[comp.lang.fortran] Pecan Software "steals" $100 from me

btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) (02/23/88)

The proof is in the pudding, and there won't be any "Pecans" in mine.

(flame on  CCC===<<<<<<<<<<-<<<_<<<<<< )

Several weeks ago, I posted an article about some interesting development
products from:

		Pecan Software Systems
		1410 39th Street
		Brooklyn, NY  11218
		718-851-3100

These include F77, UCSD Pascal, Modula2 & BASIC language systems available
for a wide variety of machines (Amigas, IBM PC's, Atari ST's,
PDP's, Macintoshes, and others).  The really neat thing about these
systems is that they support a common Turtlegraphics graphics interface
across machines, which I figured would be ideal for scientific
applications programming.  It sounds almost too good to be true, and for me
it was.  I ordered the F77 system for MSDOS to try out.
	I was a little suspicious about dealing with a company with
a Brooklyn, NY address, and I should have trusted my instincts.
	First mistake, they sent me the UCSD Pascal system instead of F77.
I thought, "OK, I can play with this to get a feel for their stuff, and then
send back the Pascal in exchange for F77."
	It is a pretty nice little environment,
but it has one "feature/bug" which really annoys me, Pecan apparently
decided that they want to support a common development ENVIRONMENT
across different machines, so they run their own "virtual" file system on
top of MSDOS, so that all of your files reside in these huge MSDOS files,
the size of which you must declare ahead of time.  I imagine that Pecan
has modelled this system on the environment of UCSD Pascal, but on this I
am only speculating, because I have never worked in a UCSD Pascal environment.
	Well, I tried out a demo turtlegraphics program, and it worked
fine, so I started to wonder just how the turtlegraphics was implemented
in the F77 version.  I called the technical support line, and I got some
woman who didn't seem to know what I was talking about and neither did
she care.  I called back the next day, and got the same stupid woman (on
their technical support line!).  After she yanked me around for several
minutes by giving me evasive (unwilling to say, "I don't know, but I'll
find out.") answers, she put me on hold to "find out".  I waited on hold
for about 5 minutes, and then hung up, realizing that Pecan was obviously
not going to work out for me.  ("I'll just stick with Microsoft Fortran
and Heartland Software's excellent HGRAPH package.", I decided.)  I asked our
purchasing people to return the package for a refund, but Pecan refused it. 
I called up to find out why, and they told me that I had to have a
"return authorization", so I asked for one on the basis that I didn't like
the package, and that it wasn't what the advertising had led me to expect,
and Pecan refused to let me return it.  And so, the origin of this post.

I have learned:
	- to trust my instincts and avoid businesses located in Brooklyn
	- to avoid Pecan Software, and
	- to stick with "big blue" (i.e., Microsoft)

I don't know if anybody else on the net has had dealings with Pecan, but
I sure regret mine.  (To the tune of $100.)  But, I'm not giving up. 
Next stop, the Brooklyn Better Business Bureau (if they have one).

I am disgusted with Pecan Software.

-- 
			Brad Banko
			Columbus, Ohio
			(formerly ...!decvax!cwruecmp!ncoast!btb)
			btb%ncoast@mandrill.cwru.edu

"The only thing we have to fear on this planet is man."
			-- Carl Jung, 1875-1961

kevin@calvin.EE.CORNELL.EDU (Kevin Tubbs) (02/25/88)

In article <7432@ncoast.UUCP>, btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:
> 
> I don't know if anybody else on the net has had dealings with Pecan, but
> I sure regret mine.  (To the tune of $100.)  But, I'm not giving up. 
> 
> I am disgusted with Pecan Software.
> 
Some thoughts about mail order buying, a necessary evil:

Buy with credit card where possible.  Many card-issuing banks can do a charge-
back to the vendor if something goes wrong and you can't reason with the
vendor.  Paying by check leaves you out in the cold.  When buying via purchase
order, don't authorize payment until you're satisfied.  If the vendor can't
make good within a few weeks, they're not likely to ever do so.

Personally, I don't like to buy from any place that doesn't allow 30-day money
back, or charges a "restocking" fee.  Sometimes, calling with technical
questions about the product BEFORE you buy will give you a good feel for their
customer service, or lack of it.

Vendors that accept our University PO without question are usually quite good.
If I call and they say "ya need to send uh check sur", I go elsewhere.  There
are a lot of good mail-order vendors out there, but the bad ones provide
enough aggrivation to last a lifetime.

If you saw their ad in a magazine, write to the mag and complain, loudly!  Most
reputable mags will investigate.

Isaac_K_Rabinovitch@cup.portal.com (02/25/88)

btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:

->(flame on  CCC===<<<<<<<<<<-<<<_<<<<<< )
It's very sad the role model for so many netters is The Human Torch,
a comic book character with no brains and a very short temper.
->
->Several weeks ago, I posted an article about some interesting development
->products from:
->
->		Pecan Software Systems
->
->These include F77, UCSD Pascal, Modula2 & BASIC language systems available
->for a wide variety of machines (Amigas, IBM PC's, Atari ST's,
->PDP's, Macintoshes, and others).
-> I ordered the F77 system for MSDOS to try out.
->	I was a little suspicious about dealing with a company with
->a Brooklyn, NY address, and I should have trusted my instincts.
Right, everybody knows that there are no legitimate businesses of any
sort in Brooklyn.  It's a well-known fact!

