peskin@caip.rutgers.edu (R. L. Peskin) (10/27/90)
We are currently evaluating the new ParcPlace Systems Rel. 4 of Smalltalk. We are porting our scientific graphics package (SCENE) to this version. (Previous versions of SCENE for PPS Smalltalk were monochrome only; the color version was done in Tektronix Smalltalk. There is also a Smalltalk/V Mac version in progress.) While there are many features we like in Rel. 4 (color, native windows, etc.), there is no class Pen! ParcPlace tells us that they consider the Pen obsolete since their data indicated that it was not really used. I personally disagree. Pen was not just a toy to scribble with; it is a serious tool for experimental geometry, etc. when used in TurtleGraphics. I'm interested in others reaction to the loss of class Pen in Rel. 4. One point to be made is that the better books (Inside Smalltalk for example) discuss the Pen, and potential new Smalltalk users may be discouraged if it not really in the system. By the way our SCENE system needs Pen and we are implementing it, and we will make it available on the net. --dick peskin %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Richard L. Peskin CAIP Parallel Computing Lab CAIP Center CN - 1390 Rutgers University Piscataway, N. J. 08855-1390 net: peskin@caip.rutgers.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) (10/27/90)
From article <Oct.26.17.51.59.1990.12368@caip.rutgers.edu>, by peskin@caip.rutgers.edu (R. L. Peskin): > ParcPlace tells us that they consider the Pen obsolete since their data > indicated that it was not really used. I personally disagree. Pen was not just > a toy to scribble with; it is a serious tool for experimental geometry, etc. > when used in TurtleGraphics. I agree. I would like to know where those data came from. Did they really look at greater amounts of customers' code? What also strikes me as odd is the use of the word 'obsolete'. I haven't seen R4 as yet. Did they introduce anything new to take the place of Pens (e.g., provide similar functionality)? > One point to be made is that the better books (Inside > Smalltalk for example) discuss the Pen I don't think this is a coincidence; Pens (and turtle graphics) are great stuff for tutorials. Smalltalk is not that easy to learn, and I think removing Pens is a step backward in that respect. I think it would have been fitting if the class had been included as a file-in. After all, this way has been used in the past to keep useful, but not always necessary functionality (e.g., statistics) out of the basic image. Markus Stumptner mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at Technical University of Vienna vexpert!mst@uunet.uu.net Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
pieter@prls.UUCP (Pieter van der Meulen) (10/30/90)
peskin@caip.rutgers.edu (R. L. Peskin) writes: >ParcPlace tells us that they consider the Pen obsolete since their data >indicated that it was not really used. I personally disagree. Pen was not just >a toy to scribble with; it is a serious tool for experimental geometry, etc. Assuming your information is correct (I can hardly believe it), then I wonder what "data" they used. For one, our software (1.5MByte, 30Klines) uses (sub-)class Pen heavily. However, if their motivation to remove Pen is be that vector-graphics is platform-dependent (e.g. native window support for color-pen drawings), then I can "sort-of" understand it. Still, Pen as an example-Class should remain. Or, keep it as a fileIn for backward- compatibility.... wait, I already have said that many times and it seems to have the opposite effect :-( By the way, how is Digitalk treating you guys with respect to new releases and backward-compatibility of Smalltalk-V? -- --------------------------------------------- P.S. van der Meulen, MS 02 prls!pieter PRLS, Signetics div. of NAPC ----------- 811 E.Arques Avenue, Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3409