drw@cullvax.UUCP (06/17/87)
Is there any standard Simula tutorial or reference I can learn the language from? thanks, Dale -- Dale Worley Cullinet Software ARPA: cullvax!drw@eddie.mit.edu UUCP: ...!seismo!harvard!mit-eddie!cullvax!drw "President Nixon has just lowered the speed of light to 55 mph. At what speed can 2 colliding VW's of mass m = (number) produce a 3rd VW?"
rentsch@unc.UUCP (06/18/87)
In article <1288@cullvax.UUCP> drw@cullvax.UUCP (Dale Worley) writes: > Is there any standard Simula tutorial or reference I can learn the > language from? Simula BEGIN, by Birtwhistle (and others), published by Petrocelli Charter (don't remember the year or know if it is still in print -- try a library if you can't find it elsewhere).
steve@hubcap.UUCP (06/18/87)
In article <1288@cullvax.UUCP>, drw@cullvax.UUCP (Dale Worley) writes: > Is there any standard Simula tutorial or reference I can learn the > language from? The orginal - perhaps still the best - is titled "Simula Begin." It is a combination definition report and users manual in the inimitable algol style. Sorry, I don't have the full reference available, but Dahl is one of the authors.
pjbk@cs.hw.ac.uk (Peter King) (06/22/87)
In article <1288@cullvax.UUCP> drw@cullvax.UUCP (Dale Worley) writes: >Is there any standard Simula tutorial or reference I can learn the >language from? > The best book on Simula-67 is RJ Pooley "An Introduction to Programming with Simula" Blackwell 1987 It is the only book which teaches the current Simula standard, and is a far better source than Simula-Begin. There are short introductions (concentrating on Simulation) in WR Franta "A Process View of Simulation" Elsevier 1978? I Mitrani "Simulation Techniques for Discrete Event Systems" Cambridge University Press 1985? The Simula Newsletter has a regular list of publications on Simula, (surprisingly, they are often in Polish, Russian, Czech -- maybe reliable software will be the Warsaw Pact's answer to star Wars! ) The Newsletter is sent quarterly to members of the Simula Users Group. Membership is free, send Name/Address to ASU Secretariat, Simula a.s., Postbox 4403, Torshov, 0402 Oslo 4 Norway -- Peter King, Computer Science Department JANET: pjbk@uk.ac.hw.cs Heriot-Watt University ARPA: pjbk@cs.hw.ac.uk 79 Grassmarket, Edinburgh EH1 2HJ or pjbk%cs.hw.ac.uk@ucl-cs Phone: (+44) 31 225 6465 Ext. 555 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!pjbk
karl@haddock.UUCP (Karl Heuer) (06/23/87)
In article <626@unc.cs.unc.edu> rentsch@unc.UUCP (Tim Rentsch) writes: >In article <6641@shemp.UCLA.EDU> khayo@CS.UCLA.EDU (Erazm J. Behr) writes: >> Quite a few years ago I have been using the Norwegian >> object-oriented derivative of Algol, Simula 67. ... > >As I recall, there was a Simula available from the Norwegian folks, ... Somehow, I have always been under the impression that it was from Sweden, not Norway. Which is it really? (And would anyone happen to know the significance of the string "ZYQ" in that compiler?) Karl W. Z. Heuer (ima!haddock!karl or karl@haddock.isc.com), The Walking Lint (I've expanded the distribution to "world" for this subdiscussion.)
