ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (12/13/90)
Date: 12-08-90 (08:52) Number: 456 of 483 To: GARY SMITH Refer#: NONE From: STEVE PALINCSAR Read: NO Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Didn't I hear news reports that all the trouble this Space Shuttle flight has been having have been due to "problems" and "fragility" with the software? If so, that's *HARDLY* good publicity for forth... --- ~ MetroLink: Data Bit NETWork * Alexandria, VA * (703) 719-9648 PCRelay:DCINFO -> #16 MetroLink (tm) International Network 4.10 DC Info Exchange MetroLink International Hub <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (12/13/90)
Category 6, Topic 2
Message 13 Wed Dec 12, 1990
GARY-S at 06:25 EST
To: STEVE PALINCSAR
Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY
>Didn't I hear news reports that all the trouble this Space Shuttle
>flight has been having have been due to "problems" and "fragility" with
>the software? If so, that's *HARDLY* good publicity for forth...
---
That would indeed be extremely _BAD_ publicity. Forth was invloved in
this mission. I refer you to John Hayes rather detailed report of two
days ago for specifics. I will also have to defer to John Hayes or
perhaps Marty Fraeman for an accounting if the mission snafus were
contributed to and/or caused by Forth based programs. From the reports
I read and John's net message I am thinking Forth is not the culprit,
but lacking specifics I am obviously guilty of speculation, and it may
be wishful speculation.
Gary gars@glsrk
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In article <2109.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us>, ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) writes: > Category 6, Topic 2 > Message 13 Wed Dec 12, 1990 > GARY-S at 06:25 EST > > > To: STEVE PALINCSAR > Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY > > >Didn't I hear news reports that all the trouble this Space Shuttle > >flight has been having have been due to "problems" and "fragility" with > >the software? If so, that's *HARDLY* good publicity for forth... > --- > That would indeed be extremely _BAD_ publicity. Forth was invloved in > this mission. I refer you to John Hayes rather detailed report of two My peripheral hearing was that both the main and backup computers SMOKED, ie had hardware/electrical problems. I know FORTH let's you get close to the iron but burn it????!!!!??? I may be mistaken, but I hope not! --Clyde
ZMLEB@SCFVM.GSFC.NASA.GOV (Lee Brotzman) (12/14/90)
> >Didn't I hear news reports that all the trouble this Space Shuttle > >flight has been having have been due to "problems" and "fragility" with > >the software? If so, that's *HARDLY* good publicity for forth... > --- > That would indeed be extremely _BAD_ publicity. Forth was invloved in > this mission. I refer you to John Hayes rather detailed report of two > days ago for specifics. I will also have to defer to John Hayes or > perhaps Marty Fraeman for an accounting if the mission snafus were > contributed to and/or caused by Forth based programs. From the reports > I read and John's net message I am thinking Forth is not the culprit, > but lacking specifics I am obviously guilty of speculation, and it may > be wishful speculation. > Gary gars@glsrk The first computer problem Astro encountered was with the Instrument Pointing System, the gizmo that moves the telescopes into the right position. As far as I know, this device is not controlled by Forth software. The was primarily mechanical. The IPS has three star trackers, all of which must agree that the pointing is correct. The vibration from launch screwed up the alignment of the star trackers and several software patches were required to make up for the physical problem of have cross-eyed trackers. Also, I think the sensors were too sensitive and too many stars were showing up in the field of view, another patch had to be applied for that. The IPS finally started working just a few hours before they had to button up for the ride home. The second and third problems were with the two Data Display Units (DDU) which are basically just terminals. I don't believe that these use Forth software either, although perhaps they do. I'm not sure what happened to the first DDU, but the second overheated and gave off an alarming smokey smell. It seems that there was a buildup of lint fouling up the electronics. After cleaning all the lint they could, the smell persisted and the second DDU had to be shut down. Forth IS used within the telescopes themselves, for controlling the movement of filter wheels, motion compensation devices, etc. The telescopes, as far as I know, all worked pretty well. The problems arose in getting them pointed and then sending them commands. What I just said isn't gospel, but I tried to follow the mission as closely as I could. One of the payload specialists, Ron Parise, and I had collaborated on a Forth kernel for the Commodore 64 about six years ago, and I still run into him now and again here at Goddard. It's neat being able to say you know an astronaut! -- Lee Brotzman (FIGI-L Moderator) -- BITNET: ZMLEB@SCFVM Internet: zmleb@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov -- "Between an idea and implementation, is software." -- Curse from Hubble -- Space Telescope engineer.
