ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/03/90)
Date: 05-02-90 (00:31) Number: 3181 (Echo)
To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: 3178
From: MICHAEL HOBSON Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Since I am not a member of FIG, it is probably not my place to comment
on this; but since this is a public forum in a country where the public
is allowed to comment freely, I choose to do so.
Is FIG the sort of organization where everything MUST take place in
absolute secrecy? Do you suppose that JAX will be permanently disbarred
for making known the fact that he is under attack from somewhere in the
organization? Perhaps one of the as yet invisible FIG Gods will deign
to enlighten us as to the true nature of this matter.
"The Elf" [^]-[^]
\---/
Elf - A wise (?) and helpful variety of magical being.
*** Don't listen to me ... I have a stupid tagline! ***
-----
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Date: 05-01-90 (07:47) Number: 161 (Echo)
To: JERRY SHIFRIN Refer#: NONE
From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
I'd love to Jerry ... any objections, Dennis?
=jax=
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
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Category 8, Topic 24 Message 7 Wed May 02, 1990 D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 23:57 EDT As I have said already Jack, I do not care to discuss this matter in public, and I should also point out that I am not the one who is suggesting that you did anything wrong. Michael, no, I do not feel that FIG business should be conducted in secrecy, and I encourage open discussion about anything that is on your mind. However, when the matter requires disciplinary action, the Rules of Order require those discussions to be carried on in private and formal charges brought against the person before the members of the organization. In a case such as this, where the persons in question are representatives of FIG and the result of this process would be the removal of privilages granted by the Board of Directors, then I claim that it is not a matter for public debate. I initiated this discussion in private, but Jack has choosen to make it public. I assure you all, that this matter will be resolved by the Board of Directors, and that our decision will be made public. However, until we, as a group, have heard the charges and made a decision as to their validity, I will not discuss the matter in public. Thank you for your concern. DaR ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/04/90)
Date: 05-02-90 (08:07) Number: 3188 (Echo) To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: NONE From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Jack, this is a matter that should absolutely be talked about in privat This is a matter to be talked about in public. After listening to JD HALL in December, and you for years, and seeing what we see about FIG, I came to the conclusion that FIG was in deep doo-doo. >and I wish I was online yesterday so that I could have killed this topi >before it got spread. However, since you have chosen to take it public >will confirm that you have been placed on suspension. However, I have >heard the charges myself and I will not attempt to justify them here. Dennis, you know that you and I agree about what's wrong with FIG. We just disagree about what to do about them. >personally do not find anything you have done justification for this ac >and I have no intention of shutting you up. I was merely informing you >what I'm sure some wish had been kept quiet. "This is the way FIG ends, not with a bang, but a whimper." :-) >If you insist on carrying on the discussion here, I >you that you will loose whatever good will you do have. This IS NOT a >matter, but something that can only be dealt with in private session by >Board of Directors. I will gladely carry on this discussion in private >but until it is resolved, I do not care to respond here further. Well, Dennis, if shitcanning me will help FIG, so be it. On the other hand, a good controversy might liven things up! =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/04/90)
Date: 05-02-90 (17:52) Number: 3189 (Echo)
To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: NONE
From: MICHAEL HOBSON Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
One more thing I forgot to ask you in my previous posting about this
subject: Are the rumors about a FIG star chamber true? And are you a
regularly attending member? :->
"The Elf" [^]-[^]
\---/
Elf - A wise (?) and helpful variety of magical being.
