ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (02/14/90)
Date: 02-13-90 (00:31) Number: 2896 (Echo) To: GREG FRESHWATER Refer#: 2891 From: JERRY SHIFRIN Read: NO Subj: FORTH FOR 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE GF>Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a forth language for the GF>Motorola 68HC11 micro-processor. LMI has a Forth metacompiler target available for the 68HC11. The only other one I know of is MAX-Forth which comes with the New Micros 68HC11 single board computer. --- * QDeLuxe 1.10 #214s ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (02/16/90)
Date: 02-13-90 (14:12) Number: 2905 (Echo)
To: JERRY SHIFRIN Refer#: NONE
From: JACK WOEHR Read: NO
Subj: FORTH FOR 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Jerry, there's a fab polyFORTH metacompiler for 68HC11.
Only drawback is same as mentioned in your earlier posting:
$ $$$$.CC
=jax=
NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
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Date: 02-21-90 (17:23) Number: 391 (Echo) To: JACK BROWN Refer#: NONE From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: F68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Jack - just saw an old message from you , when you just got New Micros board. I started using the board 2 years ago, and have got somewhat familiar with. I am trying to get together some stuff on a disc and send it to Jerry, up to him whether to post it. Much of the disc will be from Ben Franklin Systems, : Bill Stewart, who got me started into machine coding. He has several tools in PD; also a commercial package. His PD disc will be sent to one of the networks i understand. I think you are in Canada? or I'd give you my 800 number to call. ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (03/02/90)
Date: 02-28-90 (13:14) Number: 393 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: FRANK'S 68HC11 FORTH ASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Hi Frank, thought you might be interested in the changes that
I had to make to get your 68HC11 assembler running on the
F68HC11 from New Micros. I will copy the appropriate sections
from the new file. I have not yet fully checked out that all
works as it should, when I have done so I will upload the changed
file.
( Modified to run on New Micros NMIX-0021 F68HC11 Board by )
( Jack W. Brown )
( *** Forth assembler for Motorola 68HC11 chip *** )
( copyright 1989 Frank C. Sergeant )
( JWB 25 02 90 Changed PUSH and POP to >R and R> )
( JWB 26 02 90 Fixed Bug in definition of OP3, W, replaced with C, )
( JWB 26 02 90 Added POP: POPTWO: PUSHD: and NEXT: entry points )
( JWB 26 02 90 Modified CODE and END-CODE for F68HC11 )
( JWB 26 02 90 Added NEXT macro. Changed FLIP to use MaxForth >< )
( JWB 27 02 90 Changed PL, to 0>=, its a better name. )
( JWB 27 02 90 Fixed problem with OP4 opcodes... Data fields )
( were reversed and base opcodes incorrect. )
( JWB 28 02 90 Changed A, and B, to AA, and AB, in LD ST and OR )
( instructions, the standard Motorola syntax. )
( was screen # 2 C:6811ASM.SCR )
HEX ( save this for any assembler variables, etc )
ASSEMBLER DEFINITIONS ( Added for Max Forth )
: FLIP ( hhll -- llhh ) >< ;
( -1 ) 0 CONSTANT INTEL ( change to zero for Motorola )
( was screen # 6 C:6811ASM.SCR )
( 2 operand opcodes, one of which is reg A or reg B )
( * changed to Motorola syntax )
86 OP2 LDAA, * C6 OP2 LDAB, * 8A OP2 ORAA, * CA OP2 ORAB, *
87 OP2 STAA, * C7 OP2 STAB, *
( was screen # 7 C:6811ASM.SCR )
( 2 operand opcodes, one of which is a 16-bit reg )
HEX
: OP3 ( c -) ( u | c -) <BUILDS C, ( JWB 26 02 90 )
DOES> yindexed? IF 18 C, THEN C@ mode @ + C, ( W, ******* )
ext? imm? OR IF W, ELSE C, THEN ext ;
( was screen # 11 C:6811ASM.SCR )
HEX
( The weird ones. The "normal" ones could have been)
( combined with these.)
: OP4 ( y-pre-byte x-pre-byte normal-pre-byte opcode -)
( y-pre x-pre norm-pre opcode)
( Data fields below were reversed and base opcodes were wrong )
( OP ,Y ,X - )
83 CD 1A 1A OP4 CPD,
8C CD 0 0 OP4 CPX,
8C 18 1A 18 OP4 CPY,
CE CD 0 0 OP4 LDX,
CE 18 1A 18 OP4 LDY,
CF CD 0 O OP4 STX,
CF 18 1A 18 OP4 STY,
22 cc U>, 23 cc U<=, ( you might want to consider)
2A cc 0>=, 2B cc 0<, ( renaming some of these )
20 cc ALWAYS, 21 cc NEVER, ( conditions )
28 cc -OV, 29 cc OV, ( Frank PL, now 0>=, )
( How to get some important entry points for terminating )
( CODE definitions in MAX Forth V 3.3 )
' DROP @ 2- @ 5 + @ CONSTANT NEXT:
' 2DROP @ 2- @ CONSTANT POPTWO:
' DROP @ 2- @ CONSTANT POP:
' DUP @ 2- @ 4 + @ CONSTANT PUSHD:
( Typical code definition sequence will be .... )
( CODE <name> ... op codes ... NEXT END-CODE )
: NEXT NEXT: JMP, ;
VARIABLE SCONTEXT ( Place to save CONTEXT vocabulary. )
FORTH DEFINITIONS
( CODE and END-CODE modified for F68HC11 Max Forth V3.3 )
: CODE ( -)
CREATE HERE DUP 2- !
