes
Cost $50 + $5 P&H $60 (postpaid)
More notes:
-----------
(6) Compound incremental mode (sometimes called differential) is a
way of doing incremental backups that requires only one set of
backup disks instead of a set for each day until the next full
backup.
(7) Error correction obviates the need for verification, but it is
much more than that. Disks often go bad long after they have
been written and verified. Error correction is an advanced
feature that will, with high probability of success, allow
100% correct restoration from damaged disks.
(8) The compression in ProSel-16 is mainly for sparse files which,
if expanded, could span up to 21 3.5" disks for a simple 5 block
file. These files are rare but they do exist and some programs
use them for data files. It is for that reason that earlier
versions of the ProSel-16 backup had restrictions on sparse
files, something that is no longer needed. Salvation fully
expands sparse files, and thus has the same problem that the
original version of the ProSel-16 backup had with them.
(9) Salvation can use any drive, but you cannot put backup disks
in two drives at the same time since the program will always
insist on writing to the first one in the chain. The advantage
of being able to write to two such drives, as ProSel-16 can, is
that you can be away longer before having to replace the disks.
(10) Not on the boot disk, but it could be done if you boot from a
separate disk for the backup or restore.
Remarks:
--------
Timings for ProSel-16 are for formatted disks. Salvation formats as
it writes and thus is faster with new disks. I believe that it does
not verify the formatting (I could be wrong) so that verification
after the write is more indicated than it is with ProSel-16.
If you want to repeat the timing tests, make sure you do not time
ProSel-16 using the same disks that were previously used to time
Salvation. Salvation does a format when it writes and I think it is
less efficient to read and write the disks it formats than for a
disk formatted in the standard manner. (I did tests that indicate
that, but not in a very scientific manner, so you can dismiss this
statement if you like.) In any case, the last disk would not be
completely formatted, and ProSel-16 would not like that much.
Tests were done with formatted disks having the names used by each
program. Thus neither program required any input from the user
during backup.
I personally am quite happy with ProSel-16, but Salvation does seem to have
some good features...I leave further evaluation of Glen's comparison to the
individual reader.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proline: rmichel@pro-grouch GEnie: R.MICHEL2
InterNet: rmichel@pro-grouch.cts.com AO: RusselM
ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-grouch!rmichel@nosc.mil
UUCP: crash!pro-grouch!rmichel
ARPA: crash!pro-grouch!rmichel@nosc.mil
INET: rmichel@pro-grouch.cts.comdaveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com (Dave Harvey) (02/25/90)
In-Reply-To: message from DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET > Does anybody know of any that will back up a Sider with GS/OS? PD or > Shareware preferably, but if commercial's all that's available, I'll take > it. > > Bill Dickson > > DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET Glen Bredon's BACKUP is what I use. It's one of the programs that he furnishes when you buy Prosel. There's also a 16 bit version that's even better. proline: pro-novapple!daveharv | uucp: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv | Pro-novapple BBS arpa: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv@nosc.mil | 300/1200/2400 Baud Internet: daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com | 703-671-0415 | Northern Virginia Apple Users Group | P.O. Box 8211, Falls Church, VA 22041 |
paul@pro-europa.cts.com (Paul Hutmacher) (02/28/90)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM > The magazines lately are featuring ads for a new GS/OS-based backup program > known as "Salvation", which the ads portray as a fairly nice program. > > (This, of course, is not a big surprise.) Does anyone have experience with > it? There's a demo version of Salvation on GEnie as well as a text file from Glen Bredon comparing Salvation to ProSel 16. Guess which one Glen likes? Paul Hutmacher | crash!pro-europa!paul | They were calling to each P.O. Box 66046 | paul@pro-europa.cts.com |other in the meter band, their Houston, TX 77266 | 713/526-0714 3/12/24/9600 |radio voices faint but clear..
samt@pro-europa.cts.com (Sam Theis) (02/28/90)
In-Reply-To: message from DICKSON@HARTFORD.BITNET > Does anybody know of any that will back up a Sider with GS/OS? PD or > Shareware preferably, but if commercial's all that's available, I'll take > it. > > Bill Dickson ProSEL 16 provides the best currently available (IMHO) backup of GS/OS files, including forked files (files with resources), etc. There are a few other programs that are in development that show promise. ProSEL 16 is a commercial program available directly from the author, Glen Bredon, for $60. It is also available from Kingwood Micro Software, 3103 Lake Stream Dr., Kingwood, TX 77339 (713)-360-5013 for $52. ProSEL provides a suite of functions that no hard disk owner should be without. UUCP: crash!pro-europa!samt ARPA: crash!pro-europa!samt@nosc.mil INET: samt@pro-europa.cts.com
lhaider@pro-sol.cts.com (Lawrence Haider) (03/04/90)
In-Reply-To: message from samt@pro-europa.cts.com Scuse me for sounding dumb, but what the heck does "IMHO" stand for? lhaider@pro-sol.cts.com
JDA@CU.NIH.GOV ("Doug Ashbrook") (03/05/90)
> Scuse me for sounding dumb, but what the heck does "IMHO" stand for?
IMHO, it stands for "In My Humble Opinion" :-)supton@pro-novapple.cts.com (Sam Upton) (03/09/90)
In-Reply-To: message from lhaider@pro-sol.cts.com Well , I'm not too smart myself , but after seeing it used *many* times , I've come to the conclusion that it means - "In My Humble Opionion" IMHO <grin> Sam Upton proline: pro-novapple!supton UUCP: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!supton ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!supton@nosc.mil Internet: supton@pro-novapple.cts.com