*** Don't listen to me ... I have a stupid tagline. ***
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
-----
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Category 8, Topic 24 Message 10 Thu May 03, 1990 D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 23:20 EDT Michael, what is this "FIG star chamber" supposed to be? I have not heard the rumor so I can neither confirm nor deny it. Unfortunately, even living as close as I do, it is still near impossible for me to be "a regular attending member" of the FIG Business Group. Last weeks meeting cost me a vacation day and 23.5 hours of my life. DaR ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/06/90)
Date: 05-04-90 (00:58) Number: 3200 (Echo)
To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: 3198
From: MICHAEL HOBSON Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Very well, so long as when a decision is rendered, the charges are made
plain as well. I do apologize for bull-baiting you with some of my
other remarks, here. I have chatted with JAX (he is sympathetic to
my proposed Dolphin Speech Project, so we chat on his board sometimes)
and he has gently pointed out that you are dedicated and trying to be
fair; therefore, my snide comments are unjust and ill-concieved and I
hereby publicly retract them
"The Elf" [^]-[^]
\---/
Elf - A wise (until recently) and helpful variety of magical being.
-----
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Date: 05-03-90 (15:28) Number: 3201 (Echo)
To: MICHAEL HOBSON Refer#: NONE
From: JACK WOEHR Read: 05-03-90 (22:32)
Subj: CHAP. COORD. SUSPENDED! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Michael ---
I appreciate your support.
The thing to remember here is that there are no "bad guys"
in this situation ... just people who want the best for FIG and
other people who think FIG is already doing its best.
There are many ways that FIG could be doing its primary job ...
promoting FORTH ... better than it does now. I happen to have come
up with a few ideas. One of them happened to be to tell the members
that FIG was foundering under the "ancien regime". This naturally
pissed off the Board, since it was unfortunately and coincidentally
the truth.
=jax=
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
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Date: 05-03-90 (22:32) Number: 3202 (Echo)
To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: NONE
From: MICHAEL HOBSON Read: NO
Subj: CHAP. COORD. SUSPENDED! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Ok, so I am too reactionary and ill-informed. I humbly apologize to any
I may have unjustly offended. By the way, thanx for the encouraging
chat Re: the Dolphin Speech Project and other matters.
"The Elf" [^]-[^]
\---/
Elf - a wise (?) and helpful variety of magical being.
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
-----
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Date: 05-04-90 (06:44) Number: 3204 (Echo) To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: 3198 From: STEVE PALINCSAR Read: NO Subj: FIG Secrecy Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE You know, Dennis, one of the big problems FIG has had in the past few years has been exactly this - a great desire for secrecy, protected by self-generated rules demanding it. For example, where the h*** is the financial report I first asked for over a year ago? Still being debated in secret, while the star chamber decides upon a suitable "format." Same for this case, I fear. So JAX is smartass with a mouth as big as the great outdoors. We all knew this within the first 15 seconds of his first appearance on ForthNET! Should this be a surprise to FIG? So what did he do? Surely it couldn't have been any more heinous than we'd expect of a Member of Congress, or perhaps a Mayor of a national capital? And we can surely read about them... ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/07/90)
Date: 05-04-90 (12:48) Number: 3207 (Echo)
To: MICHAEL HOBSON Refer#: NONE
From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO
Subj: CHAP. COORD. SUSPENDED! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Thanx for your support, Michael! I just didn't want to give
the impression I thought the "powers that be" of FIG were SOB's :-)
I just think they don't appreciate what FIG could be doing for the
promotion of Forth.
=jax=
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
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Date: 05-05-90 (01:28) Number: 3208 (Echo)
To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: NONE
From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
By the way, Dennis, do you mind if I give the addresses
of the FIG Chapters to SIGForth? They're up to 500 members. George
Shaw would like the addresses. He tells me that FIG views itself
as being in competition with SIGForth and so resists sharing the
mailing list.
I think that's ridiculous, Dennis. What you say we give him
the mailing list before FIG's paranoia gets *too* rampant?
THIS WEEK'S QUOTATION from Chairman =jax= ..........
"Don't let interorganizational rivalry get in the way of
promoting Forth! All power to the inner interpreter! All power
to the Technical Committee of X3J14! Hail Moore!"