CONTEXT @ [ ASSEMBLER ] SCONTEXT ! ext
[COMPILE] ASSEMBLER ;
ASSEMBLER DEFINITIONS
: END-CODE ( - )
SCONTEXT @ CONTEXT ! ;
FORTH DEFINITIONS DECIMAL
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 02-28-90 (13:18) Number: 394 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A) Subj: 68HC11 ENTRY POINTS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Here are the important entry points in New Micros MAX-Forth V3.3 These were found by doing a little hacking and then assembled using AS11 for the reference of others using the V3.3 roms. You can find out these entry pointes by ticking ' certain words and fetching the appropritate field. See the previous message for how to locate these for any version of max-Forth. 0001 0000 ORG 0 0002 0000 W RMB 2 0003 0002 IP RMB 2 0004 0004 UP RMB 2 0005 0006 0007 fc93 ORG $FC93 0008 0009 fc93 18 08 POPTWO: INY 0010 fc95 18 08 INY 0011 fc97 18 08 POP: INY 0012 fc99 18 08 INY 0013 fc9b 7e fe 4a JMP NEXT 0014 0015 fc9e de 02 BUMP: LDX IP 0016 fca0 08 INX 0017 fca1 08 INX 0018 fca2 7e fe 4c JMP NEXT3 0019 0020 fca5 18 ed 02 BINARY: STD 2,Y 0021 fca8 7e fc 97 JMP POP 0022 0023 fe43 ORG $FE43 0024 fe43 18 09 PUSHD: DEY 0025 fe45 18 09 DEY 0026 fe47 18 ed 00 NEXTSD: STD 0,Y 0027 0028 fe4a de 02 NEXT: LDX IP 0029 0030 fe4c 08 NEXT3: INX 0031 fe4d 08 INX 0032 fe4e df 02 STX IP 0033 fe50 ee 00 NEXT1: LDX 0,X 0034 fe52 df 00 NEXT2: STX W 0035 fe54 ee 00 LDX 0,X 0036 fe56 6e 00 JMP 0,X 0037 0038 END NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (03/02/90)
Date: 02-28-90 (13:20) Number: 395 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: PROBLEM 1A MEM CLEAR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
( 68hc11 Assembly Language Programming Course )
( Problem 1a )
( Write a 68HC11 assembly language program which will fill memory )
( locations from $C100 to $C1FF with 00 )
( Solution 1a )
( Since we have no memory at $C000 we will use memory at $2000 )
( instead. )
HEX
2100 CONSTANT DATA ( Start of memory to be filled with 0 )
0100 CONSTANT DCOUNT ( Number of memory bytes to be filled )
( High level Forth solution: )
( : MCLEAR ( -- )
( DATA DCOUNT OVER + SWAP )
( DO 0 I C! LOOP ; )
( High level Forth solution using Forth primitive FILL )
( FILL ( adr n byte -- )
( : MCLEAR DATA DCOUNT 0 FILL ; )
( Actually... most Forth's have a primitive called ERASE which )
( takes the address, adr, and count, n, on the stack. )
( ERASE ( adr n -- )
( : MCLEAR DATA DCOUNT ERASE ; )
( Typical assembly language solution using Forth Assembler )
CODE MCLEAR ( -- )
XGDY, ( Save parameter stack pointer. )
DATA #, LDX, ( Load start address )
DCOUNT #, LDY, ( Set count to clear in Y )
BEGIN,
0 ,X CLR, ( Clear one byte )
INX, ( Increment address )
DEY, ( Decrement count )
0=, ( Repeat until finished )
UNTIL,
XGDY, ( Restore parameter stack ptr )
NEXT ( Jump to address interpreter )
END-CODE
( Forth CODE definition for ERASE )
( ****** WARNING WARNING ***** )
( When uploading to Max Forth using the line feed as the pace )
( character the linefeed from a compiler warning or error may )
( trigger the premature sending of the next line. The blank )
( lines following ERASE are to allow the upload to get back )
( in sync after the compiler warning: )
( ERA__ NOT UNIQUE produced by creating the header for ERASE )
CODE ERASE ( adr n -- )
0 ,Y LDD, ( Fetch n from stack into D register )
2 ,Y LDX, ( Fetch adr from stack to X register )
XGDY, ( Swap parameter stack pointer for n )
BEGIN,
0 ,X CLR, ( Clear one byte )
INX, ( Increment address )
DEY, ( Decrement count )
0=, ( Repeat until finished )
UNTIL,
XGDY, ( Restore parameter stack ptr )
POPTWO: JMP, ( Pop adr and n from stack and )
( Jump to address interpreter )
END-CODE
DECIMAL
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 02-28-90 (13:24) Number: 396 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: PROBLEM 1B MEM MOVE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
( 68hc11 Assembly Language Programming Course )
( Problem 1b )
( Write a 68HC11 assembly language program which will move ten )
( bytes of data stored at memory locations $0010 -$0019 to )
