avr@CS-Mordred (Andrew V Royappa) (07/12/85)
I have a question about the movie "Terminator" which
I just saw on videotape.
The human who came thru the future (forget his name) to
save Sarah Connor from the Terminator said he couldn't bring
any appropriate weapons to kill the Terminator with because
the time travel method would only allow organic (living?)
matter to travel through time.
If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a
metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the
entire metal skeleton) came through time ?
Is this a flaw, or are we suppose to overlook this,
or what ?
I liked the film, by the way, this isn't a flame
about discrepancies - I'm just curious.
Andrew Royappa
{ihnp4, decvax, ucbvax, pur-ee}!purdue!avr
avr@purdue.EDUedw@ihopa.UUCP (Edwin Windes) (07/12/85)
> the time travel method would only allow organic (living?) > matter to travel through time. > > If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a > metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the > entire metal skeleton) came through time ? I believe they made an excuse for it right in the movie. Sarah asks essentially the same question, and our hero explains that it's o.k. because Arnold is enclosed in living tissue. (a tissue box?!) Don't blame me, I just watch 'em -- Edwin D. Windes ..!ihnp4!ihopa!edw AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Il "Are we having fun yet? ... wake me when it starts."
bright@dataio.UUCP (Walter Bright) (07/13/85)
In article <270@CS-Mordred> avr@CS-Mordred (Andrew V Royappa) writes: > The human who came thru the future (forget his name) to >save Sarah Connor from the Terminator said he couldn't bring >any appropriate weapons to kill the Terminator with because >the time travel method would only allow organic (living?) >matter to travel through time. > > If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a >metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the >entire metal skeleton) came through time ? I seem to remember that someplace in the movie they explained that the robot could do this because he was totally enclosed by living flesh.
jsc@sun.uucp (James Carrington) (07/15/85)
In article <270@CS-Mordred> avr@CS-Mordred (Andrew V Royappa) writes: > The human who came thru the future (forget his name) to >save Sarah Connor from the Terminator said he couldn't bring >any appropriate weapons to kill the Terminator with because >the time travel method would only allow organic (living?) >matter to travel through time. > If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a >metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the >entire metal skeleton) came through time ? > Is this a flaw, or are we suppose to overlook this, >>or what ? This question is actually asked by the police psycholgist, although you have to really pay attention to catch it. Kyle Reed (sp?) give some mumbo- jumbo answer like "It's surrounded by human flesh...I don't know tech stuff". In other words, they couldn't figure out a real answer. -- James Carrington SUN Microsystems Associate Engineer 2550 Garcia Ave. MS1-40 Workstation Division Mountain View CA 94043 Networking Department 415-960-7438
gordon@uw-june (Jamie Green) (07/16/85)
> > the time travel method would only allow organic (living?) > > matter to travel through time. > > > > If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a > > metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the > > entire metal skeleton) came through time ? > > I believe they made an excuse for it right in the movie. Sarah > asks essentially the same question, and our hero explains that it's o.k. > because Arnold is enclosed in living tissue. (a tissue box?!) Ah, but then why couldn't the human carry anything with him? He could have just packed anything he wanted in a container made of similar organic tissue (an alligator bag? :-) )... Yours for picking apart more movies, \ oo uucp: \____|\mm Jamie Green {ihnp4,decvax}!uw-beaver!uw-june!gordon //_//\ \_\ / / \/_/ The Great Green arpa: /___/_____\ Arkleseizure gordon@uw-june.arpa -----------
mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) (07/17/85)
> The human who came thru the future (forget his name) to > save Sarah Connor from the Terminator said he couldn't bring > any appropriate weapons to kill the Terminator with because > the time travel method would only allow organic (living?) > matter to travel through time. > If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a > metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the > entire metal skeleton) came through time ? I beleive they explained that (or maybe I imagined it) by saying that his (its) flesh covering allowed it to make the trip. I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? -- The opinions expessed above are -- or maybe they aren't... Mark Hamilton - Burroughs Advanced Systems Group Boulder, CO 80301 ihnp4!sdcsvax!bmcg!asgb!mah
kwc@cvl.UUCP (Kenneth W. Crist Jr.) (07/18/85)
