[comp.lang.forth] Substantive vs. "Editorial" proposals

wmb@MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM (Mitch Bradley) (01/28/91)

Is anybody surprised that "editorial" and "typo correction" proposals
are easier to get passed than substantive proposals?

> It would seem that outside proposals fail because they raise
> issues, period.

A whole lot of issues have been beaten to death already, and the committee
is disinclined to keep bringing up the same issues over and over and over
again.

If a proposal uncovers a new issue, or casts a previously-decided issue
in a different light, then it stands a much greater chance of getting
passed.

After 4.5 years of discussion, the percentage of "new ground" to "old
ground" is getting pretty low.

I would judge that the Toronto group, having succeeded with the intent
of 3 substantive proposals in a single meeting, is doing pretty well.
As a committee member, I didn't get any substantive proposals passed
until my third meeting.

The Boston FIG Group (specifically David Petty and Bent Schmidt-Nielson)
got the largest proposal I have ever seen passed (it was amended, and
some of its original intent was lost, but a lot of its intent survived.)

Everybody's proposals get amended.  There's no shame involved.

Mitch

dwpst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Douglas W Philips) (01/29/91)

In article <9101282228.AA19814@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>,
	Mitch Bradley <wmb%MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM@SCFVM.GSFC.NASA.GOV> writes:
>A whole lot of issues have been beaten to death already, and the committee
>is disinclined to keep bringing up the same issues over and over and over
>again.
>
>If a proposal uncovers a new issue, or casts a previously-decided issue
>in a different light, then it stands a much greater chance of getting
>passed.
>
>After 4.5 years of discussion, the percentage of "new ground" to "old
>ground" is getting pretty low.

I've said this before, but perhaps it bears repeating.  The ANSI process
is as political as it is technical, if not more so.  The difficulty here
is that those of us that have not participated have no way of knowing which
issues have been beat to death (or at this point which ones haven't) and
what the arguments pro/con were.  It is all well and good to say "trust us,
we did the right thing" or "trust us, there is no cut and dried superior
alternative so we chose X" but that inspires little confidence.  This is
hardly a problem specific to X3J14.  It seems to come with the ANSI
territory.  I wonder how different the standard would be if transcripts of
all the meetings were made and required to be available?  (rhetorical
question).

-Doug