( locations $C101 - $C10A )
( Solution 2a )
( Since we have no memory at $C000 we will use memory at $2000 )
( instead. Also the EVB board has free memory from $0000 - $0035 )
( where as the Max Forth board does not, it has some free direct )
( page ram starting at $0083 so we will modify the question to: )
( Move ten bytes of data stored at memory locations $0090 - $0099 )
( to locations $2101 - $210A )
HEX
0090 CONSTANT SOURCE
2101 CONSTANT DEST_START
210A CONSTANT DEST_END
( High level Forth Solution: )
( : DMOVE ( -- )
( DEST_END DEST_START - 1+ 0
( DO SOURCE I + C@ DEST_START I + C! LOOP ; )
( High level Forth solution using Forth primitive CMOVE )
( CMOVE ( adr1 adr2 u -- )
( Moves u bytes from adr1 to adr2 starting at low memory )
( : DMOVE ( -- )
( SOURCE DEST_START DEST_END )
( OVER - 1+ CMOVE ; )
( Typical assembly language solution to the problem of )
( moving ten bytes from direct page to extended memory )
CODE DMOVE ( -- )
PSHY, ( Save parameter stack pointer )
DEST_END #, LDX, ( We will move from high mem to low mem )
DEST_END DEST_START ( Compute byte count to move on the fly )
- 1+ #, LDY, ( and load into Y register )
BEGIN, ( Y counts A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 )
SOURCE 1- ,Y LDAA, ( we need 1- since loop exits on Y = 0 )
0 ,X STAA, ( Fetch and store one byte )
DEX, ( Decrement destination address )
DEY, ( Decrement byte counter )
0=, ( Leave loop on 0 count )
UNTIL,
PULY, ( Restore parameter stack pointer )
NEXT ( Jump to inner interpreter. )
END-CODE
( Follow up exercise for Forth assemblers... )
( Write 68HC11 CODE definitons for CMOVE and CMOVE> )
( Look at my definition of ERASE for some hints on how)
( to fetch the adr1 adr2 and u arguments from the )
( parameter stack. )
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 02-28-90 (13:27) Number: 397 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: HEX ASCII DUMP FOR MAX Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
( Hex Ascii memory dump utility. )
DECIMAL
: -ROT ROT ROT ;
( Leave true flag if a <= x <= b )
: [IN] ( x a b -- flag )
1+ -ROT 1- OVER < -ROT > AND ;
( EMIT n as printable ascii or a space )
: .ASCII ( n -- )
127 AND DUP BL 126 [IN] NOT
IF DROP BL THEN EMIT ;
( Double space if i is equal to 8 )
: ?SPACE ( i -- )
8 = IF SPACE SPACE THEN ;
( Print byte right justified in field w wide. )
: .RBYTE ( n w -- )
>R 0 <# # # #> R> OVER - SPACES TYPE ;
( Based on address adr , display heading for VERIFY )
: HEAD ( addr -- )
CR 5 SPACES 16 0
DO I OVER + 255 AND
I ?SPACE 3 .RBYTE
LOOP
2 SPACES 16 0
DO I OVER + 15 AND
1 .R
LOOP DROP ;
( Verify 16 bytes from address )
: 1LINE ( adr -- )
DUP CR 4 U.R SPACE DUP ( display address )
16 0 DO I ?SPACE COUNT 3 .RBYTE ( display bytes in hex )
LOOP DROP 2 SPACES
16 0 DO COUNT .ASCII
LOOP DROP SPACE ;
( VERIFY only 32 bytes from addr with header. )
: VERIFY ( adr -- )
BASE @ SWAP HEX DUP HEAD
DUP 1LINE DUP 16 +
1LINE HEAD CR BASE ! ;
( Peek at word )
: PEEK ( -- )
[COMPILE] ' DUP
NFA VERIFY
CFA VERIFY ;
( Dump out n bytes of memory starting at adr )
: DUMP
( adr n -- )
BASE @ >R HEX
OVER HEAD ( a n )
OVER + OVER ( a n+a a )
DO I 1LINE 16 +LOOP
HEAD R> BASE ! CR ;
( PEEK <name> dumps header and pfa fields of <name> )
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 03-01-90 (00:48) Number: 404 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: FORTH SOLUTION TO 1C Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
( 68hc11 Assembly Language Programming Course )
( Problem 1c )
( Write a 68HC11 assembly language program which will find the )
( largest of 10 numbers stored in contiguous memory locations )
( starting at location $0020. The numbers are single byte )
( unsigned integers. Save the largest number in memory at )
( location $002A. )
( Solution 1c )
( Since we have no free memory at $0020 we will use memory at $90 )
( and location $9A for the largest number. )
( Find the maximum of 10 bytes located at $90, max at $9A )
HEX
0090 CONSTANT DATA ( Location of byte array of data )
009A CONSTANT MAXI ( Location to save maximum value )
000A CONSTANT N ( Size of byte array )
DATA N 22 FILL ( Some test data )