john@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (John Hayes) (12/14/90)
Gary writes in reference to the recent shuttle flight: > That would indeed be extremely _BAD_ publicity. Forth was invloved in > this mission. I refer you to John Hayes rather detailed report of two > days ago for specifics. I will also have to defer to John Hayes or > perhaps Marty Fraeman for an accounting if the mission snafus were > contributed to and/or caused by Forth based programs. From the reports > I read and John's net message I am thinking Forth is not the culprit, > but lacking specifics I am obviously guilty of speculation, and it may > be wishful speculation. I have just returned from Huntsville and can give a complete report on the recent space shuttle Columbia flight. As I reported earlier this flight carried three ultraviolet telescopes, each programmed in Forth. Two astronauts on the aft flight deck control the telescopes using the Experiment Computer (EC) built by the ESA. This computer can be seen as an I/O multiplexer for the computers in the telescopes and for the Instrument Pointing System (IPS). The two astronauts interact with the EC via two Dedicated Display Units (DDUs). These are just color display terminals. +-----+ +-----+ +-------+ +-----+ | IPS | | HUT | | WUPPE | | UIT | +--+--+ +-----+ +-------+ +-----+ +-----+ +------+ | | | | | DDU |----+ | +------------+ | | | +-----+ | | | | | | +---| EC +----------------------+ | | +-----+ | | | | | | DDU |----+ | +---------------------------------+ | +-----+ | | | | +--------------------------------------------+ +------+ On the first day one of the DDUs died. This was not disastrous but inconveniant since the astronauts had to share the remaining DDU. A couple of days later the second DDU died. This left the astronauts with no way to communicate with the telescopes. However, the command uplink capability from Huntsville (via many satellites) to the shuttle was still working. Each instrument team controlled their telescope from the ground. The astronauts still had some control of the IPS with a joy stick. The astronauts were able to find the targets with some help from the ground, then the observation was controlled entirely by command uplink. Ben Ballard and I took turned driving HUT. The telescopes, for the most part, worked flawlessly. During the initial turn on, the team from the University of Wisconsin was unable to load the WUPPE computer. It was later found that a heater had not been turned on for the interface between the EC and the WUPPE computer. Somehow this damaged the WUPPE computer. Fortunately, they had a backup computer. Once this was brought up, they had no further problems. Despite what you hear from the media, the mission was a success. These apparently severe problems were circumvented in a remarkably short amount of time. By the time things settled down, we acquired almost every target attempted and collected large amounts of data (1.5 Gbytes for HUT). All of the scientists were grinning ear to ear by the end of the flight. Several cataclysmic variables were fortuitously in outburst during the mission and HUT observed some of these. The HUT scientists are also interested in quasi-stellar objects (or quasars) and several were observed doing "strange" things. Once the data has been reduced, many papers will be forthcoming. John R. Hayes john@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu Applied Physics Laboratory Johns Hopkins University
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (12/19/90)
Date: 12-16-90 (14:05) Number: 554 of 573 (Echo)
To: STEVE PALINCSAR Refer#: 456
From: JAMES MEYER Read: NO
Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+)
SP>Didn't I hear news reports that all the trouble this Space Shuttle
SP>flight has been having have been due to "problems" and "fragility" with
SP>the software? If so, that's *HARDLY* good publicity for forth...
Steve,
The problems reported in the trade papers have been hardware
related. Unless Forth exercized the silicon too fast, I think we can
lay the blame on that.
Jim
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~ EZ 1.33 ~ HELP I'm being held prisoner in a tagline!!!
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Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwpForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (12/19/90)
Date: 12-15-90 (07:36) Number: 556 of 573 To: GARY SMITH Refer#: 512 From: STEVE PALINCSAR Read: NO Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I certainly _hope_ forth was not the culprit...! Meanwhile, why is it that when people write buggy software in C or ASM it's the fault of the program, and when they write buggy software in forth it's the fault of forth? PCRelay:VIRGIN -> #448 RelayNet (tm) 4.10 The Virginia Connection (CASA) 703-648-1841 <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (12/22/90)
Date: 12-18-90 (13:26) Number: 600 of 618 To: STEVE PALINCSAR Refer#: 556 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) That's because only real programmers write in Forth; and pseudo programmers use C. So you cant blame them. PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm) 4.10 Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645 <<<>>> Date: 12-18-90 (13:37) Number: 601 of 618 To: JAMES MEYER Refer#: 554 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I'm surprised no one mentioned ( was I dreaming when I heard it ?) that the problems were caused bby lint clogging up some of the ductwork and thus letting the ( cpu?) chips overheat. PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm) 4.10 Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645 <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (12/28/90)
Date: 12-22-90 (17:28) Number: 641 of 656 (Echo)
To: ANIL RODRIX Refer#: 601
From: JAMES MEYER Read: NO
Subj: FORTH AND ASTRONOMY Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+)
AR>I'm surprised no one mentioned ( was I dreaming when I heard it ?) that
AR>the problems were caused bby lint clogging up some of the ductwork and
AR>thus letting the ( cpu?) chips overheat.
You weren't the only one. I got the same explanation from EEN,
Electronics Engineering News, last week. Looks like another 'Oops' for
NASA. They need to get their act together. "All their sh** in one
sock" I believe is the relevant phrase.
Jim
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~ EZ 1.33 ~ My First Tagline
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