KMILES@CC.USU.EDU ("KURT MILES, VAX/MICRO CONSULTANT") (03/05/90)
I will be shortly (like 2 weeks) be moving to Norman Oklahome, and as a result
of leaving school will be losin all contact with this and the other axxounts I
have.
Is there anyone out in netland that can tell me what the policis are at Univ.
Of OK about part-time student access to the University computers and the
availability of bitnet or internet accounts?
Also, are there any public access or local boards where I could continue to
receive this netgroup?
The folks on this net have been _EXTREMELY_ helpful to me when I have had
problems, and I want to say to Andy and Dave (all of them) and Matt and Scott
and everyone else who has provided a lot of expert advice and help that I truly
appreciate their help. I hope you guys don't take all the bitching from the
net personally, because if you ever get mad and leave, I think everyone would
be hurting.
I have immensely enjoyed my time in this group, and I hope to be back soon, but
just in case:
Best of everything to all of you, now and in the future.
Kurt Miles
KMILES@USU (bitnet)
KMILES@cc.usu.edu (internet)
PS.
{ uh, since I never thought ahead about this since the list changeover, how do
I sign off? I need to kill the account about 20 March. Thanks}mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (03/06/90)
In article <9003050139.AA19408@apple.com> KMILES@CC.USU.EDU ("KURT MILES, VAX/MICRO CONSULTANT") writes: >I will be shortly (like 2 weeks) be moving to Norman Oklahome, and as a result >of leaving school will be losin all contact with this and the other axxounts I >have. > >Is there anyone out in netland that can tell me what the policis are at Univ. >Of OK about part-time student access to the University computers and the >availability of bitnet or internet accounts? > >Also, are there any public access or local boards where I could continue to >receive this netgroup? > >The folks on this net have been _EXTREMELY_ helpful to me when I have had >problems, and I want to say to Andy and Dave (all of them) and Matt and Scott >and everyone else who has provided a lot of expert advice and help that I truly >appreciate their help. I hope you guys don't take all the bitching from the >net personally, because if you ever get mad and leave, I think everyone would >be hurting. > >I have immensely enjoyed my time in this group, and I hope to be back soon, but >just in case: > >Best of everything to all of you, now and in the future. > >Kurt Miles > >KMILES@USU (bitnet) >KMILES@cc.usu.edu (internet) > It's probably not really wise to admit it, but I do take some of it personally. I probably always will, too, since I pour so much of myself into the machine and trying to help the people who use it and write software for it. To see things I was involved with irresponsibly slimed by people frustrated at "Apple" sets off an auto-defense mechanism. Other Apple people who used to read this newsgroup left it because all they got for their dozens of hours a week on it was bitching and whining and moaning that "Apple", *which includes them*, "wasn't doing anything for them." I like to think that Norman, Oklahoma has produced some fine Apple II folks. This is easily justified by the fact that just about two years ago this week, I left Norman, OK for Cupertino, CA to work on the Apple II. When I left, you could simply enroll in ENGR 3510 ($35) to get a MultiMAX account with internet access. Eat at Dave's Hole-In-The-Wall Pizza on Campus Corner and tell them I sent you. Go watch the marching band practice in the fall at Wadsack and Asp. Make Computers/Associates on West Main your Apple dealer. And go to the symphonic band concerts. (Go ahead, someone, I dare you to ask questions about the music of Claude T. Smith.) -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." ============================================================================
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (03/06/90)
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >It's probably not really wise to admit it, but I do take some of it personally. >I probably always will, too, since I pour so much of myself into the machine >and trying to help the people who use it and write software for it. To see Thanks for doing it. >things I was involved with irresponsibly slimed by people frustrated at "Apple" >sets off an auto-defense mechanism. Ahhh... But are they sliming you specifically, or are they lashing out at a representative of Apple who happens to be available? >Other Apple people who used to read this newsgroup left it because all they got >for their dozens of hours a week on it was bitching and whining and moaning >that "Apple", *which includes them*, "wasn't doing anything for them." That's because Apple -- IN GENERAL -- wasn't! Matt, you guys don't realize what we put up with... For instance, what would you do if the computer you bought: 1. Was developed at a snail's pace for years, falling far behind the competition in price, performance, and software