}jax{
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
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Date: 05-05-90 (13:00) Number: 3210 (Echo) To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: 3208 From: JERRY SHIFRIN Read: NO Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE JW>of the FIG Chapters to SIGForth? They're up to 500 members. George JW>Shaw would like the addresses. He tells me that FIG views itself JW>as being in competition with SIGForth and so resists sharing the JW>mailing list. Just out of curiousity, is SIGForth willing to give FIG a copy of its mailing list? --- ~ EZ 1.26 ~ ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/07/90)
Date: 05-04-90 (09:51) Number: 3211 (Echo) To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: NONE From: JONAH THOMAS Read: NO Subj: CHAP. COORD. SUSPENDED! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Mr. Woehr responded to his suspension by calling for the >resignation of the Board of Directors of the Forth Interest >Group. "They're a great bunch and great programmers, but they have >proved their inability to run a modern professional association," It's clear there's a problem here. And it's clear you don't have a solution. Self-selected groups can do a great job. If they stop doing a great job, it isn't obvious what to do about it. They have the chance to work together smoothly, and if they lose their direction, well, does it really help to bring in people who CAN'T work smoothly with them? When it happens, it's a problem. People don't generally like controversy. When it comes up, most people go away and the ones who're attracted tend to be the ones who like a good fight more than they want results. Your challenge to FIG is a clear sign that something is wrong, but it isn't part of the solution, it's just a warning to others to stay away. It makes it harder to find a solution, if there's anybody looking. There may BE no solution. Maybe we should let FIG fold and join FORTH-SIG or whatever. But it's clear that if you can't work with them, it won't help to work against them. By the time you win, there won't be anything left worth having. Do we need an organization with a glossy-cover magazine? Less than 5 years ago. You could post your articles on Genie, and I could download the ones I wanted cheaper than buying FD. But it doesn't work to get rid of FD and have a magazineless FIG, either. A lot of the problem comes because we don't quite know what we're doing. When everybody thinks you're doing something that works, it's easier to approve. When it looks like it isn't working, their doubts reinforce yours. If we find a really workable direction, we can build an organization to further it. the organization can be part of FIG or not, whichever is more convenient. I see a central problem with Forth, that it doesn't come naturally to americans who watch TV. I tried teaching Forth to some bright high-school students. They'd picked up Basic in about a month (except for the file-handling, which they never got). After 6 weeks of Forth, the brightest of them went back to Basic. The system never crashed with Basic, they never did strange things they couldn't at all understand, they could keep all the instructions in their heads at once. They wrote long involved buggy programs with no comments, and tracked down the problems by running their programs over and over and looking for the obvious solutions to obvious problems. (The subtle problems mostly didn't even get found.) They were happy with it. They hated using a stack. They hated having to declare variables. They hated having the IF THEN ELSE be backward. They never found out how wonderful it was. Maybe if we taught forth in grade school.... --- * Via ProDoor 3.1 NET/Mail : The MATRIX (5 Nodes/1.2 Gig) Birmingham, AL (205) 323-2016 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/07/90)
Category 8, Topic 24 Message 19 Sun May 06, 1990 D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 18:57 EDT Jack, the FIG mailing list is the property of FIG and the come under the province of the Business Group. We have both sold it and exchanged it with others in the past. We have also had to purchase mailing lists from others. Since I am not aware of George's request, I can not comment on the specifics of it. However, 500 address in exchange for a couple of thousand does not appear to be a very good trade. Especially when there is (very likely) quite a bit of overlap between the two lists. There does seem to be quite a lot of competitive tendancies between George Shaw and FIG, but I do not think the FIG Board of Directors views the ACM SIGForth group as competitors. I personally, would like to see us work very close together, and I can think of many ways we can benifit each other. However, this does not mean placing all of FIG resources at the disposal of ACM for free. I would expect some exchange to be worked out first. Let not the promotion of Forth get in the way of the responsible business management of FIG. All power to the programmer! DaR ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/09/90)
