gil@jtsv16.jts.com (gil hauer) (07/24/90)
Hello Forth-ers: Being a novice in Forth, I have a question that I would like to forward to this group since I don't feel I have enough knowledge to answer it. I am involved in a project to build an embedded controller (based on an i80188). What are the advantages/disadvantages of using Forth environment in the controller over a compiled 'C' program? I don't wish to start a "religious" war of Forth vs. 'C'. I am just looking for a little information. As an aside, I just picked up TILE Forth from alt.sources. I am using this Forth environment for learning and would like to port it to the 80188. Does anyone have any experience in doing this? Regards, Gil -- +-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Gil Hauer, Tech Noir Inc. | gil@jtsv16.jts.com | | Toronto +1 416 653-8276 | or: uunet!jtsv16!gil | +-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) (07/25/90)
gil@jtsv16.jts.com (gil hauer) writes: >I am involved in a project to build an embedded controller (based on >an i80188). What are the advantages/disadvantages of using Forth >environment in the controller over a compiled 'C' program? Advantages: - No steenking operating system. - Built-in parser, interpreter, user interface. - Interpretive environment. Test each function as you define it. Bang hardware interpretively for faster debugging. Hi-level debugger. (PS, don't build your own 80188, buy one from me with a fine, hundreds-of-proven-installations Forth-83 on it. Email me your snail address and I'll send you the Vesta Technology Inc. catalog of single board computers with Forth, C and Basic on them. jax@well.UUCP, {hplabs,pacbell,ucb}!well!jax) - Forth designed for realtime control, C designed for minicomputers. (See my articles in "Embedded Systems Programming" magazine over the last year or so) Disadvantages: - There are about 1,000 C programmers for every Forth programmer. - When your project fails, you don't have an arcane compiler and debugger to take the blame for you. - People think you are crazy for preferring a language *designed* for realtime control to a language designed for enriching AT&T. >As an aside, I just picked up TILE Forth from alt.sources. I am using >this Forth environment for learning and would like to port it to the >80188. Does anyone have any experience in doing this? TILE is a little elaborate for what you have in mind. If, in the tradition of Forthers everywhere, you decide to roll your own, start with F83 by Laxen & Perry, or FIG-FOrth, or F-PC Forth, it's easier. Good luck, friend! <jax@well.{UUCP,sf.ca.us} >< Member, > /// ///\\\ \\\ /// <well!jax@lll-winken.arpa >< X3J14 TC > /// /// \\\ \\\/// <JAX on GEnie >< for ANS > \\\ /// ///====\\\ ///\\\ <SYSOP RCFB (303) 278-0364>< Forth > \\\/// /// \\\ /// \\\
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) (07/26/90)
> I am involved in a project to build an embedded controller (based on > an i80188). What are the advantages/disadvantages of using Forth > environment in the controller over a compiled 'C' program? For one thing, the testing and debugging environment... even if you still have to blow proms... will save you weeks of accumulated time spent waiting for minor bug fixes to be blasted into silicon, guessing where you need to put debugging code (and getting it wrong), parsing tables by hand from a hex dump, looking for places to cram patches, etc. Unless you're working with a large team (which pretty much implies you're not doing a small embedded controller) Forth will save your bacon. If you are, make sure all your guys have the discipline not to step on each others toes and are willing to dump all the high-ego private wordsets in the trashcan. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' +1 713 274 5180. 'U` <peter@ficc.ferranti.com>