support while its own company sent myriad signals that it was to be dropped for its other product line in spite of all common sense about the relative market opportunities of the two 2. Is not being recommended by many dealers and friends because they are uncertain about its future to the point where for all they know it could be discontinued any day now 3. Has been constantly reported by certain magazines as being a product which is obsolete and will be phased out soon, while the ones who know the truth say nothing and any real evidence is buried in stacks of non-disclosure agreements 4. Has not been seriously committed to by its own company for years, except for promises which sound more like pacifications, because the evidence to support them has not been substantial enough to bring back developers who ceased supporting it because in their eyes its own company did not 5. Is constantly looked down on by others who own more recently made machines, almost to the point where one is expected to justify its purchase as opposed to a 'real computer' 6. Is now finally getting some much needed improvements, but the convincing support is NOT there, and had better show up soon because people are giving up and buying the competition's machines; they sure as hell aren't going to buy anything else from Apple. ... there are many more. Matt, we appreciate what you guys are doing, but until the people at the top get their signals straight the following things will continue to happen: Apple dealers will not know how to set up a II or demo it (Many of them don't know jack about Macs, either, just how to demo the thing and write up a sales slip) Apple's Education reps will continue to push the Macintosh on people who neither need nor want them when their needs are far better satisfied by 'one student, one computer' labs full of inexpensive //e's and //c's Apple will lose customers daily to Amigas and PC's simply because they either cannot afford Macs or are not about to buy anthing from Apple again; this applies to educators and to many enthusiasts who will now be writing for machines that Apple does NOT sell The software industry will largely forget the Apple II, and eventually the truly dedicated developers will be unable to support a machine which barely gets lip service from its own company in a world where competition is fierce for high performance at low cost Apple's position in the low end will suffer even more than it already has, because the low cost mac people think will solve the problem is looking to be a total dog, and the best low end machines Apple has are atrophing and have been for years Hold on, I'm aware of all the nice new products that have come out for the II: the workstation card the //c+ (not pushed substantially by the dealers) the Video Overlay Card (priced too high for the casual user) the 1 Meg IIGS (some great improvements but not enough to catch up) ... and the 'forthcoming' stuff new sound tools (awesome! but unreleased(?) ) system 6.0 (awesome! but unannounced) hypercard GS (also awesome! but unannounced) the DMA SCSI card (speechlessly awesome! but unannounced) Now if Apple calls this support then I don't, but I will when people are told that there is stuff coming out rather than being given gobs of rumor disclaimers and threats of non-disclosure suits. Apple has nothing to lose when every day of uncertainty bears a cost in market share, customers, and developers. This is not my judgement alone. The personal computer market has decided far more resoundingly than I. It is also fairly obvious what to do about it, but until we see some real action at Apple we will continue to whine because with all the barriers Apple has erected there is not much else we can do besides write letters. If Apple does not realize that non-disclosure is hurting the II more than anything else then they cannot expect to revive their best low end competitor. Nor can they expect developer support unless it is made obvious and sincerely confirmed that the machine has a future. I know it is technically possible, I wrote the //f paper and I also wrote "Reality vs. Apple Computer" which lays bare the grievances that we II owners and many Mac owners have against Apple and its relationship with its customers. The most important point in the latter paper I neglected to state directly; that is that no matter how great a job you guys are doing, the world sees NONE OF IT and that is what we are concerned with. Apple's representatives are far more to blame than anthing else but former Apple employees set them up that way and it is Apple's responsibility to insure that its representatives are really representing Apple Computer and not something else. A simple press release could provide the turning point. How long must we continue to wait? Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com (Dave Harvey) (03/08/90)