Category 8, Topic 24 Message 21 Mon May 07, 1990 DANMILLER [dr. dan] at 23:15 CDT No dark secret. ACM SIGFORTH was started to promote Forth. Not in competition with FIG but to address a different market. To reach the computer establishment and gain some programming jobs. We tried linking to IEEE but that is very difficult for a small group. The ACM has been very hospitable. The link to ACM gives us a presence and mature stature. We will be hosting our annual conference next year in San Antonio to coincide with and draw attendees from the ACM SIGCSE (computer science education conference ) whose attendees number in the several thousands! hopefully a few will drop by the Forth conference. Sigforth is volunteer and has the manpower shortage/volunteer shortage any volunteer group has, exacerbated by the small number of active forth programmers. I think fig does and has done a good job. (jax, raspberries) . Sigforth has been attempting to reach out in a different direction, not in competition, but for the same end. I might add, that so far its not been any more sucessful than FIG. but hopefully the effects of the two groups will be cumulative. ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/09/90)
Date: 05-07-90 (08:13) Number: 3218 (Echo) To: RAY DUNCAN Refer#: NONE From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO Subj: CHAP. COORD. SUSPENDED! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Now perhaps you are beginning to understand why I gave up on FIG many >years ago. It simply isn't relevant to anyone who has to live & work i >the real world. > It's tempting just to agree, but as a United States Chess Federation Expert, I've watched US Chess go through a similar battle. The final outcome was pretty much what we see here: The professional chessplayers formed their own association, but still participated in the US Chess Federation. The difference is that US Chess got a grip on itself and got really rolling on promoting chess to the dilletante. FIG could still do some mighty things to promote Forth if it got off its duff. :-) =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/09/90)
Date: 05-07-90 (08:16) Number: 3219 (Echo) To: JERRY SHIFRIN Refer#: NONE From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >JW>of the FIG Chapters to SIGForth? They're up to 500 members. George >JW>Shaw would like the addresses. He tells me that FIG views itself >JW>as being in competition with SIGForth and so resists sharing the >JW>mailing list. > >Just out of curiousity, is SIGForth willing to give FIG a copy of >its mailing list? Sounds fair, we can offer quid-pro-quo! All Geo. S. was asking for was chapter leader addresses, BTW> =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/29/90)
Date: 05-27-90 (00:06) Number: 3279 (Echo) To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: 3246 From: JERRY SHIFRIN Read: NO Subj: OPEN LETTER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Well, it's been a couple of weeks now, Jack. So what's the story? Are you still suspended? Do you know why? Any changes? I liked your FD column BTW -- my reading is that of the four chapters you mention, all are inactive. True? Is that the general situation? Is it time to close up shop? --- ~ EZ 1.29 ~ ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/29/90)
Category 8, Topic 24
Message 35 Mon May 28, 1990
D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 15:02 EDT
FYI, here is the text of the letter that I delivered to Jack at last week's
ANS Forth meeting in Florida:
Dear Jack,
This letter is to inform you that your appointment as the Forth Interest Group
Chapter Coordinator has been terminated. This action was taken by the Forth
Interest Group Board of Directors at its meeting of May 11, 1990.
Matters relating to chapter activities should now be referred to the Chapter
Desk, Forth Interest Group Business, P.O. Box 8231, San Jose, CA 95155.
Thank you for your dedication to chapter activities and for your support of
the Forth Interest Group.