88 DATA 5 + C! ( 88 should end up at 9A )
0 MAXI C!
( High Level Forth Solution : )
( : MAXIMUM ( -- )
( 0 10 0 DO DATA I + C@ 2DUP < )
( IF SWAP THEN DROP )
( LOOP MAXI C! ; )
( Typical assembly language solution to the maximum problem )
CODE MAXIMUM ( -- )
CLRA, ( set maximum to zero )
N #, LDX, ( set byte array size in X )
BEGIN,
DATA ,X CMPA, ( max - data )
U<,
IF,
DATA ,X LDAA, ( Save current as maximum )
THEN,
DEX, ( Point to next item in byte array )
0=, ( Continue until all have been checked )
UNTIL,
MAXI DIR STAA, ( store maximum value )
NEXT
END-CODE
( Extra Problem for the Forth Assemblers! )
( Write a code definition and a high level definitions for the word )
( MAX_BYTE that takes the address of a byte array and the byte count)
( on the stack and leaves the maximum value in the byte array on the)
( stack. MAX_BYTE ( adr n -- max )
( Make sure that it works for both direct and extended page byte )
( arrays. )
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 03-01-90 (00:51) Number: 405 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: FORTH SOLUTION TO 1D Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
( 68hc11 Assembly Language Programming Course )
( Problem 1d )
( Write a 68HC11 assembly language program which will calculate )
( the average of four data values stored in locations $00 - $03 )
( and store the result in location $04 )
( We will perform the exercise at $90 - $93 and put result at $94 )
HEX
0090 CONSTANT DATA ( Data array of four values to average )
0004 CONSTANT N ( Count of data values to average )
0094 CONSTANT RESULT ( Average of four numbers )
( High level Forth Solution : )
( : AVERAGE ( -- )
( 0 N 0 DO DATA I + C@ + LOOP N / RESULT C! ; )
( Typical assembly language solution )
CODE AVERAGE ( -- )
N #, LDX, ( Load byte array size )
CLRA, ( Clear D to hold current byte )
CLRB,
BEGIN,
DATA 1- ,X ADDB, ( Accumulate total )
0 #, ADCA, ( Sum = Sum + current byte )
DEX, ( Decrement byte counter )
0=, ( Continue until done )
UNTIL,
N #, LDX,
IDIV, ( Compute average )
XGDX,
RESULT DIR STAB, ( Save computed average )
NEXT
END-CODE
( Extra problem for Forth assemblers: Write both a code definition )
( and a high level Forth definition for a word called BYTE_AVG that )
( takes as stack input parameters the address of a byte array and )
( the byte array size and leaves as a stack output the average of )
( the byte array: BYTE_AVG ( adr n -- average )
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 03-01-90 (00:53) Number: 406 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: (N/A)
Subj: FORTH SOLUTION TO 1E Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
( 68hc11 Assembly Language Programming Course )
( Problem 1e )
( Write a 68HC11 assembly language program which will do this: )
( If bit 5 of ;memory location $0020 is set, 1, then clear memory )
( location $0010. If bit 5 is clear then set it. Note: do not )
( disturb the state of any of the other bits in the byte. )
( Solution 1e )
( We use memory locations $00A0 and $0090 instead of $20 and $10 )
HEX
00A0 CONSTANT BFLAGS
0090 CONSTANT DATA
( Check bit 5 and take appropriate action. This is a bitch for )
( the Forth assembler as we need to fake a forward reference and )
( make sure that it is properly resolved. )
CODE BITCH ( -- )
HERE ( dummy address for BRCLR, )
BFLAGS 0020 BRCLR, ( branch if bit 5 clear )
( IF, ) HERE 1- ( back address for ELSE, )
DATA CLR,
ELSE,
BFLAGS 0020 BSET,
THEN,
NEXT
END-CODE
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 03-01-90 (00:56) Number: 407 (Echo)
To: FRANK SARGENT Refer#: NONE
From: JACK BROWN Read: NO
Subj: BUGS IN 6811ASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
I'm still finding bugs in the assembler.
The ELSE, of IF, .... ELSE, .... THEN,,
was not compiling the correct branch offset for the branch compiled
by IF, It was low by a count of 2.
The definition of ELSE, must be changed to:
: ELSE, ( back-adr - here )
HERE OVER 1- - SWAP C! ( You cannot use THEN, )
ALWAYS, C, HERE 0 C, ; ( as offset generated is low by 2 )
I think there was another bug too.... but I forget where.
It's 1:00 now and I'm going to bed.
NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886
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Date: 03-01-90 (12:45) Number: 1613 (Echo) To: BILL BORGEN Refer#: NONE From: JACK BROWN Read: NO Subj: FORTH FOR 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >IS BEING CONTROLLED BY A MOTOROLA 68HC11EVB, A CHEAP, BUT VERY USEFUL >BOARD. I'D LIKE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH SOME ONE TO HELP ME BUILD A KERNEL >FOR THE 68HC11, SO THAT I CAN RUN FORTH ON THE 68HC11EVB. CAN YOU REFER >ME TO SOME ONE? THANKS FOR YOU TIME........BILL BORGEN You can buy the Max-Forth ROM from New Micros Inc and plug it right into your EVB board. Call them at 214-339-2204 for more information. Several of us in our BC Fig chapter have purchased the New Micros NMIX-0022 F68HCll development board which has Max-Forth in the on Chip ROM. Cost for the NMIX-0022 is about $265 US which is about the same as the EVB ( Educational group purchase price for EVB are as low as $ 68 US per board ). Apparently you can also do a direct replacement of the 68HC11 on the EVB board with the New Micros F68HC11 version. Cost of the replacement F68HC11 is about $37. Several people have developed their own Forth for the HC11 but they tend to keep the somewhat proprietory. To my knowledge there are no PD/Shareware versions available although Frank Sargent indicated he plans to Port PYGMY Forth to the 68HC11. I have been working with Franks 68HC11 assembler which he wrote for PYGMY Forth which runs on the PC. If you want to see what we're up to with the HC11 join the 4TH-HDW conference. NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (03/06/90)
Category 6, Topic 30 Message 45 Sun Mar 04, 1990 F.SERGEANT [Frank] at 21:52 CST To Jack Brown re 6811 assembler Thanks for letting me know how you're doing with the assembler. I'd been wondering. I've tried to send you e-mail (to J.BROWN11) several times, but I guess they didn't get to you. Of course you should customize it to suit your preferences. My feeling is that STA, STB, ORA, ORB, etc. are far superior to STAA, STAB, ORAA, ORAB, etc. I've used the former for all my Motorola work for years. Especially in a Forth assembler, and especially for a New Micro's board, the assembler is used for one of a kind, hand-crafted code where the high-level Forth won't do. I can't see there should be much concern for conforming to Motorola's "standard" mnemonics. In fact, Motorola didn't even conform to them when going to the 6809, which uses the more compact versions. I accept, however, that you do see that there should be such a concern. With or without those changes, our Forth assembler code still won't load directly into a "standard" Motorola assembler due to the ending commas on our mnemonics and due to post- fix, and due to the looping & conditional structures. I still haven't wired up my 68HC11 chip, so I'm not surprised to hear there were some bugs. I'm glad you were able to get it running. As always, if you or anyone find bugs and let me know the code it does assemble vs the code it should assemble I'll do my best to fix it and post the corrections. -- Frank ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: 'uunet!willett!dwp' or 'willett!dwp@gateway.sei.cmu.edu'
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (07/25/90)
Date: 07-23-90 (10:43) Number: 668 (Echo)
To: ALL Refer#: NONE
From: DAVID ALBERT Read: (N/A)
Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Can anyone answer a few questions about the 68HC11?
1. What are the power requirements (current required)?
2. Where can one get them in small qty, and for how much?
3. What is your general feeling about working with it (Good, Bad,
average, ...)
I am looking for a really low power CMOS micro-controller, and the
68HC11 was suggested to me...If you have any opinions on this chip, or
if you can suggest another, I would really appreciate it. The lower the
power requirements, the better. THANKS!
-----
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Date: 07-24-90 (21:12) Number: 670 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 668 From: JOHN SOMERVILLE Read: 07-25-90 (09:30) Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE New Micros Development Board with Max Forth was a snap. Assembler seemed much more difficult, (for me anyway). Talk to Jack Brown sysop on this board for some high-class info. regards j NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (07/29/90)
Date: 07-27-90 (12:52) Number: 679 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 668 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE David: I am reasonably happy with the 68hc11, but I use New Micros version with Forth onboard in ROM, the F68hc11. Their single qty chip price is 37.50 - I dont know whether you are a Forth user or not. ( If you are I would assume you would prefer this). The plain chip must be less. Power is supposed to be around 20 ma. I get a complete 4x4 inch board from New Micros, with sockets for memory, the PRU 6824 chip, RS232 connection, and all ports available. My interface board has 2 encoder interface chips, dual D/A, output isolation SSR's, and feeds the 2 rotary encoders - relative power hogs - all for about 85 ma for the complete control. The board from NMI is about 120 without 5 V supply. ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (07/29/90)
Date: 07-27-90 (12:59) Number: 680 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 668 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE To add to the above - the board itself has been my development system, they go as is into the machine. Only replace battery ram for development with Eprom with final program. Only complaint was divide routines were too slow; got help initially and rewrote many math routines in machine code. ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (07/31/90)
Date: 07-28-90 (13:42) Number: 683 (Echo) To: ANIL RODRIX Refer#: 679 From: JOHN SOMERVILLE Read: NO Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE What have you used your board for? I am still trying to come up with a good project. I like the board a lot, but I should get out of the tinkering stage. A few fellows here (Vancouver) got the New Micros board, but I think they are getting lured away by RTX whizz-bang. I'd like to hear your ideas. regards j NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu
ForthNet@willett.UUCP (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (08/01/90)
Date: 07-30-90 (10:07) Number: 684 (Echo)
To: ANIL RODRIX Refer#: 680
From: DAVID ALBERT Read: NO
Subj: THANKS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Hi Anil,
Thanks for the information...I just bought the book HC11, a great
deal: $17 and it includes a 68HC11 assembler and other stuff on disk!.