In-Reply-To: message from toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu > Matt, you guys don't realize what we put up with... For instance, what would > you do if the computer you bought: > One of my favorites is the videos that Apple's User Group Connection sends out to Apple User Groups several times a year. The most recent one for the most part concerned Macintoshs for the most part and to add insult to injury the last segment on the tape was about new products that came out in 1989. There were NO Apple II products mentioned even though the Video Card was introduced in 1989. proline: pro-novapple!daveharv | uucp: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv | Pro-novapple BBS arpa: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv@nosc.mil | 300/1200/2400 Baud Internet: daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com | 703-671-0415 | Northern Virginia Apple Users Group | P.O. Box 8211, Falls Church, VA 22041 |
mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) (03/09/90)
In article <1990Mar6.121631.2034@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu> toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: > >Matt, you guys don't realize what we put up with... For instance, what would >you do if the computer you bought: > > 1. Was developed at a snail's pace for years, falling far behind the >competition in price, performance, and software support while its own company >sent myriad signals that it was to be dropped for its other product line in >spite of all common sense about the relative market opportunities of the two >[MAJOR editing here] >Todd Whitesel >toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? -- ============================================================================ Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." ============================================================================
bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) (03/09/90)
In <39314@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >In article <1990Mar6.121631.2034@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu> toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: >> >>Matt, you guys don't realize what we put up with... For instance, what would >>you do if the computer you bought: >> >> 1. Was developed at a snail's pace for years, falling far behind the >>competition in price, performance, and software support while its own company >>sent myriad signals that it was to be dropped for its other product line in >>spite of all common sense about the relative market opportunities of the two >>[MAJOR editing here] >Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new >products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that >you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? >============================================================================ >Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are >Developer Technical Support, Apple II | not necessarily those of Apple >Group. Personal mail only, please. | Computer, Inc. Remember that." Gee folks, I think we should be thanking guys like Matt, Dave, Cary, and gals like Rillia (sp) for their tireless support of the Apple II and for fighting the internal battles they have to wage to get Apple II projects going, and keep them going, and giving us FREE speedy technical support. After all, they work as Matt says 60+ hours, and still make time on their own time to visit here and offer help and support. They DON'T HAVE TO VISIT HERE and offer FREE help to all of you. Why in the world do you insist on shoveling sh*t at them?? Yes, I agree, Matt has a set of broad shoulders, but that is no reason to pile all of your frustrations and anger upon them.. They cannot change the thoughts of the "powers" in the Apple "towers", that is where you should send your anger and frustration reports, direct to the "towers", and let the DTS folks find their visits here more pleasurable, and let them do what they do best, help with your programming, and/or technical problems.. <zipping up my flame resistant outer clothing> -- bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL: BSHERMAN >> Miami's Big Apple - 305-948-8000 - 24 hours - 300/1200 - PCP'able << >> Oldest Apple support board in Southeast. Now in it's ninth year. <<
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (03/10/90)
In article <1990Mar9.011652.26967@mthvax.cs.miami.edu>, bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) writes: >>Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new >>products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that >>you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? > >>Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are > > Why in the world do you insist on shoveling sh*t at them?? [....] > your anger and frustration reports, direct to the "towers", and let the DTS > folks find their visits here more pleasurable, and let them do what they > do best, help with your programming, and/or technical problems.. > <zipping up my flame resistant outer clothing> Good, because you're going to get flamed... **** FLAME ON **** Bob, of all