> I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that > the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually > Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his > saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist If you go back and watch the movie again, you should realize that Kyle is the father of John Conner. When Kyle talks about John's birth, he says that his father was unknown, but later when Sarah stops at the gas station to get her picture taken (the same one that Kyle has) she is pregnant with John. A state she was not in when the movie started. Kenneth Crist Computer Vision Lab University of Maryland
markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar) (07/18/85)
In article <736@asgb.UUCP> mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) writes: >I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his >saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist >to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in >time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely >interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? I thought they made it fairly clear that her son specifically aranged that his father was sent back. The son gave him a picture (the one taken by the kid at the gas station at the end) and told him stories about her so he fell in love with her. Mark Biggar {allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,akgua,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!markb
jmd@rduxb.UUCP (Joseph M. Dakes) (07/18/85)
> > If that's so, how come the Terminator who's a > > metal robot with some flesh over him (we later see the > > entire metal skeleton) came through time ? > I beleive they explained that (or maybe I imagined it) by saying that his > (its) flesh covering allowed it to make the trip. That's right. Conan was an advanced syborg(sp?), blood, sweat, bad breath and everything else. > I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that > the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually > Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his > saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist > to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in > time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely > interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? Actually, Kyle Reese, was John Connor's (Sarah's son) father. Remember when Kyle and Sarah hid out in a motel for awhile? They began to talk about their personal lives and Sarah asked Kyle "did you ever, you know?" He timidly said "with a woman? No." Then they, well, you know... > Mark Hamilton - Burroughs Advanced Systems Group > Boulder, CO 80301 > ihnp4!sdcsvax!bmcg!asgb!mah Joseph M. Dakes AT&T Bell Laboratories Reading, PA rduxb!jmd P.S. Has anyone heard rumors about a Terminator II? If you recall at the end, one of the skeletal arms was left intact. Could it rebuild itself and search for Sarah one more time? Might not be a bad sequel.
jordan@greipa.UUCP (Jordan K. Hubbard) (07/19/85)
In article <736@asgb.UUCP> mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) writes: >I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his >saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist >to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in >time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely >interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? > No, that's not possible because her son was the one that led the resistance movement. Kyle (the man from the future) was one of his soldiers (presumably his right-hand man, to be entrusted with her picture). He always loved her (Sarah) because she was sort of a hero to all of the future fighters, having raised her son the way she did. He also describes her son to her in the movie in the the third person. (Besides, if you were the leader of the resistance movement, would you be allowed to go galavanting off into the past?) Nope, Kyle's her son's father.. Not her son. -- Jordan K. Hubbard @ Genstar Rental Electronics. Palo Alto, CA. {pesnta, decwrl, dual, pyramid}!greipa!jordan "ack pfffft. gag. retch. barf.. ack" - Bill again.
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (07/19/85)
In article <736@asgb.UUCP> mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) writes: >I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >Sarah's son? They make it pretty clear that's he's NOT. Her son was JOHN CONNOR, the "human who came back" was KYLE REESE. He volunteered to protect JOHN'S MOTHER. The plot twist was that when he volunteered, he didn't know he was JOHN'S FATHER. Grr. See the movie again. -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX "Don't get bogged down with details, just eat the stupid peice of paper." -Rev. Wang Zeep
terryl@tekcrl.UUCP () (07/19/85)
>I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his >saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist >to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in >time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely >interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? Kyle Reese, the human who came back through the future, WASN'T Sarah's son!!! He was the father of Sarah's son who organized all of the people in the future. They (whoever made the Terminator) thought that by sending the Terminator back in time to kill Sarah, so she couldn't have her son, and thus killing off the organizer.
goldsten@uiucdcsb.Uiuc.ARPA (07/20/85)
I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? ********* Not possible since we already know who Sarah's son is.
