Mitch.Bradley@ENG.SUN.COM (Mitch Bradley) (05/27/91)
> I'm having trouble understanding why people keep talking as if FORTH is > totally useless for anything except imbedded systems & such -- my office runs > veerrrryyy quickly & efficiently on the programming I've built over the > years. Forth is not inherently useless for non-embedded-system applications. However, a) C is extremely popular in general purpose computing environments, and by and large works quite well in those environments (*), so that Forth has a very difficult time getting a "toehold". (*)To some extent, C works well in those environments because a tremendous amount of industry investment has resulted in some excellent C development environments (e.g. Turbo C). b) Traditionally, Forth has been missing a lot of things that people expect from a development environment for general purpose platforms. Examples: standard file system interface, standard floating point, OS interfaces, text file compatibility. Nowadays, many Forth systems have such extensions, but there is little compatibility among different implementations of such extensions. Rather than reinvent the wheel, many software developers, even those favorably inclined toward Forth, will choose to use C where all the extension packages are pretty much standard and universally available. I have been trying to promote the use of Forth for general purpose use since about 1983. It isn't easy to do. On machines powerful enough to support C reasonably well, Forth's advantages are not compelling except to "true believers", and its disadvantages are tangible (lack of standards for necessary extensions, relatively small pool of Forth programmers, image problems). ANS Forth will help in the area of standard extensions, but may be "too little, too late". The popularity problems will probably hamper us forever. Mitch.Bradley@Eng.Sun.COM
jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) (05/30/91)
Mitch.Bradley@ENG.SUN.COM (Mitch Bradley) writes: >ANS Forth will help in the area of standard extensions, but may be "too >little, too late". The popularity problems will probably hamper us forever. Actually, I think that is what *attracts* people to Forth. We're all closet sociopaths. If we wanted popularity, we'd wear suits, drink lots of beer, play volleyball and program in C. :-) May I quote myself? ".. To remain active in the Forth programming community past the duration of one or two consecutive work assignments seems to me to be an act of asserting one's individuality. I have yet to meet anyone claiming to have been coerced into a Forth career by industry pressure." - Me, "Managing Forth Projects", ESP May 1991. -- # jax@well.{UUCP,sf.ca.us} # # Member, # # Chapter Coordinator, # # well!jax@lll-winken.arpa # # X3J14 TC # # Forth Interest Group # # JAX on GEnie # # for ANS # # P.O. Box 8231 # # SYSOP RCFB (303) 278-0364 # # Forth # # San Jose CA 95155 #