genbrug@iesd.uucp (Dat hovedfag genbrug) (02/22/89)
Is ST-80 more than an advanced environment to make toys with? - Apparantly not.
I see the ST-80 system as a VERY POWERFULL environment for the development of
prototypes, but when it comes to development of commercial products running
OUTSIDE the ST-80 environment I find it problematic.
In "old" environments with languages like C, Pascal or Cobol I find the concept
of 'a program' very clear (it starts with a 'begin' and ends with a 'end'), but
in respect to ST-80 programs I find the concepts of 'program' very fuzzy (ST-80
programs are typically built up by many objects comming from different class-
hierachiess having methods that again uses objects from other classhierachies
and so on) because it is hard to distinguish what is THE program and what
is not.
MY QUESTION IS: Does there exist tools to transform programs in the ST-80
environment to executable programs that can run outside the ST-80 environment,
and that does not exist of more than the necessary parts of the classes from
the ST-80 system? e.g like 'Applications generators' in LISP (the discussion
above, about ST-80 programs contra "ordinary" programs causes me to think
that such a tool isn't a simple one).
Johnny Thomsen, genbrug@iesd.dk, {...}!mcvax!diku!iesd!genbrug
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genbrug@iesd.dk, {...}!mcvax!diku!iesd!genbruggeorg@unido.UUCP (Georg A. M. Heeg) (02/26/89)
In article <1383@iesd.uucp> genbrug@iesd.dk (Dat hovedfag genbrug) writes: > >Is ST-80 more than an advanced environment to make toys with? - Apparantly not. I am really happy to tell you, that your impression is wrong. Selling Smalltalk-80 and Smalltalk-80 applications for about 18 months I can see our customers making business by using Smalltalk-80. Certainly I also disagree with your opinion of a program: ... >In "old" environments with languages like C, Pascal or Cobol I find the concept >of 'a program' very clear (it starts with a 'begin' and ends with a 'end'), but ... Look at a CIM project and the task to control a factory, or look at a desktop system in an office or ....... where is the 'begin' and where is the 'end' ('begin' = founding, 'end' = bankruptcy ;-))? Please see a lot of applications that ARE systems, so the programmer is adviced to MODEL them as systems, NOT as programs. The major parts of our end user Smalltalk-80 customers choose the system to USE it as a system with all its fexibility. Look at the spreadsheet packing in The Analyst. Try to rebuild it in C, Pascal or Cobol. Then a customer wants to use complex numbers, or triggering of pie chart giving the new exchange rate Yen/Dollar found 20 seconds ago in Tokyo? >MY QUESTION IS: Does there exist tools to transform programs in the ST-80 >environment to executable programs that can run outside the ST-80 environment, >and that does not exist of more than the necessary parts of the classes from >the ST-80 system? e.g like 'Applications generators' in LISP (the discussion >above, about ST-80 programs contra "ordinary" programs causes me to think >that such a tool isn't a simple one). Certainly I know of examples where the idea of generating C programs out of a Smalltalk-80 system is very useful. Look into Jacques Daehler's PhD thesis (ETH Zuerich, Electrocal Engeneering). He speciefies graphically a network protocol in Petri Nets and simulates the network with selected animation to detect errors and dead locks. When he is done he generates a c program for every node in the network to run the specified protocol. Since early this year Jacques runs his own company to market his tool. Georg Heeg Smalltalk-80 Systems Baroper Str. 337 D-4600 Dortmund 50 (x49-231) 751326 georg@unido.{uucp,bitnet}