[comp.lang.fortran] S/ware distribution restrictions

trh@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (T.R.Hopkins) (06/01/88)

I have just read an advertisement from `The Matrix Calculating
Engine Inc' (MACE) of Wisconsin offering the LINPACK and EISPACK
Fortran Linear Algebra Packages for PC's. A footnote states that
both packages are on the Restricted Nuclear Technology Transfer List
and that distribution of the sources to many countries (I assume
Eastern Bloc) is restricted.

1) I thought that both LINPACK and EISPACK were in the Public Domain --
   can they be both PD and on the RNTTL list?

2) What other software is on this list and where do I get a copy of the
   list from?

3) What is the point of publishing the source codes in book form
  (i.e., The Linpack Users Guide and the Eispack volumes from
   Springer Verlag) and then restricting the distribution of machine
   readable form? Or are the books also on the list? Or can't the Russians
   type .... :-)

   Any information and comments would be welcome


   Tim

hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) (06/03/88)

>3) What is the point of publishing the source codes in book form
>  (i.e., The Linpack Users Guide and the Eispack volumes from
>   Springer Verlag) and then restricting the distribution of machine
>   readable form? Or are the books also on the list? Or can't the
>   Russians    type .... :-)

I bet there are errors in the listings just to fool those Commie
rascals. :-) :-) :-) :-)

mouse@mcgill-vision.UUCP (der Mouse) (06/04/88)

In article <5136@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, trh@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (T.R.Hopkins) writes:
> [...LINPACK and EISPACK...]  A footnote states that both packages are
> on the Restricted Nuclear Technology Transfer List and that
> distribution of the sources to many countries [...] is restricted.

> 1) I thought that both LINPACK and EISPACK were in the Public Domain
>    -- can they be both PD and on the RNTTL list?

This is the government.  They can do anything they please.  In this
sort of area, they don't even have to stay legal.  (I don't know
whether either package really is public domain.)

> 3) What is the point of publishing the source codes in book form
>    [...] and then restricting the distribution of machine readable
>    form?  Or are the books also on the list?  Or can't the Russians
>    type .... :-)

This is the government.  Don't expect it to make any sense.  As far as
I can see, these export restrictions make no sense whatever,
particularly when they attempt to place them on information instead of
physical objects.  An export restriction on a VAX (to pick an example)
is almost enforceable.  An export restriction on information, like
source code to LINPACK or EISPACK, is not.  If an "enemy" power
(particularly a large one like the USSR) wants a copy, they will not be
noticeably impeded by the restrictions; they serve only to hamper
nominally friendly entities attempting to obtain copies.  As far as I
can see, at least.

					der Mouse

			uucp: mouse@mcgill-vision.uucp
			arpa: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu

gwyn@brl-smoke.UUCP (06/05/88)

In article <1134@mcgill-vision.UUCP> mouse@mcgill-vision.UUCP (der Mouse) writes:
>As far as I can see, these export restrictions make no sense whatever,
>particularly when they attempt to place them on information instead of
>physical objects.  ...  If an "enemy" power (particularly a large one
>like the USSR) wants a copy, they will not be noticeably impeded by the
>restrictions; they serve only to hamper nominally friendly entities
attempting to obtain copies.

Exactly right.  Any important information that is available to the
American public gets snarfed up by the Soviet embassy, trade mission,
etc. and their agents and sent to the motherland.  I am sure they
already have LINPACK, EISPACK, etc.  It is only our "friends" who
cannot afford such information-gathering activities that are hampered
by the export regulations.

As another example of the harm caused by stupid rules like this, I am
required to direct foreign requestors of a BRL software package to
contact the U.S. embassy and request it through channels.  This takes
several months, typically, and risks getting the printed documentation
separated from the magnetic tape.  What many requestors have done in
such circumstances is to find a U.S.-based agent to act for them; the
agent makes the request then forwards the software overseas.  This is
obviously a waste of time and effort for all concerned, and the stupid
rules accomplish nothing at all useful.

Many government regulations are like this.  A possible problem is
identified, and instead of developing general principles to truly
address the real problem, Congress or a regulatory agency comes up
with "micro-engineered" regulations that simply don't allow for the
variety of situations that actually arise.

eugene@pioneer.arpa (Eugene N. Miya) (06/07/88)

This note was intercepted moments ago:
BEGIN MESSAGE:

>> [...LINPACK and EISPACK...]  A footnote states that both packages are
>> on the Restricted Nuclear Technology Transfer List and that
>> distribution of the sources to many countries [...] is restricted.
>
>This is the government.  They can do anything they please.

Ach!  Comrades!  Ve vill send netlib massage:
	send source from linpach
	send source from ice pack
from moscvax via kremvax and kgbvax thru nsavax.

END MESSAGE
Now, what does this have to do with Fortran?

Another gross generalization from

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov
  resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers:
  "Mailers?! HA!", "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology."
  {uunet,hplabs,ncar,ihnp4,decwrl,allegra,tektronix}!ames!aurora!eugene
  "Send mail, avoid follow-ups.  If enough, I'll summarize."
They are the phone company.  They can do anything.