people to complain about the way that people post frustrating news (from an apple employee's point of view), you should be the last to talk -- I mean, hey, who was the first person to broadcast on this net that the A2DA people had gone to cupertino and were told to "think mac" (when that may not in fact be true)? You want to post deliberately depressing drivel like that, yet you say that DTS should be given a break on this network? I find that somewhat hypocritical... ---- And, while we're here talking about A2DA, lets have a blast. This was written by Barney Stone on America Online: > Subj: Appologies & Excuses, etc. 90-03-06 10:18:07 EST > From: DBM Barney > > First of all, I still don't have a report to post on the Developer's > Association Summit meeting with Apple. I wrote a 3-page report last week, and > passed it on to Apple to make sure I was not breaking their confidentiality > agreements. I was hoping to post the report before last weekend. > Unfortunately, while Apple had no security problems with the report, some > controversy has arisen over one important issue, and about the overall tone > of the report. I've also had to deal with a death in my family and with > running my day-to-day business. > > Look for a report here by this weekend, and thanks for being patient. Possibly scenarios (that I've heard) about the A2DA meeting: It's fairly obvious that someone close to Barney Stone has died. Knowing this lets us put the following possibilities into a little perspective: (A) Someone close to Barney Stone dies. Barney is upset before, during, or after (definitely after) the A2DA meeting at Apple. Barney thinks it went bad because he is feeling very down. Thus the impression he gives everyone else is one of doom-and-gloom. Nothing went wrong with the meeting with Apple except for Apple presumed lack of enthusiasm for the Apple II. ...or... (B) Someone close to Barney Stone dies. Barney is frustrated and upset during the A2DA meeting. He blows up at Apple.(1) Apple tells Barney they are going to discontinue the Apple II just to piss him off. Barney is pissed AND hurt, but can't tell anyone because he's bound by non-disclosure by Apple. -1- If Barney knew that this person was ill or had died before going to Apple, I perceive that Barney acted somewhat irresponsibly by going to Apple in a very important capacity when his emotional state was not good. Good judgement is one of the qualities of a good leader. Good judgement under stress is one of the qualities of a -great- leader. I've seen Barney in action already, and I'm positive he lacks the latter. -2- If Barney found out about this person's death during his stay in Cupertino, instead of going to any meetings he should have excused himself to fly home and *NOT* take his emotional state into the meeting with Apple. Again, it's a question of judgement. -3- If Barney found out about this person's death AFTER the A2DA meeting with Apple, this would just add to the doom-and-gloom to which Barney subscribes after Apple told him proverbially 'where to get off.' Footnote #1: this was told to me by a reasonably reliable source that I trust, but haven't heard from in ages... ---- This leads us to ponder the following: (1) Did Barney blow up at Apple while at the A2DA meeting? Did someone else from A2DA blow-up at Apple and this has been ascribed to Barney? If Barney did blow-up at Apple at the A2DA meeting, did anyone realize that someone close to him had just died? Does anyone at Apple know? Did this person, in fact, die before, during, or after the A2DA meeting? (2) Did Apple respond to the presumed attack by Barney by telling him they were going to discontinue the Apple II? Was Apple serious? Or was Apple just trying to get a rise out of an already emotionally distraught Barney? (3) Will Barney's report be accurate or anywhere near reliable since he, still being upset, has to get Apple's permission before he posts anything anywhere? Will Barney's report be believable? At this point, I'm just DAMNED TIRED of having people talking in the shadows about all this. I highly respect Barney Stone as a person and an excellent programmer. Anything which I have said should not be construed otherwise. My comments were not made to reflect negatively on Barney, who, I'm sure, has enough to worry about right now. **** FLAME OFF **** andy These are my opinions, not necessarily fact, and are not the opinions held by Moravian College and its administration. -- Yeah!
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (03/10/90)
In article <39314@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes: >Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new >products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that >you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? Probably, just ignore him. I hope you get paid overtime; I've found that management loves to get extra free work out of their techies, but when you need their support you may very likely not get it. Might as well at least get paid.
bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) (03/10/90)
In <1192@batman.moravian.EDU> nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) writes: >In article <1990Mar9.011652.26967@mthvax.cs.miami.edu>, bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) writes: >>>Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new >>>products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that >>>you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? >> >>>Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are >> >> Why in the world do you insist on shoveling sh*t at them?? >[....] >> your anger and frustration reports, direct to the "towers", and let the DTS >> folks find their visits here more pleasurable, and let them do what they >> do best, help with your programming, and/or technical problems.. >> <zipping up my flame resistant outer clothing> >Good, because you're going to get flamed... >**** FLAME ON **** >Bob, of all people to complain about the way that people post frustrating news >(from an apple employee's point of view), you should be the last to talk -- I >mean, hey, who was the first person to broadcast on this net that the A2DA >people had gone to cupertino and were told to "think mac" (when that may not >in fact be true)? You want to post deliberately depressing drivel like that, >yet you say that DTS should be given a break on this network? I find that >somewhat hypocritical... Let's get one thing straight from the start. What I said was not to unload on the folks from DTS that are very much on our side.. I did not say that there should be a cut off on an exchange of information on the net, be it good, bad, or sad. If you have information of interest to others, by all means pass it along, but it does not have to be in the form of an attack upon the folks from Apple that are here trying to help us. The guys from Apple that frequent the net are not here in the role of being a scape goat for everyones petty (or major) frustrations, if you have those I only suggested that you send them to the folks in the "Apple Towers" as they are the only ones that can change whatever it is that frustrates you.. >It's fairly obvious that someone close to Barney Stone has died. Knowing this >lets us put the following possibilities into a little perspective: >(A) Someone close to Barney Stone dies. Barney is upset before, during, or > after (definitely after) the A2DA meeting at Apple. Barney thinks it > went bad because he is feeling very down. Thus the impression he gives > everyone else is one of doom-and-gloom. Nothing went wrong with the > meeting with Apple except for Apple presumed lack of enthusiasm for the > Apple II. >...or... >(B) Someone close to Barney Stone dies. Barney is frustrated and upset > during the A2DA meeting. He blows up at Apple.(1) Apple tells Barney they > are going to discontinue the Apple II just to piss him off. Barney is > pissed AND hurt, but can't tell anyone because he's bound by non-disclosure > by Apple. > -1- If Barney knew that this person was ill or had died before going to > Apple, I perceive that Barney acted somewhat irresponsibly by going > to Apple in a very important capacity when his emotional state was > not good. Good judgement is one of the qualities of a good leader. > Good judgement under stress is one of the qualities of a -great- > leader. I've seen Barney in action already, and I'm positive he > lacks the latter. > -2- If Barney found out about this person's death during his stay in > Cupertino, instead of going to any meetings he should have excused > himself to fly home and *NOT* take his emotional state into the > meeting with Apple. Again, it's a question of judgement. > -3- If Barney found out about this person's death AFTER the A2DA meeting > with Apple, this would just add to the doom-and-gloom to which > Barney subscribes after Apple told him proverbially 'where to get off.' > > Footnote #1: this was told to me by a reasonably reliable source that I > trust, but haven't heard from in ages... >---- >This leads us to ponder the following: >(1) Did Barney blow up at Apple while at the A2DA meeting? Did someone else > from A2DA blow-up at Apple and this has been ascribed to Barney? > If Barney did blow-up at Apple at the A2DA meeting, did anyone realize that > someone close to him had just died? Does anyone at Apple know? Did this > person, in fact, die before, during, or after the A2DA meeting? >(2) Did Apple respond to the presumed attack by Barney by telling him they > were going to discontinue the Apple II? Was Apple serious? Or was Apple > just trying to get a rise out of an already emotionally distraught Barney? >(3) Will Barney's report be accurate or anywhere near reliable since he, > still being upset, has to get Apple's permission before he posts anything > anywhere? Will Barney's report be believable? >I highly respect Barney Stone as a person and an excellent programmer. Anything >which I have said should not be construed otherwise. My comments were not >made to reflect negatively on Barney, who, I'm sure, has enough to worry about >right now. >**** FLAME OFF **** >andy >These are my opinions, not necessarily fact, and are not the opinions held by >Moravian College and its administration. Just to set the record straight as I know it. I find it hard to believe that you find it humorous that someone in Barney's family passed away, and wish to poke all of the above at him in a time when he is suffering the loss of a loved one. The death occured several days AFTER Barney returned from the meeting at Apple, and had nothing to do with his actions while he was in Cupertino. He has been spending his time in the A2 Developers Assn to help foster the cause of ALL A2 programmers (that includes you too Andy) and continues to do so at HIS expense. The trip to Apple had to cost him well over a thousand bucks out of his own pocket (remember, the