trh@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (T.R.Hopkins) (06/01/88)
I have just read an advertisement from `The Matrix Calculating Engine Inc' (MACE) of Wisconsin offering the LINPACK and EISPACK Fortran Linear Algebra Packages for PC's. A footnote states that both packages are on the Restricted Nuclear Technology Transfer List and that distribution of the sources to many countries (I assume Eastern Bloc) is restricted. 1) I thought that both LINPACK and EISPACK were in the Public Domain -- can they be both PD and on the RNTTL list? 2) What other software is on this list and where do I get a copy of the list from? 3) What is the point of publishing the source codes in book form (i.e., The Linpack Users Guide and the Eispack volumes from Springer Verlag) and then restricting the distribution of machine readable form? Or are the books also on the list? Or can't the Russians type .... :-) Any information and comments would be welcome Tim
hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) (06/03/88)
>3) What is the point of publishing the source codes in book form > (i.e., The Linpack Users Guide and the Eispack volumes from > Springer Verlag) and then restricting the distribution of machine > readable form? Or are the books also on the list? Or can't the > Russians type .... :-) I bet there are errors in the listings just to fool those Commie rascals. :-) :-) :-) :-)
mouse@mcgill-vision.UUCP (der Mouse) (06/04/88)
In article <5136@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, trh@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (T.R.Hopkins) writes: > [...LINPACK and EISPACK...] A footnote states that both packages are > on the Restricted Nuclear Technology Transfer List and that > distribution of the sources to many countries [...] is restricted. > 1) I thought that both LINPACK and EISPACK were in the Public Domain > -- can they be both PD and on the RNTTL list? This is the government. They can do anything they please. In this sort of area, they don't even have to stay legal. (I don't know whether either package really is public domain.) > 3) What is the point of publishing the source codes in book form > [...] and then restricting the distribution of machine readable > form? Or are the books also on the list? Or can't the Russians > type .... :-) This is the government. Don't expect it to make any sense. As far as I can see, these export restrictions make no sense whatever, particularly when they attempt to place them on information instead of physical objects. An export restriction on a VAX (to pick an example) is almost enforceable. An export restriction on information, like source code to LINPACK or EISPACK, is not. If an "enemy" power (particularly a large one like the USSR) wants a copy, they will not be noticeably impeded by the restrictions; they serve only to hamper nominally friendly entities attempting to obtain copies. As far as I can see, at least. der Mouse uucp: mouse@mcgill-vision.uucp arpa: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
gwyn@brl-smoke.UUCP (06/05/88)
In article <1134@mcgill-vision.UUCP> mouse@mcgill-vision.UUCP (der Mouse) writes: >As far as I can see, these export restrictions make no sense whatever, >particularly when they attempt to place them on information instead of >physical objects. ... If an "enemy" power (particularly a large one >like the USSR) wants a copy, they will not be noticeably impeded by the >restrictions; they serve only to hamper nominally friendly entities attempting to obtain copies. Exactly right. Any important information that is available to the American public gets snarfed up by the Soviet embassy, trade mission, etc. and their agents and sent to the motherland. I am sure they already have LINPACK, EISPACK, etc. It is only our "friends" who cannot afford such information-gathering activities that are hampered by the export regulations. As another example of the harm caused by stupid rules like this, I am required to direct foreign requestors of a BRL software package to contact the U.S. embassy and request it through channels. This takes several months, typically, and risks getting the printed documentation separated from the magnetic tape. What many requestors have done in such circumstances is to find a U.S.-based agent to act for them; the agent makes the request then forwards the software overseas. This is obviously a waste of time and effort for all concerned, and the stupid rules accomplish nothing at all useful. Many government regulations are like this. A possible problem is identified, and instead of developing general principles to truly address the real problem, Congress or a regulatory agency comes up with "micro-engineered" regulations that simply don't allow for the variety of situations that actually arise.
eugene@pioneer.arpa (Eugene N. Miya) (06/07/88)
This note was intercepted moments ago: BEGIN MESSAGE: >> [...LINPACK and EISPACK...] A footnote states that both packages are >> on the Restricted Nuclear Technology Transfer List and that >> distribution of the sources to many countries [...] is restricted. > >This is the government. They can do anything they please. Ach! Comrades! Ve vill send netlib massage: send source from linpach send source from ice pack from moscvax via kremvax and kgbvax thru nsavax. END MESSAGE Now, what does this have to do with Fortran? Another gross generalization from --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: "Mailers?! HA!", "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology." {uunet,hplabs,ncar,ihnp4,decwrl,allegra,tektronix}!ames!aurora!eugene "Send mail, avoid follow-ups. If enough, I'll summarize." They are the phone company. They can do anything.