->	First mistake, they sent me the UCSD Pascal system instead of F77.
->I thought, "OK, I can play with this to get a feel for their stuff, and then
->send back the Pascal in exchange for F77."
->	It is a pretty nice little environment, but ...
->[discussion of problems with program and curiousity about this
->form of Pascal]
->I called the technical support line, and I got some
->woman who didn't seem to know what I was talking about and neither did
->she care.  [Unhelpfulness from "stupid" tech. support woman.]
->I asked our
->purchasing people to return the package for a refund, but Pecan refused it. 

I take it that it was purchased via P.O. rather than payment in advance.
(Companies big enough to having purchasing departments never pay in advance.)
If it isn't too late you might tell Purchasing not to send the check.
They might also know other ways to recover the money.

->I called up to find out why, and they told me that I had to have a
->"return authorization", so I asked for one on the basis that I didn't like
->the package, and that it wasn't what the advertising had led me to expect,
->and Pecan refused to let me return it.  And so, the origin of this post.

You said before they sent you a product other than what you ordered.
Perhaps they don't believe you and think you're just someone who doesn't
want to pay.  Try sending them a copy of your PO.

->I have learned:
->	- to trust my instincts and avoid businesses located in Brooklyn
Sounds a litte chauvinistic, but then I'm just a Flaky TootiFruit (I must
be, I live in California).
->	- to avoid Pecan Software, and
->	- to stick with "big blue" (i.e., Microsoft)
Yeah, you're gonna love *their* tech. support department.
->
->I don't know if anybody else on the net has had dealings with Pecan, but
->I sure regret mine.  (To the tune of $100.)  But, I'm not giving up. 
->Next stop, the Brooklyn Better Business Bureau (if they have one).
BBBs are voluntary associations with no punitive power.  If you feel you've
been defrauded, and any part of this transation used US Mail, you can file
a complaint with the postal inspector.  You can also sue, but I don't
suppose that's worth the trouble.

Not applicable in this case but worth remembering:  one advantage to buying
mail order stuff with a credit card instead of a check is that you
have more defense if you get ripped off.  If you want to dispute a charge,
because you bought something that wasn't as advertised,
call your bank -- and do it as soon as possible, because their are time
limits and procedures that vary from bank to bank.   *All* banks provide
for witholding of illegitimate charges to your plastic, because Uncle Sam
says they must.
->I am disgusted with Pecan Software.
Really?

Isaac Rabinovitch
Disclaimer:  Just because I think you're wrong, doesn't
             mean I don't think you're a fun person!
:-)

sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) (02/25/88)

In article <7432@ncoast.UUCP> btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:
>Several weeks ago, I posted an article about some interesting development
>products from:

>		Pecan Software Systems

>These include F77, UCSD Pascal, Modula2 & BASIC language systems available
>for a wide variety of machines (Amigas, IBM PC's, Atari ST's,
>PDP's, Macintoshes, and others).  The really neat thing about these
>systems is that they support a common Turtlegraphics graphics interface
>across machines, which I figured would be ideal for scientific
>applications programming.  It sounds almost too good to be true, and for me
>it was.  I ordered the F77 system for MSDOS to try out.

>	First mistake, they sent me the UCSD Pascal system instead of F77.
>I thought, "OK, I can play with this to get a feel for their stuff, and then
>send back the Pascal in exchange for F77."
>	It is a pretty nice little environment,
>but it has one "feature/bug" which really annoys me, Pecan apparently
>decided that they want to support a common development ENVIRONMENT
>across different machines, so they run their own "virtual" file system on
>top of MSDOS, so that all of your files reside in these huge MSDOS files,
>the size of which you must declare ahead of time.  I imagine that Pecan
>has modelled this system on the environment of UCSD Pascal, but on this I
>am only speculating, because I have never worked in a UCSD Pascal environment.

If I'm not mistaken Pecan *is selling* the UCSD Pascal System. Or at least a
derivitive of it. Softech (the Ada company) got the rights to UCSD Pascal
around about 1980 and created a company called Softech Microsystems, based
in San Diego to sell it. They did fairly well (this was pre IBM PC etc) for
a number of years. When the PC came out they where one of the three
operating systems available (CPM/86 and MS-DOS being the other two). Priced
like CPM/86 at something around $500 per copy compared to about $50 for
MS-DOS, it wasn't too long before MS-DOS became the de-facto standard for
the PC. 

About 1984 a small startup company called Borland launched a $49 Pascal
compiler which wasn't all the great, but at that price noboby seemed to
care. Within a year or two Softech had closed down Softech MicroSystems. They
apparantly sold the rights to the software to Pecan.

So I would presume that Pecan is simply selling all of the p-System (Softech
Microsystems name for their version of UCSD Pascal) for a price which would
have made a great deal of sense (in retrospect) in 1984, but is of historic 
interest only these days. 

I personally started and ran a company (Network Consulting Inc.) in 1981 which
developed and supported a better version of the p-System for the IBM PC than
was available from IBM. It too went the way of the dodo when the sales
dropped off in 1985 faster than we were able to skip over to the Unix market 
(which was a little to young to support well supported IBM Unix clones at that
time). 

For its time the p-System *was* a very nice little system. Fortran, Basic,
Pascal running on about ten different CPU's, with native code generation
available for use by customers in the field. You could sell *one* version of
a program to run on any of the target processors, regardless of byte sex
problems etc, the customer could convert it to native code for speed in the
field. Built in segment swapping allowed for very impressivly large programs
to be built (for that time period, 256kb systems were still pretty
standard). The biggest limitation was the 64kb data space.


-- 
{ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision,uunet}!van-bc!Stuart.Lynne Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532