Anyway, I have been building small voice based projects some for fun,
some for some handicapped folks. My computers thus far have been
running on 80C188 systems, but I am looking for a cheaper and easier
alternative for simple devices and for peripheral control (motor control
circuits, etc).
I will look into the F68 version as I do program in Forth
(sometimes), and I'll also check out the pricing on the single quantity
non-Forth version and post it. Again, thanks for the help.
-----
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Date: 07-30-90 (10:13) Number: 685 (Echo)
To: JODY WEBER Refer#: 681
From: DAVID ALBERT Read: NO
Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Hi Jody,
Well, I am not sure I can give you a direct answer. I have been
building some voice based low-power computers based on the 80C188 for
fun and for some handicapped folks. Previously, I had no interest in
embedded control applications. I am now looking for a good, very low
power MCU that I can take the time to learn well, and will suffice for
most control apps including motor control, alarm applications, etc. I
suspect for high powered processing, I will still use the C188 or maybe
the 80376 (I am giving that a try now). Since I know 808x assembler
rather well, it is just easiest.
My requirements are that it be in-expensive enough to embed as many
and as often as needed, and also that it be VERY low power (the lower
the better). Naturally, it must also have a decent array of on board
features and a reasonable instruction set. (I suppose I want what every
other designer wants).
If you have a personal favorite embedded MCU, or any suggestions, I
would appreciate hearing about them. Thanks for your help!
-----
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Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or willett!dwp@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.eduForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (08/14/90)
Date: 08-07-90 (16:24) Number: 689 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: NONE From: JODY WEBER Read: NO Subj: 68HC11? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE There are many highly integrated versions of the venerable Z80 processor. Some have enhanced commands, as well. For a cost vs. performance issue, I can highly recommend this architecture. (The Hitachi 64180 is a good example.) NET/Mail : Science Factor BBS - Science/Ed/Technical ->206-562-7083 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (08/15/90)
Date: 08-10-90 (00:14) Number: 691 To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 673 From: GREG FRESHWATER Read: NO Subj: 68HC11 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE David, I'm sorry it has taken so long to reply, but I have trouble getting onto this bbs, but to answer your queries: 1) how much RAM? The Amount depends on the application but it uses most of zero page, & needs about 256 bytes above & beyond that! The KERNEL is 3K $F400 -> $FFFF The Development rom is currently just over 8K Assembled to anywhere you like on an 8K boundry So you would need a 16K EPROM 2) HARDWARE NEEDED? I have currently got it set up as 32K RAM $000 -> $7FFF, and 16K EPROM @ $C000 -> $FFFF I have also used other Configurations allowing to compile into ram @ $C000 - $EFFF so as I can ROM the code 3) Mass storage? It does not as yet support any form of MASS STORAGE, But I am toying with the idea of setting up a RAMDISK setup using BANK SWITCHED ram which I am supporting in the code. 4) Cost??$$ I think that around $250 AUST. will be the going price. ?) I am currently developing HARDWARE which will support the forth to the fullest & am currently using a HACKED board which I designed about 12 months ago! Hope to be selling a development system, both S/Ware & H/Ware in the near future for about $600 AUS. roughly! If you are aquainted with the 65F12 you will have a little more of an idea of what this system is like! HOPE IT HELPS & CULATER :-) ..GregF.. --- * Via ProDoor 3.0 NET/Mail : Australian Connection Forth Board (Melbourne) 61 3 8091787 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (09/20/90)
Date: 09-17-90 (12:51) Number: 731 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DAVID ALBERT Read: (N/A) Subj: WANTED: 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE I just bought the Motorola book on the 68HC11, and I am looking forward to building a small test board. Unfortunately, none of my standard suppliers seem to carry the HC11...can anyone tell me where to get them (in small quantities) and how much they should cost? Thanks! ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: uunet!willett!dwp or dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (09/22/90)
Date: 09-18-90 (10:53) Number: 734 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 731 From: JACK BROWN Read: NO Subj: WANTED: 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE DA>I just bought the Motorola book on the 68HC11, and I am looking forward DA>to building a small test board. Unfortunately, none of my standard DA>suppliers seem to carry the HC11...can anyone tell me where to get them DA>(in small quantities) and how much they should cost? Thanks! New micros makes a nice little board with the F68HC11 ( Forth in Rom ) call them at 214-339-2204 and ask about the NMIX-0022 which is a complete system for $265US As a student taking a course on the 68HC11 I was able to buy the Motorola EVB board (68HC11) for $68.11 US... to this you can add the F68HC11 from New Micros which they list for $37.50. That gives you a system for just over $100! --- * QDeLuxe 1.01 #260s Are you a member of FIG? Why not join today! NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (10/06/90)
Date: 10-01-90 (17:30) Number: 751 (Echo) To: DAVID ALBERT Refer#: 731 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: 10-02-90 (18:22) Subj: WANTED: 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE How much are you willing to spend ? New Micro's F68hc11 chip goes for $ 37.50 single unit, with 8K ROm for Maxforth. For a plain 68hc11 I wonder if you could scrounge a free sample from Mot.? ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (10/06/90)
Jack - there's no need to
Date: 10-02-90 (18:22) Number: 753 (Echo)
To: ANIL RODRIX Refer#: 751
From: DAVID ALBERT Read: NO
Subj: MICRO-CONTROLLER PRICING Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Hi Anil,
Well, if all you ever wanted was a single 6811, I suppose 37.50 is a
pretty good price. I have seen New Micro's ads in C.C. Ink, and
considered it before. However, microcontrollers are usually used for
low-cost, low-power applications, and $37.50 per unit can really eat
into that...although it is not that high a price, it is enough that I
will have to think about it before designing one into a new project
I also have been completely unable to find the power consumption
information on the 68HC11...I can't find it in Motorola's data sheets,
or even in the 68HC11 reference manual. My major application requires
very low power (solar/battery), so I must find the Icc for this part
before I even think about using it. Any ideas?