throopw@rtp47.UUCP (Wayne Throop) (07/20/85)
(refering to the time-travel restrictions in "The Terminator") > Ah, but then why couldn't the human carry anything with him? He could have > just packed anything he wanted in a container made of similar organic > tissue (an alligator bag? :-) )... > Jamie Green {ihnp4,decvax}!uw-beaver!uw-june!gordon An aligator bag is not living tissue, and *living* tissue is specifically called for. They didn't have time to (for example) surgically implant weapons in the human time-traveler, since they had to dump him into the past quickly (for some glossed over reason that was mentioned in the police interview). The logical thing to do would be for him to swallow a weapon, and regurgitate it upon arrival. Either the rebels (or the writers) forgot that possibility, or it wouldn't work for some "technical" reason, such as the fact that things in the digestive tract are topologically outside the body, or maybe weapons capable of taking out a Terminator are too big to swallow. (refering to a possible time loop) > I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that > the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually > Sarah's son? > Mark Hamilton ihnp4!sdcsvax!bmcg!asgb!mah It was specifically stated that he was *not* Sarah's son, but that Sarah's son selected him for the assignment (and was the leader of the rebel forces). You folks *saw* this movie didn't you? :-) -- Wayne Throop at Data General, RTP, NC <the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!rtp47!throopw
metcalf@ucbmiro.ARPA (Chris Metcalf) (07/20/85)
In article <413@mit-vax.UUCP> csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) writes: >In article <736@asgb.UUCP> mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) writes: >>I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >>the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >>Sarah's son? > >They make it pretty clear that's he's NOT. Her son was JOHN CONNOR, the >"human who came back" was KYLE REESE. He volunteered to protect JOHN'S >MOTHER. The plot twist was that when he volunteered, he didn't know he >was JOHN'S FATHER. Grr. See the movie again. *** SPOILER *** Well, when I saw the movie I also wondered whether Kyle was really John. Something about the way he says to Sarah (under the bridge), "about my height...". But, when Kyle died, I decided that it was probably coincidence... my feeling is that an Oedipal hero would not have died, but rather ended up with Sarah. Still, it's a good question... Can anyone else think of anything which would make Kyle = John ? -- Chris Metcalf (metcalf@ucbmiro.BERKELEY) ...!ucbvax!ucbmiro!metcalf
allynh@ucbvax.ARPA (Allyn Hardyck) (07/22/85)
In article <2168@sdcrdcf.UUCP> markb@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Mark Biggar) writes: >In article <736@asgb.UUCP> mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) writes: >>I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >>the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >>Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his >>saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist >>to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in >>time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely >>interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? > >I thought they made it fairly clear that her son specifically aranged that >his father was sent back. The son gave him a picture (the one taken >by the kid at the gas station at the end) and told him stories about >her so he fell in love with her. I think most of you are missing the point of the guy's original posting. He knows what the *plot* seemingly said, but wouldn't it be cool if the guy were not only Sarah's son's father but *also* Sarah's son, by some past or future time-travel a la Heinlein's "All You Zombies". Note how the original poster uses the term "subtle" several times, and again how the majority of respondents ignore this and go for the obvious - like thinking Kelvin's reviews are for real.
joel@peora.UUCP (Joel Upchurch) (07/23/85)
>Well, when I saw the movie I also wondered whether Kyle was really >John. Something about the way he says to Sarah (under the bridge), >"about my height...". But, when Kyle died, I decided that it was >probably coincidence... my feeling is that an Oedipal hero would not >have died, but rather ended up with Sarah. Still, it's a good >question... Can anyone else think of anything which would make Kyle = >John ? I think it is rather clear from Kyle's flashbacks (flashforwards?) that he was a regular foot soldier in the war against the machines and not the leader of the revolt. I tend to wonder about what kind of man John Connor was. It must take a certain kind of ruthlessness to send to your own father off on what you know is a suicide mission. But then any other sort of man probably wouldn't have won the war.
m1b@rayssd.UUCP (M. Joseph Barone) (07/23/85)
> Well, when I saw the movie I also wondered whether Kyle was really John. > Something about the way he says to Sarah (under the bridge), "about my > height...". But, when Kyle died, I decided that it was probably > coincidence... my feeling is that an Oedipal hero would not have died, but > rather ended up with Sarah. Still, it's a good question... Can anyone else > think of anything which would make Kyle = John ? Here are some observations why Kyle <> John. In one of Reese's "flash-forwards", presumably his first encounter with a Terminator, he has just returned from some type of mission. No one treats him preferentially; he just goes off and sits. I would think that the leader of all humanity would get some form of salute -- remember, he was in a military unit under Perry. Also, would someone that important go out and risk his life just to blow up a couple tanks? Joe Barone, {allegra, decvax!brunix, linus, ccice5}!rayssd!m1b Raytheon Co, Submarine Signal Div., Box 330, Portsmouth, RI 02871
lmv@houxa.UUCP (L.VANDERBILT) (07/24/85)
joel@peora.UUCP (Joel Upchurch) writes: >I tend to wonder about what kind of man John Connor was. It >must take a certain kind of ruthlessness to send to your own >father off on what you know is a suicide mission. But then >any other sort of man probably wouldn't have won the war. he's a man who would never have been born if he didn't send his father back...
mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) (07/25/85)
> > I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that > > the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually > > Sarah's son? ... > > Actually, Kyle Reese, was John Connor's (Sarah's son) father. ... > > Joseph M. Dakes > I guess I need to clarify my theory. I have received several replies saying that Kyle explained the situation at various points in the film. I realize this, and remember his explainations, but consider this: If you were from the future, and were your own father (thus you have to get to know your mother or you don't exist) would you come out and tell her, "Hi, I'm your son, let's do it"? I got the feeling that his whole story was a ploy on his part so that she could deal with the situation. Comments on this? -- The opinions expessed above are -- or maybe they aren't... Mark Hamilton - Burroughs Advanced Systems Group Boulder, CO 80301 ihnp4!sdcsvax!bmcg!asgb!mah
training@rtech.UUCP (Training account) (07/26/85)
> I have another question about this film (The Terminator). Does anybody else > believe that the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) > was actually Sarah's son? My roommate claims that the whole picture was a ripoff of a French film from the 60's, called "La Jete" (spelling??); and that in "La Jete", the son does fall in love with his mother. I haven't seen the film, so I can't provide more details. Sorry. Robert Orenstein Relational Technology
fisher@aero.ARPA (Ted Fisher ) (07/27/85)
Neglecting the obvious paradox about being your own son, I'd say it is biologically (nearly) impossible. Johhny gets half his chromosomes from Sarah, and half from Kyle, and the odds of that combination resulting in Kyle's original set are quite astronomical, but... By the way, in the similar occurrance in All You Zombies, mom, dad, and daughter are ALL the same person. But that is another story...
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (07/27/85)
In article <740@asgb.UUCP> mah@asgb.UUCP (Mark Hamilton) writes: >If you were from >the future, and were your own father (thus you have to get to know your >mother or you don't exist) would you come out and tell her, "Hi, I'm your >son, let's do it"? True enough, but Kyle didn't try very hard to seduce Sarah. In fact, after he blurted "I love you.. ect." he got angry at himself. It was Sarah who initiated the love scene from there. I think it would be going a little too far for Kyle (aka, in your theory, John) to have known that scene in the past well enough to re-enact it. -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX Wang Zeep:"Lord Fred, how can I show them you are the True God?" Lord Fred:"Because I said I am." Wang Zeep:"Seriously." Lord Fred:"Look, it works for every other religion."
zeke@dartvax.UUCP (Edward M. Zebrowski) (08/02/85)
> > I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that > the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually > Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his > saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist > to the story (I know, the twist is back in the category of causality in > time travel stories, but I think it was left subtle enough to be merely > interesting, and not trite). Anybody else think this is or isn't possible? > Yes, I think that this is quite possible, because the photograph that the mexican guy took of her in the jeep (when she was pregnant) was the same one that the "human who came through the future" always carried with him. Also, in the taperecording that she was making, didn't she make some allusion to what her son would be like when he grew up (i.e. the very description of the "human who came thru the future"?) Please correct me if I'm wrong. Ed Zebrowski "Don't go to bed with your roof on fire--it won't be there when you wake up."
richr@iddic.UUCP (Rich Rodgers) (08/09/85)
In article <3420@dartvax.UUCP> zeke@dartvax.UUCP (Edward M. Zebrowski) writes: >> >> I have another question about this film. Does anybody else beleive that >> the "human who came thru the future" (I forget his name too) was actually >> Sarah's son? There seemed to be several subtle references to it like his >> saying he has always loved her. This would add a really interesting twist No this is not true. In the movie the human who came thru the future is a friend of Sarah's son. They are fighting together to save the world against the fighting robots (Arnold S.). Sarah's son is the leader of the revolution and therefore could not afford to leave his army to kill the Terminator. >Yes, I think that this is quite possible, because the photograph that the >mexican guy took of her in the jeep (when she was pregnant) was the same one >that the "human who came through the future" always carried with him. Also, Sarah's son gave the picture to the man because it was the only thing he had that showed what his mother looked like. If he did not have the picture he would not have known who to save. The man also tells Sarah that he knows little about Sarah's sons father. ( Who is the man that came from the future ) >in the taperecording that she was making, didn't she make some allusion to >what her son would be like when he grew up (i.e. the very description of the >"human who came thru the future"?) Please correct me if I'm wrong. She knows the description of her son because the man told her what her son would become... the leader of the revolution. would become... The leader of the revolution. NOT THE MAN WHO CAME FROM THE FUTURE!!! > Ed Zebrowski > >"Don't go to bed with your roof on fire--it won't be there when you wake up." Hope I could help! Rich Rodgers