Sincerely,
Robert R. Reiling
President, Forth Interest Group
-----
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Date: 05-28-90 (20:23) Number: 3287 (Echo) To: JERRY SHIFRIN Refer#: NONE From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO Subj: OPEN LETTER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Well, it's been a couple of weeks now, Jack. So what's the >story? Are you still suspended? Do you know why? Any changes? > I'm *fired* ... no charges, no hearing. If FORTHNET is still linked to USENET, the story ought to be wending your way shortly ... let me know if we are *disconnected* currently from USENET in which case I'll upload my latest posting to FORTHNET. At least the FIG Board had a MEETING ... its FIRST in OVER A YEAR ... just to can yours truly! The good news is that Dennis *swears* elections are happening. Of course, he is also one of the three Board members that guaranteed me a hearing .. :-) >I liked your FD column BTW -- my reading is that of the four >chapters you mention, all are inactive. True? Is that the >general situation? Is it time to close up shop? No, the HOUSTON chapter was still lively, and one other was still meeting. I called others and there are indeed lively chapters. Boston, Denver, Great Lakes ... others. NO it is NOT time to fold up shop. It *is* time for new management, however! =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/31/90)
Category 8, Topic 24 Message 37 Wed May 30, 1990 GARY-S at 06:13 EDT Subject: Open letter In a reply to Jerry Shifrin Jack Woehr writes: > If FORTHNET is still linked to USENET, the story ought >to be wending your way shortly ... let me know if we are >*disconnected* currently from USENET in which case I'll upload >my latest posting to FORTHNET. ForthNet and USENET are still very linked. I (gars) have lost my feed and Doug's was broke; but the c.l.f. news was picked up directly from UUNET. If the post is there, it will winnow its way onto ForthNet. gars@glsrk (curreently disconnected) ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (05/31/90)
Category 8, Topic 24 Message 39 Wed May 30, 1990 D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 22:02 EDT Re: jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) > No hearing, as promised by Dennis Ruffer I don't remember promising Jax, but I did ask for for you to be heard. However, we had already heard your opinion (from your postings) and it is not as if we kicked you out of FIG (which would require a hearing). All we did was vote to terminate the appointment that we had given you earlier. > the WHOLE BOARD is going up for election Not quite Jax. Jack Brown and Mike Elola's terms have not expired yet and they will be continuing their positions. John Hall, Wil Baden, Robert Smith and my own 3 year positions are over at the end of this year, and Terry Sutton has already resigned (she just got married and didn't have enough time any more). Since there would be 5 vacancies at the end of this year, the elections would have been held anyway. All I have done is suggest that we ask the FIG members to submit petitions and tell them what it takes to have have a ballot of the members. The full details will appear in the July/August issue of Forth Dimensions and I will open up the discussions on the Net soon. In the mean time, the nominating committee has been formed, consisting of Jack Brown and Mike Elola, and they are in charge of the process. DaR ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (06/01/90)
Category 8, Topic 24 Message 40 Thu May 31, 1990 W.FEDERICI [W.FEDERICI] at 20:24 PDT As a FIG member whose main activity is paying the yearly dues and reading FD, I'm sure my opinions are of no interest whatsoever to the members of the board, but... . I am truly curious why all this verbage over the matter of Mr. Woehr's termination with nary the tiniest hint of a reason for the board's decision, just to put the matter to rest for us outsiders. (Oh dear me, is there any chance I have unintentionally done something that might offend the board and get me dismissed as a member? Who can tell?) . (Actually, my suspicion is that Mr. Woehr's manner is simply too abrasive, or his attitudes too "sixties" to meld with the rest of the board -- this would be, if not totally defendable, at least quite understandable, and certainly not hard to explain!) . Oh, well, if the board can't bother to give Mr. Woehr a reason, they certainly aren't going to give us mere members one, are they? . Wilson ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (06/03/90)
Category 8, Topic 24
Message 41 Sat Jun 02, 1990
D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 01:02 EDT
Re: Wilson [W.FEDERICI]
> I'm sure my opinions are of no interest whatsoever
Wilson, that is absolutely NOT the case. I am interested in any opinion you,
or any other FIG member has, and although the rest of the Board does not
express their feelings quite as openly as I do, I'm sure they feel the same.
This matter was entirely between the FIG Board of Directors and Mr. Woehr. It
was Mr. Woehr who decided to open it up for public debate, not any one on the
Board. However, if an explanation will help to put this matter to rest, here
one is: Mr Woehr was appointed by the Board to help promote FIG Chapters,
however, his recent activities did not appear to be accomplishing that goal.