Assn. has never asked for the first penny from anyone that belongs to it), yet it is trying to help everyone. To insure that whatever public statement Barney makes is correct and factual, and presents a fair point of view, Barney wants it to be approved not only by Apple, but by other members of the group that were present at the meeting. That process, combined with the death in his family has been the cause of the delay in his posting of the notice. In addition Barney has asked another member of the group that attended the meeting to also write and make public "their view" of the events that took place, so that there is more than one viewpoint available to all of us. Does that sound like the actions of a man that you describe above as possibly not being reliable or accurate? Be glad there is someone like Barney out there TRYING, and putting his own money where his mouth is. -- bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL: BSHERMAN >> Miami's Big Apple - 305-948-8000 - 24 hours - 300/1200 - PCP'able << >> Oldest Apple support board in Southeast. Now in its ninth year. <<
sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown) (03/12/90)
In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM Matt Deatherage writes: > Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new > products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that > you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? I'd say to my superiors that I needed a greater number of people helping out on these projects. Besides, I think you can appreciate Todd's comments (and mine) that developments for the Apple II are too infrequent and far between. Your work for the Apple II is appreciated... we just want to see some of it <soon>. Stephen Brown --flame away---I don't care anymore--- UUCP: crash!pro-generic!sb ARPA: crash!pro-generic!sb@nosc.mil INET: sb@pro-generic.cts.com
NOSES@DBNINF5.BITNET (Achim Patzner) (03/13/90)
Subj: Re: contacts in Norman, OK [I'll save you the rest...] > Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new > products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that > you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? > Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are In one way you're right, YOU are doing something about it... BUT: If the department could use a lot more manhours (I just can't believe that you are such a workaholic - or do you have to pay for your Applelink accounts yourself? 8-) ) WHY don't they try to get some more people to save you from collapsing under your workload? If Apple was really interested in massive improvements in the Apple II line they should invest a bit more in what they call 'Human Resources'... Todd, don't bite him. Find someone higher up; the people who show up here have proved that they are interested in the machine. I could imagine something more interesting to do in the few free hours I have left over.... Achim (Noses@DBNINF5.BITNET -preferred- or ...!unido!bnu!patzner)
nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) (03/13/90)
> **** FLAME ON **** > And, while we're here talking about A2DA, lets have a blast. Well, interestingly enough, Ron Lewin from the Apple II Developer's Association said that the rumors and pure speculation that I posted regarding the A2DA 'summit' meeting with Apple and Barney Stone were false (I expected at least that much). Ron told me that (I'm paraphrasing) A2DA wasn't told "everything they wanted to hear" and that their discussions with apple were "very active" at times, but that "no one lost their temper." Wonder if we'll ever find out what _really_ happened that the A2DA meeting? Probably 'not... I'll remain skeptical until then. andy -- Yeah!
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (03/17/90)
sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from mattd@Apple.COM >Matt Deatherage writes: >> Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new >> products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that >> you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? >I'd say to my superiors that I needed a greater number of people helping out >on these projects. Thank you Stephen. You've hit the nail on the head. Matt, one guy or even a hundred working their tails off is still a snail's pace if the machine itself isn't kept competitive with its opponents in the market and that's exactly what's happened to the GS and even the 8 bit II's. The GS could have been vastly improved quite a while ago but Apple was too stressed trying to get the Mac into a serious fighting postion with IBM; they seem to be turning around, but Apple is a much bigger company now; it will take a lot longer than everyone expects, especially when the dealer network finally gets a much needed refresher course in how to serve and not sell-sell-sell. The 8 bit II's could be manufactured really cheap and might even be K-mart-able (horrors, but I mean that cheap) and would suit the people who just want to run AppleWorks or do something else simple and otherwise not worry about the machine. These people don't pay a lot either and they won't be buying a Mac or GS anytime soon, probably a Clone, and they won't be using its full capability either so they are still technically throwing money away that they wouldn't have to if a cheaper machine still addressed their needs adequately. Apple has obtained access to a lot of state of the art technology and they have so many low end opportunities no one else has, if they'd only realize it. 8 bit technology can be made so cheaply that if people would stop thinking 'latest technology' then we might get some computers that address the diversity of the market -- by being cheap and reliable and more cost-effective than the latest. XT Clones still sell briskly... Apple could make some serious capital from the same effect. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu