[comp.lang.fortran] FORTRAN 8x Public Comment Summary

psmith@convex.UUCP (03/30/88)

For you information, the following is a summary of the comments received
from the public review period on the FORTRAN 8x.  The Position column 
is what I could glean by looking at them.  If anyone has any corrections,
my fingers are fat...so send them to me.  I'm sure there are mistakes...


     Of the 396 total comments:   
	  
         60% are negative
	 22% are positive
	 14% are comments with no real position
	  4% expressed concern as opposed to a strong 
	     positive or negative position

      Submitter                   Company                       Position

  1. Patte Pyle                Amway Corp                        Negative
  2. William Kafig             Harry Diamond Labs                Negative
  3. Robert Hall               Science Appl International        Positive
  4. R.J. Hanson               ADI Corp                          Positive
  5. Joe Knipperburg           Federal Communications Comm       Negative
  6. Rick Anderson             Center for Lithospheric Studies   Negative
  7. John Babcock              Professional Engineer             Negative
  8. Lila Chase                Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab       Comments
  9. John Rahn                 School of Music, Univ of Wash.    Negative
 10. Tony Linthicum            CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 11. Bonnie Hill               CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 12. Ron Lieberman             CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 13. Susan Linthicum           Philadelphia Life Ins             Negative
 14. Randall Mercer            CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 15. John Torkelson            CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 16. Jan Boerhout              CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 17. Gary Ramsey               LTV Aerospace                     Negative
 18. Jonathan Becher           Duke University                   Negative
 19. John P. Cole              Self                              Negative
 20. Nolan Davis               University of Texas               Negative
 21. Cyrus D. Cantrell         Univeristy of Texas               Negative
 22. Danny Chu                 University of Texas               Negative
 23. Chris Jahn                Software Lexcography              Negative
 24. Mick Banter               Syntech                           Negative
 25. Patrick Christoffersen    Wisconsin Public Service          Negative
 26. Earl Damewood             INCO Alloys International         Negative
 27. Edgar Soulie              Laboratorie de Reactivite...      Comments
 28. Jesse Black               Self                              Negative
 29. Burton Strauss            Catalyst Group                    Negative
 30. J.L. Schoenfelder         University of Liverpool           Negative
 31. Renee Kellow              CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 32. J.D. McDonald             University of Illinois            Negative
 33. David Bailey              Ames Research Center              Positive
 34. Phil Hooper               Kennedy Space Center              Comments
 35. John Lynn                 Marshall Space Flight Center      Positive
 36. Fred Krogh, etc. (2)      Jet Propulsion Laboratory         Comments
 37. James Matheny             Self                              Positive
 38. Neil Rickert              Northern Illinois Univ            Negative
 39. George MeMechan           University of Texas               Negative
 40. Bob Zoller                TRW Valve Division                Negative
 41. Presley Smith             CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 42. Ray Seyfarth              Self                              Negative
 43. John Swanson              Swanson Analysis Systems          Negative
 44. E.T. Ford, etc.  (4)      Independent Broadcasing Auth.     Negative
 45. Stewart A Levin           Mobil Research                    Positive
 46. Edward Smith              Self                              Negative
 47. Mary Hovik                Lehigh County Community Col.      Negative
 48. Michael G. Miller         University of Georgia             Negative
 49. Brian Gray                General Tire                      Positive
 50. Jack Peterson             Los Alamos, Comp Physics          Negative
 51. Loren Meissner            University of San Francisco       Positive
 52. J. Wayne Gray             Honeywell O.E.D.                  Negative
 53. Suze Hym                  Southwestern Bell                 Negative
 54. David Anderson            Lawrence Livermore Lab            Negative
 55. Wayne Finke               RF Monolithics, Inc.              Negative
 56. Carl Malec                Boeing Advanced Systems           Negative
 57. James Beers               Fluor Daniel                      Negative
 58. Jim Armstrong             CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 59. David Hill                Northern Telecom                  Negative
 60. Tisha Motley              King Computer Search              Negative
 61. Sally King                King Computer Search              Negative
 62. Sandy Davis               King Computer Search              Negative
 63. Alan Wallcraft            JAYCOR                            Positive
 64. Dr. S. Morgan             University of Liverpool           Positive
 65. James Rodgers             International Power Machines      Negative
 66. David Atkinson            King Computer Search              Negative
 67. L. Hatton                 Programming Research Ltd.         Negative
 68. William Leonard           Harris Corp.                      Negative
 69. Jeanne Martin             Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab       Comments
 70. Debbie Vela               Mobil Exploration                 Negative
 71. David Wilson              Self                              Comments
 72. Loren Meissner (51 also)  University of San Francisco       Positive
 73. Steven O. Siegfried       Self                              Negative
 74. M.D. Sisson               LTV Missles and Electronics       Negative
 75. Bob Allison               Microsoft                         Negative
 76. Stuart Renes              AT&T Technology                   Negative
 77. Bob Malchie               Los Alamos Natl Lab               Positive
 78. David Jones               Jones Computer Consulting         Negative
 79. Michael Clover            Los Alamos                        Negative
 80. Jay Elewitz               Self                              Negative
 81. Joseph R. Zuiden          LTV Aircraft Products Group       Negative
 82. Linda Yohe                Texas Exchange Carrier Assoc      Negative
 83. Allen Wadle               LTV Missle and Electronics        Negative
 84. (Signature Illegible)     Southwestern Bell                 Negative 
 85. Scott Matthews            Idaho National Engr Lab           Positive
 86. David Burrows             Pennsylvania State Univ           Negative
 87. Sharon Clay               TECA                              Negative
 88. Robert Hench              GE Information Services           Negative
 89. Charles Light             Cincinnati Gas and Electric       Comments
 90. Jeanine McDermott         Electrospace Systems              Negative
 91. Joe Nation                University of Texas               Negative
 92. Lennart Begtsson          European Centre for Weather...    Positive
 93. George Weekly             Dept of Air Force                 Positive
 94. Gary Bills                Boeing Company                    Negative
 95. Mark Hall                 Boeing Aerospace                  Negative
 96. David Nokes               Self                              Negative
 97. David Plumley             Boeing Company                    Negative
 98. Steven Haertel            CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
 99. Steven Joachims           Self                              Negative
100. Thomas Nishikawa          CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
101. Mark D. Hall              Boeing Aerospace Company          Negative
102. Russell Swim              John Deere Parts Dist. Center     Negative
103. Dwight Rousu              Self                              Negative
104. Matthew F. Smith          Boeing Computer Services          Negative
105. Guy Wormser, etc. (14)    Stanford University               Negative
106. Stewart Anderson          Boeing Computer Services          Negative
107. Michael Behrens           Deutsches Elektronen              Positive
108. David Wilson              Self                              Comments
109. Bruce Walker              Andante Software                  Negative
110. Stephen McGrogan          ELXSI                             Negative
111. Thomas Grandine           Boeing Computer Services          Negative
112. Anthony Cummins           Telex Computer Products           Negative
113. David Dorfman             CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative 
114. Mark Nicklaus             Institute of Applied Physics      Positve
115. Brian J. Christianson     Self                              Negative
116. Joseph Hearst             Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab       Comments
117. Ken Starr                 Self                              Negative
118. Robert Johnson            Penn State College of Bus. Adm.   Negative
119. David Vallance, etc. (4)  University of Salford             Negative
120. Stephen Miyawaki          System Software Services          Negative
121. Seymour J. Metz           Self                              Concern
122. Fred Krogh                Jet Propulsion Lab                Comments
123. John Rice                 Purdue University                 Positive
124. Jonathan Thornburg        University of British Columbia    Comments
125. Robert Greeves            Department of Energy              Negative
126. A.N. Richmond             University of Liverpool           Comments
127. Alan Hunt                 Voice Control Systems             Negative
128. Richard Hicks             Martin Marietta Energy Syst.      Positive
129. Jack Perrine              Self                              Comments
130. Howard Page               CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
131. William Rinehuls          General Services Administration   Positive
132. M.C. Monson               Deere & Company                   Negative
133. W. Van Snyder             Jet Propulsion Lab                Negative
134. William Hiteshew          University of Maryland            Negative
135. Adrian Melott             University of Kansas              Negative
136. N. Arunasalem             SC SCICON                         Negative
137. John Moses                Self                              Negative
138. Donald L. Lucas           International Power Machines      Negative
139. H.R. Child                Oak Ridge Natl Lab                Comments
140. Stephen Miyawaki          McDonald Douglass Aerospace       Positive
141. Michael Berry             Think Machines                    Positive
142. A.L. Lopez, etc. (4)      Amoco Corporation Systems Dev     Negative
143. David Ford                Exxon Central Services            Negative
144. Gordon Hughes             University of Edinburgh           Positive
145. Richard Owen              Lawrence Livermore Labs           Concern
146. Jack Saba                 Science Applications Research     Negative
147. John Miano                Self                              Negative
148. Roger Ove                 University of Illinois            Negative
149. Merle VanDyke             Boeing Computer Services          Negative
150. James Tocher              Boeing Computer Services          Negative
151. James Townsend            NASA Langley Research Center      Concern