pjbk@cs.hw.ac.uk (Peter King) (06/26/87)
The confusion over where Simula originates should not arise, since it is well documented in the conference on the history of programming languages. It is definitely a product of the Norwegian Computer Center (NCC) in Oslo. The principle designers were O.-J. Dahl and K. Nygaard. For many years the NCC were the distributers of Simula implementations (and the authors of many). The Swedish connection is that the DEC-10 implementation (one of the best, and it was free for many years) was written by a Swedish Defence research establishment. Jacob Palme was heavily involved there. I don't know for certain the origin of ZYQ in the error messages. I suspect that it may be restricted to a small subset of implementations (IBM 360/370 ?), and was chosen so that the error message identifiers would not clash with any of IBM's IER... etc. As always, the best source of information is the Simula newsletter, a free subscription being available from the Association of Simula Users. ASU Secretariat Simula a.s. Postbox 4403, Torshov 0402 Oslo 4 Norway -- Peter King, Computer Science Department JANET: pjbk@uk.ac.hw.cs Heriot-Watt University ARPA: pjbk@cs.hw.ac.uk 79 Grassmarket, Edinburgh EH1 2HJ or pjbk%cs.hw.ac.uk@ucl-cs Phone: (+44) 31 225 6465 Ext. 555 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!pjbk
dcw@doc.ic.ac.uk (Duncan C White) (06/26/87)
In article <606@haddock.UUCP> karl@haddock.ISC.COM.UUCP (Karl Heuer) writes: >Somehow, I have always been under the impression that it was from Sweden, not >Norway. Which is it really? (And would anyone happen to know the >significance of the string "ZYQ" in that compiler?) > >Karl W. Z. Heuer (ima!haddock!karl or karl@haddock.isc.com), The Walking Lint >(I've expanded the distribution to "world" for this subdiscussion.) To quote from SIMULA BEGIN: [page 10: Preface] + ...the programming language SIMULA .. was designed by three of the authors + [of SIMULA BEGIN] whilst staff members at the Norwegian Computing Centre + Oslo. The confusion may arise because all the copies I've seen of SIMULA BEGIN [2nd Edition] are printed in Sweden. 'Fraid I know nothing about the meaning of ZYQ, though.... still, a little mystery is good for the soul. :-) This discussion started by someone asking about good SIMULA tutorials/books. My vote goes on "The Green Book" [ that is, "Introduction to SIMULA-67", by Gunther Lamprecht, ISBN 3-528-13340-6, printed in Bremen, Germany ] When I recently wanted to know the syntax of 'virtual', I turned first to SIMULA BEGIN, and found two references in the index: 1). a one paragraph comment introducing the concept, but not making the syntax clear, and 2). a table of reserved words! I then turned to the green book, and it had only one reference in the index, but it gave a proper example, making the syntax a lot clearer! Duncan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- JANET address : dcw@uk.ac.ic.doc| Snail Mail : Duncan White, --------------------------------| Dept of Computing, This space intentionally | Imperial College, left blank...... | 180 Queen's Gate, (paradoxical excerpt from | South Kensington, IBM manuals) | London SW7 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tel: UK 01-589-5111 x 4982/4991 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
tombre@crin.UUCP (Karl Tombre) (07/03/87)
In article <606@haddock.UUCP> karl@haddock.ISC.COM.UUCP (Karl Heuer) writes: >Somehow, I have always been under the impression that it was from Sweden, not >Norway. Which is it really? (And would anyone happen to know the >significance of the string "ZYQ" in that compiler?) > It is Norwegian. Simula-67 was created by people from the University of Oslo and the Norwegian Computing Center. In 1984 a company was created "to develop and market SIMULA systems and derived products". Their address : Simula a.s. Forskningsveien 1B Postboks 335, Blindern N-0314 Oslo 3, Norway Some Simula systems come also from Sweden, but that started later. People at Lund University were involved very early with the language, and if I'm not erring the book "SIMULA Begin" was first published in Sweden. the Lund Software House AB was created this year for selling the Lund Simula system. Among the creators of Simula-67, some are still working on object-oriented languages. Kristen Nygaard, from the University of Oslo, is working with the Norwegian Computing Center (once again) and the Universities of Aarhus and Aalborg in Denmark on a new language, BETA. See for instance : "Classification of actions or Inheritance also for methods", by B.B. Kristensen, O.L. Madsen, B. Moller-Pedersen and K. Nygaard, in Proceedings of the 2nd European Conference on Object Oriented Programming, paris, June 1987. or "The BETA programming language", to appear (or already appeared?) in "Research Directions in Object Oriented Programming", ed. B.D. Shriver and P. Wegner, MIT Press, 1987. By the way, the original question was if there were still Simula-7 fans. The language was probably too modern for its time, but is now recognized as the first O.O. language. Even if it is not in general use, it has had a heavy influence on other languages, the best known being C++. Eiffel is also in the same "school", and several other languages. -- --- Karl Tombre @ CRIN (Centre de Recherche en Informatique de Nancy) EMAIL : tombre@crin.UUCP POST : Karl Tombre, CRIN, B.P. 239, 54506 VANDOEUVRE CEDEX, France PHONE : +33 83.91.21.25