Thanks for the help!
-----
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Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwpForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (10/06/90)
Date: 10-02-90 (10:12) Number: 755 (Echo) To: ANIL RODRIX Refer#: 752 From: JACK BROWN Read: NO Subj: WANTED: 68HC11 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE >Jack - there's no need to get the $ 256 board from New Micros; you can >get their target board, without rectifier and power supply, and if you >add the 7660 chip and mc14506 for RS-232 i think the board may be $90, >or if you ask them to add the rs232 it may be around 120. But you also do not get the Max-Forth User's Manual, the hardware manual, 8K of ram, the 68HC24 chip, and a host of other features! In the end you may not save very much especially if you are just starting out. It might make more sense to get the $90 NMIT-0021 after you have your first NMIX-022-PS. NET/Mail : British Columbia Forth Board - Burnaby BC - (604)434-5886 ----- This message came from GEnie via willett through a semi-automated process. Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us or uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (02/27/91)
Date: 02-23-91 (17:29) Number: 1279 of 1301 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: RALPH HEMPEL Read: (N/A) Subj: 68HC11 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Hi all. I have been monitoring this group for some time and agree that Gary Smith deserves all the praise heaped upon him. How do you find the time to generate all that mail??? I don't know if the following conforms to your posting policies, so yank or flame ONCE if it doesn't. :-) New Micros Inc. in Texas has a great deal on Single Board 68HC11 CPUs with FORTH in ROM. the 4x4" board with CPU and 32K RAM is only $67.00. A manual is probably not included and worth the money. Its a great little board and I have used it in a variety of projects including an InfraRed decoder for my HP 42S. The FORTH is 83 Standard and is OK. Call them at 214-339-2204 if interested. I mention this for all students out there who need cheap borads for lab projects. Cheers, Ralph PCRelay:CRS -> RelayNet (tm) 4.10a14 Canada Remote Systems * Toronto, Ontario <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (02/27/91)
Category 6, Topic 30 Message 59 Mon Feb 25, 1991 GARY-S at 06:17 EST Ralph - Thank you. I appreciate your 'atta-boy'. I agree with your assessment of NewMicros, also. One thing you didn't mention is Randy's (prop. Randy Dumse) outstanding support for his customers. If the product didn't recommend NMI, the support certainly should. Both are excellent. Gary ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (03/04/91)
Date: 02-25-91 (13:26) Number: 1331 of 1333 To: RALPH HEMPEL Refer#: 1279 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: 68HC11 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Hi - Ralph ; I use the MNI boards and have mentioned them here; some people feel that you need the $260 package to be able to start to use it. However if anyone wants to go the cheap route I and others I'm sure would be willing to give pointers and info for help. Also has been brought up that its not quite 83 standard, but the deviations dont bother me. PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm) 4.10 Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645 <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp
kube@cs.UAlberta.CA (Ron Kube) (03/05/91)
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) writes: > Date: 02-25-91 (13:26) Number: 1331 of 1333 > To: RALPH HEMPEL Refer#: 1279 > From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO > Subj: 68HC11 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE > Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) > Hi - Ralph ; I use the MNI boards and have mentioned them here; some > people feel that you need the $260 package to be able to start to use > it. However if anyone wants to go the cheap route I and others I'm sure > would be willing to give pointers and info for help. > Also has been brought up that its not quite 83 standard, but the > deviations dont bother me. > PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm) > 4.10 Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645 > <<<>>> >----- >This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author >using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions >the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). >Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp I have been shopping for a SBC Forth system and have received literature from Vesta, Saelig and New Micros. The Vesta sales literature was the best and the New Micros the worst, however, the New Micros product from what I have read will serve me best. What I am looking for is a SBC Forth system complete with Power Supply and RS232 with DB25 connector. My intention is to connect a generic PC with a terminal emulation package to the Forth SBC. My question is, will NMI's NMIX-0022 PS package do the trick? Thanks in advance. Ron
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (03/08/91)
Date: 03-04-91 (12:54) Number: 1405 of 1406 To: GARY SMITH Refer#: 1355 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: FORTH ENG./68HC11 NEW MIC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) To : Dennis Greisser ( sp?) - RE NMI's 68hc11 board - your defs have the right idea; if you get this message call me day at 800-245-3186 xt 14; there may be too many simple points to wade thru to post. I have used machine code quite a bit and have many routines to speed up operation. PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm) 4.10 Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645 <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp
swilliam@hpt01.even.ge.com (Steve Williams) (03/09/91)
(Posting due to news gateway to users.) (ANIL RODRIX) Can you give me some pointers on the cheapest board or circuit design for: 68hc11 (68HC811 preferrably) with 4-32k of cheap static ram, d/a connection (sound speed) This is for a possible project that will be mass produced and needs to be low power, cheap, and easy to prototype. I have also looked at using ram FIFO's for my application. I have not found any sample board designs for just adding ram and I don't have time to figure everything out yet. I will also use Forth or assembly. Thanks... sdw -- -- Stephen D. Williams SDW Systems (513) 439-4904 GE AEG (513) 552-5237 ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W Internet: swilliam@a101.even.ge.com sdwsys!sdw@valhalla.cs.wright.edu
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (03/30/91)
Date: 03-18-91 (12:40) Number: 1535 of 1557 To: GARY SMITH Refer#: 1516 From: ANIL RODRIX Read: NO Subj: FORTH ENG./68HC11 NEW MIC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) To : Bryan Newmann re 68hc11: I'm sure others will also reply to this; are you aware of New Micros ( 214-339-2204 ) and their 6811 products? There are some other tools available, what are you looking for ? Mosaic is another source for 6811 Forth boards, cost a bit more, for subroutine threaded which makes calls faster. PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm) 4.10 Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645 <<<>>> ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (06/16/91)
Category 6, Topic 30
Message 77 Sun Jun 16, 1991
D.RUFFER [Dennis] at 01:18 EDT
Re: Gordon_Hooton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Gordon Hooton)
> idea of cost and availability of compilers for the HC11
Forth, Inc. sells a version of its chipFORTH interactive target compiler for
the 68HC11 for >$3K and includes hardware. Call (213) 372-8493 for more
details.
{B-{)> DaR
-----
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Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwpForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (06/18/91)
Category 6, Topic 30
Message 78 Sun Jun 16, 1991
F.SERGEANT [Frank] at 23:18 CDT
Gordon Hooton asked about the 68HC11 and Forths for it.
Yes, the 'HC11's machine language is a superset of the 6801's _and_ of
the 6800's. So, I figure a figForth for the 6800 should work on the 'HC11,
of course there would be some work involved. Also, on GEnie and probably
other BBSs by now, there should be a several files by Jack Brown and myself
that have the source code for a Forth assembler for the 'HC11 that should run
either on a PC or on an 'HC11 (producing 'HC11 code in either case, of
course). Let us know what you get and what you do with it, please. I may be
near the verge of actually wiring up my 'HC11 chip and finding out just how
hard or easy it is to convert Pygmy to run on the 'HC11.
-- Frank
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Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwpForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (06/26/91)
Date: 06-19-91 (10:19) Number: 234 of 239 To: GARY SMITH Refer#: NONE From: GEORGE PERRY Read: NO Subj: F68HC11 FROM NEW MICROS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (58) Read Type: GENERAL (+) New Micros, Inc. 1601 Chalk Hill Road, Dallas TX 75212 214-339-2204. Computer Continuum offers a board (with memory, serial port, and lotsa' doc's and source-code) for $295 (ouch), or $220 (no doc's). 75 Southgate, Daly City CA 94015-1413 415-755-1978. --- ~ RNet 1.05U: MetroLink ~ The Continuum ~ (415) 755-1524 ~ (818) 441-2625 PCRelay:DCINFO -> #16 MetroLink (tm) International Network 4.10 DC Info Exchange MetroLink International Hub <<<>>> sn ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp
ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) (07/01/91)
Category 9, Topic 10 Message 83 Sun Jun 30, 1991 B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad] at 12:11 EDT Hmmm. As far as I know, the F68HC11 (a 68HC11 with Forth in ROM) is the creation of New Micros, and so they are likely to be the exclusive source. (I have limited knowledge of how such affairs are handled, but I believe that Motorola manufactures this part under contract to New Micros -- much like any custom MPU -- and thus Motorola themselves have no license to sell this part.) Your only other option is to buy a "vanilla" 68HC11 and put Forth in an external ROM. Last I heard (a few years ago), 68HC11s were selling for something like $11 to $14. - Brad Brad Rodriguez | brad%candice@maccs.uucp (God willing) B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie | brad%candice@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca "Shoes for industry!" | bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (archaic) ----- This message came from GEnie via willett. You *cannot* reply to the author using e-mail. Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.). Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us _or_ uunet!willett!dwp