152. Christopher Tanner        Atomic Energy of Canada Limited   Positive
153. John Ingebretsen          Self                              Negative
154. Michael Young             Sandia National Lab               Comments
155. Fred Clare                Natl Center for Atmospheric Res.  Negative
156. Richard Albright          University of Delaware            Negative
157. W. Don Rolph              Texas Instruments, MC Group       Negative
158. Jonathan Coxhead          Feg Limited                       Positive
159. Richard Harris            Self                              Negative
160. Karl-Heinz Rotthauser     GMD (Germany)                     Comments
161. Lee Busby, etc. (5)       Lawrence Livermore Lab            Positive
162. David Muxworthy           Edinburgh University              Positive
163. Ted Hansen                Self                              Negative
164. Kolette Krauss            Boeing Computing Services         Negative
165. James Baltes              General Research Corp             Negative
166. Brian Ford, etc. (3)      Numerical Algorithms Group        Positive
167. Paul Sinclair             Austec                            Negative
168. W.E. Hooper               Boeing Vertol                     Negative
169. Kent Paul Dolan           Tree House Computer Consulting    Positive
170. Don Stevens               New York University               Negative
171. Louis Khazoyan            Self                              Negative
172. Peter Matthews            Charles Stark Draper Lab          Negative
173. Charles Wirtz             Self                              Negative
174. Russell Swim              John Deere Parts Distribution     Negative
175. Joseph Damico             Ohio State University             Negative
176. Richard Owen              Lawrence Berkeley Labs            Concern
177. Thomas Wittaker           University of Wisconsin           Negative
178. Bo Einarsson              University of Linkoping           Positive
179. K.H. Eagle                Boeing Helicopter                 Negative
180. Carl Malec                Boeing Advanced Systems           Negative
181. Denise George             Los Alamos Natl Lab               Negative
182. J. Gillies                British Aerospace                 Comments
183. Irene Cummings            Edinburgh University              Positive
184. G.W. Foster               Royal Aircraft                    Positive
185. Paul White                Meterological Office              Positive
186. K.C. Moore                Atomic Weapons                    Positive
187. P. Basnett                Teh Electricity Council           Positive
188. M. R. O'Donohoe           Computer Lab                      Negative
189. P. T. Wallace             Rutherford Appleton Lab           Positive
190. David Tilley              University of London              Positive
191. Paul Sandy                Exeter University                 Positive
192. Ken Peach                 University of Edinburgh           Positive
193. Tony J. Ibbs              Laser-Scan Labs                   Positive
194. M. G. Richardson          Symbolic and Information Syst.    Comments
195. Peter Jewell              Bradford University               Positive
196. Clive Page                University of Leicester           Positive
197. Tony Lynas-Gray           University College London         Positive
198. Stephen Hart              Imperial College                  Positive
199. Michael Denby             University of Leicester           Positive
200. Clive Hall                Edinburgh University              Comments
201. G.N. Lance                University of Bristol             Positive
202. Paul Lamb                 University College London         Positive
203. R. Wells                  Clarendon Lab                     Comments
204. J. B. Young               Seismic Data Centre               Negative
205. Andrew Harris             Z & S Consultants Limited         Negative
206. R. Wells                  Claredon Lab                      Positive
207. Thomas Dyott, etc. (8)    Analytical & Computer Apl.        Negative
208. Norman Turrill            Boeing Computer Services          Comments
209. Vaughn Gaither            Boeing Airplane Co.               Negative
210. Barry Schlesinger         ST Systems Corp                   Negative
211. Rober Mercer              Aerospace Corp                    Comments
212. Michael Kassay            Sidney Barbanel Consl. Engr.      Negative
213. Rochelle Lauer            Yale University                   Negative
214. D. S. Wahl                Boeing Computer Services          Negative
215. Malcom Gray               Self                              Negative
216. I. J. Clifton             Daresbury Lab                     Positive
217. Brian Ford, etc. (3)      Numerical Algorithms Group        Positive
218. James P. Sharkey          Self                              Negative
219. Donald Brown              Self                              Negative
220. William Walster           Lockheed MSC                      Comments
221. Ronald Bushyager          General Electric                  Negative
222. Kristi Keith, etc. (2)    GA Technologies, Inc.             Negative
223. David Garfinkel           University of Pennsylvania        Negative
224. James Bishop              University of Notre Dame          Negative
225. Authur Ragosta            Dept. of the Army                 Negative
226. I. Nakata                 Information Technology Standards  Comments
227. Tony Warnock              Cray Research                     Negative
228. Louis B Khazoyan          Self                              Negative
229. Hugh O'Neil               Posten Design Systems             Negative
230. Multiple                  Lawrence Livermore Labs           Negative
231. P. G. Saffman             California Institute of Tech.     Negative
232. Harold Naparst            Self                              Negative
233. Lynn Marple               Merit Technology, Inc.            Comments