Thus we have terminated his appointment.
Chapter coordination will now revert to the Chapters Desk in the FIG Business
Offices (408-277-0668). We had set Kent Stafford up in this position shortly
after appointing Mr. Woehr and he is well prepared to answer any questions you
may have about Chapters activities.
Any other questions? DaR
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Date: 06-02-90 (03:16) Number: 3307 (Echo) To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: 3306 From: JERRY SHIFRIN Read: NO Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE DR>one is: Mr Woehr was appointed by the Board to help promote FIG Chapters, DR>however, his recent activities did not appear to be accomplishing that goal DR>Thus we have terminated his appointment. I don't want to prolong the debate, but this really opens up more questions: Did Jack know that this was the reason he was suspended? What recent activities? --- ~ EZ 1.29 ~ ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
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Category 8, Topic 24
Message 43 Sun Jun 03, 1990
D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 15:08 EDT
Re: JERRY SHIFRIN
> Did Jack know that this was the reason
Yes! I discussed it with him personally at the TC meeting.
DaR
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Category 8, Topic 24 Message 44 Mon Jun 04, 1990 W.FEDERICI [W.FEDERICI] at 19:18 PDT I raised the issue not because of any intense interest in who holds what FIG office or why, but because I was irritated by the lack of candor. The irritation lingers -- such a simple answer should have been forthcoming a lot more readily -- but I'm content to let the matter rest. ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
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Date: 06-04-90 (10:44) Number: 3316 (Echo) To: DENNIS RUFFER Refer#: 3312 From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Re: JERRY SHIFRIN > > > Did Jack know that this was the reason > >Yes! I discussed it with him personally at the TC meeting. > >DaR > Um, Dennis, let's put it this way: you and I discussed the "official" reason for my dismissal. But let's save that stuff for official notices and not burden Bro. Jerry with the formality. I was dismissed because I became concerned that the current FIG administration was running the organization into the ground and said so in public. This offended the administration and I was canned. I understand this and accept it, as I hope y'all will accept that your board positions have been filled with reform candidates after the next Board election ... :-) =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
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Date: 06-05-90 (13:53) Number: 3317 (Echo)
To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: 3316
From: DAVID ALBERT Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Hi Jack,
Sorry to hear about all of this nonsense...politics stinks. BTW, I
liked your articles in Embedded Systems. So persevere, and don't let
these turkeys trouble you.
-----
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Date: 06-06-90 (00:11) Number: 3325
To: W.FEDERICI [W.FEDERICI] Refer#: 3302
From: HANS PIERROT Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Maybe we should ask them for a copy of the rules of the organization.
I have been a member of FIG for more years than I care to remember. And
I Certainly don't recall being asked to vote on anything. Perhaps the
board could spare some space in FD to publish the rules of FIG. Then
maybe we can find out how to nominate for the board. Maybe it will also
tell us how ordinary members like us can exercise some of our other
rights. Maybe some one from down under should nominate. Then we would
have to hold board meetings via the telephone or BBS.
Are there any other 'just members' out there who are feeling
concerned????
Hans.
---
* Via ProDoor 3.0
NET/Mail : Australian Connection Forth Board (Melbourne) 61 3 8091787
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Category 8, Topic 24 Message 48 Thu Jun 07, 1990 D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 21:31 EDT Re: HANS PIERROT > Perhaps the board could spare some space in FD to publish the > rules of FIG. Then maybe we can find out how to nominate for the > board. Your wish is my command. Watch for you July/August issue and get your petitions in! You're welcome. DaR ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (06/10/90)
Date: 06-06-90 (08:32) Number: 3328 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 3317 From: JACK WOEHR Read: 06-07-90 (10:52) Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Hi Jack, > Sorry to hear about all of this nonsense...politics stinks. Thanx for your support David, though I must confess that I couldn't possibly deny a charge of "playing politics" here myself. My disagreement with the FIG Board is over goals and methods, but not over whether there should be a Board, or whether that Board should be essentially a political body which must stand election. >BTW, I >liked your articles in Embedded Systems. Thanx! I get to enjoy them three times each! Once when I write them, once when I see them in print, and once when I hear from you! >So persevere, and don't let >these turkeys trouble you. Ne illegitimi carborundum! :-) =jax= NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
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Category 8, Topic 24
Message 50 Sun Jun 10, 1990
F.SERGEANT [Frank] at 11:06 CDT
To Wil or other experts on Latin,
Jax writes
Ne illegitimi carborundum!