khayo@MATH.UCLA.EDU (07/05/87)
In article <1284@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk> pjbk@cs.hw.AC.UK (Peter King) writes: (...) >The Simula Newsletter has a regular list of publications on >Simula, (surprisingly, they are often in Polish, Russian, Czech >-- maybe reliable software will be the Warsaw Pact's answer to star >Wars! ) The reason is, I believe, a little less frightening {:-)} At some point (around 1976) the CS department of Warsaw University started looking around for a language which could be used to teach ideas in simulation theory. The boss of the department took fancy to Simula and it became the standard instructional language, much like Pascal is here in most places. Since Warsaw Univ. has a lot of exchange programs with Moscow, Prague etc., they probably contracted the "disease" soon. Two of my TAs there (Oktaba, Ratajczak - very nice ladies) wrote a book containing precise syntax diagrams & very thorough, theoretical description of the coroutine mechanisms involved; alas, the book is in Polish and not translated to any Western tongue. In case anyone is interested - a piece of history. The CS decided to stay strictly within Algol-like world (S-67 is an extension of Algol-60, give or take a few details) because until ca. 1975, when it got hooked up to a CDC Cyber 73, the only computer that the students could learn on was (... guess ...) an ancient Danish Regnecentralen GIER transistor affair, built, I believe, in the late 50's. The story goes that the machine was about to go to a museum in Denmark, but some enterprising individuals from the DK-PL friendship society arranged for it to be donated to the Science & Technology Museum in Warsaw. The good deed was done, but when the news reached the hackers at the University, they begged and threatened and weeped until the authorities gave the GIER to them. There it was equipped with a uniquely Polish contraption called a "carousel", which consisted of several concentrically arranged tape drives using some custom-built cartridges, which gave much better access times than standard drives, and various other home-grown improvements. Now you see where the "Polish calculator" jokes are coming from. Anyhow, all the students, including myself, were initially trained on GIER, which spoke only Algol. You wouldn't believe the fun involved in punching holes in a tape (sometimes even manually, just to correct a letter here an there), and leaving the tape in a box in front of the closed door behind which GIER slept (somewhat like leaving a virgin beside a dragon's den). Too much said already - forgive me, this really belongs in comp.ancient.recoll. >>>>== .sicknature =======> khayo@math.ucla.edu [Eric Behr]
karl@haddock.UUCP (07/10/87)
In article <1290@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk> pjbk@cs.hw.AC.UK (Peter King) writes: >I don't know for certain the origin of ZYQ in the error messages. >I suspect that it may be restricted to a small subset of implementations >(IBM 360/370 ?), and was chosen so that the error message identifiers >would not clash with any of IBM's IER... etc. Well, I saw it in the pdp10 implementation, but your explanation is probably correct if you substitute DEC for IBM. TOPS-10 error messages had 6-letter abbreviations, consisting of a three-letter program id and a three-letter error id, e.g. LGNOFI (LoGiN: Out of Funds, Individual account). "Real" hackers would elect to receive the abbreviations without the plaintext. :-) The simula compiler itself used "SIM" as its abbreviation. The run-time library used "ZYQ", apparently to avoid clashing with anything known. It was rumored that there was also an internal variable or reserved word or something named Z_Y_Q, but we never verified this. We concluded that "ZYQ" was the Norwegian word for "FOO".* Since my CITPPN was [29970,KZH] (my real initials KWH having already been taken), I adopted "Zyq" (pronounced "Zeke") as an artificial middle name. (Finally, the truth is out about that signature!) Karl W. Z. Heuer (ima!haddock!karl or karl@haddock.isc.com), The Walking Lint *Credit for this joke goes to Dale Woodford [29970,DFW]. (Actually, the original said "Swedish".)