234. D. T. Muxworthy           Edinburgh University              Positive
235. J. R. Hass, etc. (5)      M. W. Kellogg Co.                 Negative
236. James Balster             General Research Corp             Negative
237. William Goffe             University of Texas               Positive 
238. John E. George            Self                              Negative
239. Carole Sweeney            Rheem Mfg Co.                     Negative
240. Edward Cragg              George Mason University           Positive
241. Frank W. Guy              Los Alamos                        Negative 
242. Arthur Salwin             Self                              Negative 
243. Walter Aiello             University of Alberta             Positive
244. Eric Holcomb              Boeing Aerospace                  Negative
245. Guy Steele                Thinking Machines                 Comments
246. Jaylee Mead               NASA Space and Earth Sci...       Negative
247. Frank Marshall            CONVEX Computer Corp              Negative
248. Paul White                Meteorological Office             Positive
249. Arthur Hu                 Mosaic Software                   Negative
250. David Williams            Self                              Positive
251. Multiple                  National Nuclear                  Negative
252. Robert Stein              Michigan State University         Negative
253. Mark Israel               University of Alberta             Positive 
254. J.P. Johnson, Tom Butler  Texaco                            Comments
255. David Taylor              Honeywell                         Negative
256. Richard Curnow            Self                              Negative
257. Anne Gooding              Air Products Limited              Positive
258. J. J. Thresher            Eur. Org. for Nuclear Res.        Positive
259. T.M.R. Ellis              Computing Teaching Centre         Negative
260. Brian Ford, etc. (3)      Numerical Algorithms Group        Positive
261. Steven Rowan              Self                              Negative
262. William Reeder, etc. (2)  University of Texas               Negative
263. Ferenc Brodey             Computing Teaching Centre         Comments
264. Swarn Kumar               Boeing Computer Services          Negative
265. Alfred Garcia             Dept. of the Air Force            Positive
266. R. W. Plaseski            Enviroment Canada                 Comments
267. Mark Riordan              Self                              Negative
268. Bob Harbort               Southern College of Technology    Positive
269. Ted Holmes                Self                              Negative
270. Dennis DeMattia           Self                              Negative
271. Robert Berkowitz          Self                              Negative
272. Daniel Feenberg           National Bureau of Economic Res.  Negative
273. Carl Summersett           Self                              Comments
274. Richard Chaplin           Self                              Negative
275. Ron Brashear              Mobil Exploration                 Negative
276. William Leonard           Harris Corp                       Negative
277. Edmund Howard             Project One                       Negative
278. Thomas Aird, etc. (6)     IMSL                              Negative
279. Richard O'Shea            Self                              Negative
280. Richard Ragan             Control Data                      Comments
281. Anthony Wexler            Dept. of ME, Caltech              Positive
282. Paul Corbett              ELXSI                             Negative
283. William DiCecca           Self                              Comments
284. Thomas Tosch              Self                              Negative
285. Michael Weinreich         Self                              Positive
286. Paul White                Meteorological Office             Positive
287. Maurice LeBrun            University of Texas               Comments
288. John Burnett              Self                              Negative
289. Jack Pizante              Geophysical Service Inc           Negative
290. J.C. Mitchell             Self                              Negative
291. Ralph McMillan            Arco Oil and Gas                  Negative
292. John Polson               Self                              Negative
293. Gregory Fulton            Self                              Negative
294. G. Manning                Active Memory Technology          Negative
295. John Demel, etc. (6)      Ohio State                        Negative
296. Bob Allison (2nd let)     Microsoft                         Negative
297. Nelson Bye                Self                              Negative
298. Jack Balakirsky           NASA, Goddard                     Negative
299. William Gula              Los Alamos                        Comments
300. Michael Wolfe             Kuck and Associates               Negative
301. Alex Marusak, etc (40)    Los Alamos                        Negative
302. Patricia Swift            Computer Assistance               Comments
303. Fred Fritsch              Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab       Comments
304. F.W. Nagle                Department of Commerce            Comments
305. James Felty               Prime Computer                    Negative
306. Thomas Lahey              Lahey Computer Systems            Negative
307. John Romero               Los Alamos                        Negative
308. Frederick Klein           Boeing Computer Services          Negative
309. William Smith             US Dept of Commerce               Comments 
310. James Balster             General Research Corp             Negative
311. Robert Mercer             Aerospace Corporation             Comments
312. James Bishop              University of Notre Dame          Negative
313. Eric Holcomb              Boeing Aerospace                  Negative
314. Vaughn Gaither            Flight Systems Lab                Negative