And someone corrects it to
Non illegitimi carborundum!
Is the last (or even the first) correct Latin? If so, does it really
translate as "Don't let the bastards grind you down"? I've seen it for years
and always wondered.
Or, is it similar to "Como esta frijole cabrito?" which is joke Spanish
for "How you bean, kid?"?
-- Frank
-----
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Category 8, Topic 24 Message 51 Tue Jun 12, 1990 W.BADEN1 [Wil] at 19:43 PDT I have forgotten xcix percentum of my Latin, and I never have been an expert, although there were several years when translating Gregorian chants from Latin into English was a hobby of mine. I trust that everyone recognizes that my tag, Procedamus in Pace, should be translated as Let us go Forth in peace. In 1940, when I first had to study Latin (I didn't have a choice), illegitimimus non carborundum was considered hot stuff -- very risque -- but no way is it really Latin. I have a memory that it was a favorite of General Stillwell. We also thought the correct Latin "Penis erectus conscientiam non habet" was hot stuff. I remember a game of charades when a school mate was given this to act out. Rather than describe his inspired efforts, I leave it as an exercise to the reader. As the patron saint of Forth is supposed to have said, Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
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Date: 06-14-90 (15:38) Number: 3356 (Echo)
To: W.BADEN1 [WIL] Refer#: 3354
From: JERRY SHIFRIN Read: NO
Subj: FIG SUSPENDS CHAPTER COOR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
WW>As the patron saint of Forth is supposed to have said, Entia non sunt
WW>multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
Just a shot in the dark (or at least from behind a shadow screen):
Thou shalt not multiply by odd numbers!
---
~ EZ 1.29 ~
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Category 8, Topic 24
Message 55 Mon Jul 02, 1990
GARY-S at 06:54 EDT
PORTED FROM Wetware =>
-------
Item 12 by Luther Huffman (luther), on Sat, Jun 16, 1990 (08:43)
FIG Question
1 new of 2 responses total.
#12.2 (2) by Luther Huffman (luther), on Sat Jun 30 07:19:12 1990:
I've been reading a lot about this "jax" guy who was suspended. Now he
is going to run for office in FIG. What can you tell me about this guy?
Response by Gary Smith:
>You already noted you read 'Embedded Systems Programming' in an earlier
>topic. Jax is the Jack Woehr that is employed by Vesta Technologies, and
>writes articles for 'ESP'.
>Jax refers to himself as a balding hippie, so he is a self-acknowledged
>iconoclast. He wants changes in FIG. He feels the current FIG board is
>drowning in its own lethargy. He made more waves than he probably should
>have, and the board suspended him. He is now running for one of the open
>positions on the FIG board.
>I don't agree with some of Jax' methods, but I like him personally. He is
>fairwitness on the WELL's forth.conf and was instrumental in helping me
>get ForthNet rolling - at least the nixpub branch of it. He is also SysOp
>of the Real-Time Control Forth Board in Denver, sponsored by Vesta. RCFB
>is one of the pc-board arms in that branch of ForthNet.
>So, while jax has been suspended as FIG Chapter Coordinator, he is far
>from out of the FIG picture. He is also a frequent flier at our Thursday
>FIGGY BAR open conferences I conduct on the GEnie Forth RoundTable.
>
>Other than that, I can't tell you a thing about jax. :-)
> gars
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