315.  ============= Don't have +============
316. R.M. Rangayyan            University of Calgary             Concern
317. Ivor Philips              Boeing Computer Services          Negative
318. John Johnson              Boeing Computer Services          Negative
319. David Mattoon             Association of American Railroads Comments
320. Edward Reid               Self                              Positive
321. Scott Lamson              General Electric                  Positive
322. Wolfgang Walter, etc. (2) Universitat Karlsruhe             Comments
323. John Duncanson            University of Texas               Concern
324. Walter Brainerd           Unicomp                           Positive
325. A.J. Lyons                Winfrith Atomic Energy            Comments
326. Sharon J. Howard          Boeing Computer Services          Negative
327. Alan Miller               CSIRO Div of Math and Statistics  Positive
328. James Giles               Los Alamos                        Concern
329. Andrew Johnson            Prime                             Positive
330. Mary Anne Gray            IBM                               Negative
331. Dean L. Irwin             TASC-McLean                       Negative
332. J.D. Wilson               British Computer Society          Positive
333. Robert Bernstein          Southern Illinois Univ            Positive
334. Eric Zellin               Self                              Concern
335. Gerald Sommer             Self                              Positive
336. Jonathan Gispan, etc (4)  GE, Federal and Elec Syst Div     Comments
337. Michael Frazier           Self                              Negative
338. Jerry Berkman             Self                              Negative
339. Robert Knighten           Self                              Concerns
340. D.W. Bonnell              NBS-IMSE                          Negative
341. Philip Sweetenham         Hartwell Lab                      Positive
342. John Reid                 IFIP wg 2.5                       Positive
343. John Reid                 Harwell                           Comments
344. Peter Kirby, etc. (7)     UK Atomic Energy Authority        Concern
345. Theodore Sweetser         JPL                               Concern
346. Anthony Campassano        Self                              Negative
347. Tommaso Russo             Self                              Concern
348. Graham Warren             Canadian Standards Assoc          Comments
349. Ken Kennedy               Rice                              Negative
350. Steward Wilder            The Wyatt Company                 Positive
351. Joel Clinkenbeard (2)     Digital Equipment Corp.           Negative
352. Jay G. Scott              Self                              Negative
353. Andrew Tait               Amdahl                            Comments
354. Therese Barts             Los Alamos                        Positive 
355. Leonard Moss              Stanford University               Negative
356. William Long              University of Wisconsin           Positive
357. Steven Rogers             Whole Systems Support             Negative
358. David Hamaker             The Wollongong Group              Positive
359. Tom McDavid               Boeing                            Negative
360. David Kanter              TWA                               Concern
361. Steven Berman             Northrop Corp                     Negative
362. Stuart Nelan              Self                              Negative
363. Alan MacArthur            Self                              Negative
364. Bruce Martin              Self                              Comments
365. Joel Gilliland            Self                              Positive
366. Glenn Yoshioka            Self                              Negative
367. Tony Johnson              Stanford  University              Positive
368. Henry Todd                Brigham Young University          Comments
369. Ala Lester                Self                              Negative
370. James Almond              University of Texas               Positive
371. Richard Hendrickson       Self                              Positive 
372. Bill DeForeest            Self                              Negative
373. Leon Hill                 Boeing                            Negative
374. John McCalpin             Control Data Corp                 Negative
375. Mark Kiefer (3)           Sandia National Labs              Negative
376. Ehud Reiter               Harvard University                Negative
377. Alex Marusak              Los Alamos                        Concern 
378. Mark Blubaugh             Boeing                            Negative
379. Daniele Pelessone         GA Technologies                   Comments
380. A.D. Kennedy              Supercomputer Comp Res Inst.      Concern
381. James Carr                Supercomputer Comp Res Inst.      Concern
382. John Brown, etc. (13)     Amdahl                            Comments
383. Daniel Davison            Self                              Negative
384. Christopher Collins       Self                              Negative
385. M.S. Benson, etc. (3)     Air Products                      Positive
386. Jerold Wagener            AMOCO                             Positive
387. E. Jones                  Chevron Oil Field Res. Co.        Negative
388. David Hough               Self                              Comments
389. Julius Archibald          Plattsburgh State Univ            Positive
390. Geoff Croes               National Research Council         Comments
391. Nils Sjolund              AB Foretagssimulering             Negative
392. Edouard Lagache           Self                              Negative
393. Declan Rieb               Sandia                            Comments
394. Stuart Nelan              Self                              Negative
395. Tommaso Russo             Self                              Comments
396. Charles Hodge             Boyle Engineering Corp            Positive

jlg@a.UUCP (Jim Giles) (03/31/88)

Gee, the list correctly identifies my comments as 'concern'.
At least they're getting some things right.

J. Giles
Los Alamos

bobal@microsoft.UUCP (Bob Allison) (03/31/88)

In article <551@a.UUCP> jlg@a.UUCP (Jim Giles) writes:
>
>Gee, the list correctly identifies my comments as 'concern'.
>At least they're getting some things right.
>
>J. Giles
>Los Alamos

Except that Mr. Smith is not on the committee (was once, though, I believe).
A very succinct and informative list.  I've copied it and am going to 
take it to the next meeting if that is okay.  I only hope the committee
views the letters in approximately the same light.

"<click><click> There's no place like home...There's no place like home..."
(If only I could wake up back in Kansas right now)

Bob Allison

hirchert@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (04/01/88)

A few preliminary comments on the summary of the Fortran 8x public comment:
1. How did you get this info so fast?  I'm a member of X3J3, and I've only
   received about 3/4 of them.
2. How many of those negative letters were form letters?  In the letters
   received before the last X3J3 meeting (about 90), more than half of the
   negative comments (about 35) were form letters.
3. Some of the letters characterized as negative are from people I know to be
   generally in favor of 8x (although they have specific concerns about the
   current draft).
4. What did CBEMA do with my 42 page comment?  I wonder how many others are
   unaccounted for?

Kurt W. Hirchert     National Center for Supercomputing Applications

bobal@microsoft.UUCP (Bob Allison) (04/12/88)

In article <50500042@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> hirchert@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>A few preliminary comments on the summary of the Fortran 8x public comment:
>1. How did you get this info so fast?  I'm a member of X3J3, and I've only
>   received about 3/4 of them.
X3 members got them before we did: I assume he got his from them.  

>2. How many of those negative letters were form letters?  In the letters
>   received before the last X3J3 meeting (about 90), more than half of the
>   negative comments (about 35) were form letters.
Well, we're going to have this debate in the committee, but I'm willing
to debate it in public too.  First off, I challenge you to produce the
form letters.  If you include the ones which apparently were organized by
Convex, I doubt you would include #115, by Brian J. Christianson, 
which has as a quote "Are these folks really in the ball
game here or have they spent too much time programming in COBOL?"
(In other words, while a lot of letters have the same general form, but
many of them have very individual comments)  And besides, I do not believe
many of the other letters which were signed by more than one person 
(and therefore a "form letter") were illegitimate in any way.  We
can argue whether the people who signed the letters were given slanted
presentations of the standard, but that is a whole new ball game.

>3. Some of the letters characterized as negative are from people I know to be
>   generally in favor of 8x (although they have specific concerns about the
>   current draft).
I agree.  I'm trying to compile a list of specific examples, which I 
will send to Presley Smith along with a request to re-publish.  How
about you? In the mean time, let's avoid generalizations.  

>4. What did CBEMA do with my 42 page comment?  I wonder how many others are
>   unaccounted for?
>
From what I've heard it is a real mess.  There are 396 which made it
before the deadline, but Jeanne Adams (the chairperson of X3J3) has
about a hundred more which we should consider as well.  Potentially,
yours could be one of those hundred.

>Kurt W. Hirchert     National Center for Supercomputing Applications
(who, by the way, is hosting the next meeting.  It will be at the
University of Illinois, from May 9 to May 13, somewhere on campus.
I'm sure observers are welcome as long as they don't flood the place).

Bob Allison

psmith@convex.UUCP (04/14/88)

Here is a correction that I have received:


I am sorry to impose on you again, but two of the UK entries (183 and 200) are
incorrectly ascribed to Edinburgh University.  The correct entries are below. I
don't know how official the list is, but there are several inadequacies of
identification in the batch I forwarded from BSI (principally 182-206) and
corrected versions are shown below in case they are of use.  Note the balance of
positive and negative in this lot!
David
     
     
182. J. Gillies                British Aerospace                 Comments
183. Irene Cummings            Royal Aircraft Est, Farnborough   Positive
184. G.W. Foster               Royal Aircraft Est, Bedford       Positive
185. Paul White                Meterological Office              Positive
186. K.C. Moore                Atomic Weapons Est, Aldermaston   Positive
187. P. Basnett                The Electricity Council           Positive
188. M. R. O'Donohoe           Computer Lab, Cambridge Univ      Negative
189. P. T. Wallace             Rutherford Appleton Lab           Positive
190. David Tilley              University of London              Positive
191. Paul Sandy                Exeter University                 Positive
192. Ken Peach                 University of Edinburgh           Positive
193. Tony J. Ibbs              Laser-Scan Labs                   Positive
194. M. G. Richardson          NAG Ltd.                          Comments
195. Peter Jewell              Bradford University               Positive
196. Clive Page                University of Leicester           Positive
197. Tony Lynas-Gray           University College London         Positive
198. Stephen Hart              Imperial College                  Positive
199. Michael Denby             University of Leicester           Positive
200. Clive Hall                National Physical Laboratory      Comments
201. G.N. Lance                University of Bristol             Positive
202. Paul Lamb                 University College London         Positive
203. R. Wells                  Clarendon Lab, Oxford University  Positive
204. J. B. Young               Seismic Data Centre               Negative
205. Andrew Harris             Z & S Consultants Limited         Negative
206. R. Wells                  Clarendon Lab, Oxford University  Positive

 ++++

 In fact the ANSI transmittal form is wrong from #183 and my fingers
 got messed up on #200.  

 Please send any other corrections you may have.  This list is certainly
 NOT perfect...

psmith@convex.UUCP (04/14/88)

Since this debate is going on the net, I will add my 2 cents worth.

In article <50500042@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> hirchert@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>A few preliminary comments on the summary of the Fortran 8x public comment:
>1. How did you get this info so fast?  I'm a member of X3J3, and I've only
>   received about 3/4 of them.

I do in fact receive my input from the X3 organization.  As Bob Allison
states, they tend to get the information before the X3J3 organization
does.  

>2. How many of those negative letters were form letters?  In the letters
>   received before the last X3J3 meeting (about 90), more than half of the
>   negative comments (about 35) were form letters.

I'm afraid that ANSI rules don't distinguish between "form" letters and 
any other letter.  Each comment received must be treated as an individual
comment.  IBM certainly only has one vote on X3J3 just as a person on the 
committee who represents only himself and his interests has one vote. 
In a similar way, a letter from a group with many signatures only counts
as ONE comment.  Each comment is given a transmittal number by the 
X3 Secretariat and the committee must write exactly one response to 
each transmittal.  Just as IBM gets one vote, each letter, no matter how
many signers, must get equal treatment as one comment by the committee.
There are no procedures in the ANSI process for petitions, letters, etc.
signed by many people.      

Several groups held seminars on the subject.  Boeing, CONVEX, CERN, etc. 
In our seminar, we point out positive aspects of the proposed standard
and the negative aspects.   We also summarize the comments from IBM 
and others.  At the end, we encourage people to write to the committee
but we didn't control their comments.   We did in fact provide a summary
of things that we believed to be positive and things that we believed
to be negative.  Some of the "form" letters you see is a result of
people using those lists to write their individual letter.   Each 
individual wrote their own letter.   (I was disappointed that more
individuals who said they would write didn't!)

Over two thousand letters were received from the COBOL 8x public
review in 1981.  There was in fact a FORM letter and many of the responses
were exactly this form letter.  May people just copied the form letter on
the copier and typed in their name and company name...they didn't even
bother to retype it on their own letterhead or remove the top line
which was "MODEL..." shown below.

Here's what that letter said:


         	    MODEL LETTER FOR GENERAL OBJECTIONS


Chairman X3J4
etc.

"We are opposed to the subject dpANS, primarily because it is not upward
compatible with x3.23-1974 COBOL.  Programs that have been written in 
the current American National Standard should not have to be rewritten
simply to comply with a new COBOL Standard.

We reserve the right to comment at a later date on other techinical 
matters regarding dpANS x3.23-198X COBOL"
 
				   Very truly yours



				   _________________________


Now, that's a form letter... The English wasn't even good in it...
The committee had to answer all of them anyway...

>3. Some of the letters characterized as negative are from people I know to be
>   generally in favor of 8x (although they have specific concerns about the
>   current draft).
In my original note, I stated that I would take corrections.  I have 
just issued corrections received from one person.  Please have the 
individual that wrote the comment send me the correction.  I don't want
it second hand because then someone else's opinion gets added and 
might be wrong just as my opinion might be wrong.   Again,     

I WILL RE-PUBLISH ANY LEGITIMATE CORRECTIONS...


>4. What did CBEMA do with my 42 page comment?  I wonder how many others are
>   unaccounted for?
>
Officially, the committee does NOT have to look at any comment that 
came in after the cutoff date.  Bob is right, that could be a real
mess.  After the cutoff, letters can be considered as any other 
letter that comes directly to the committee.  But, the committee 
is certainly not bound in that case to follow the public review 
comment reply rules...  I'm sure this will be debated...