[comp.lang.smalltalk] Want To Write And Distribute A Smalltalk Program...

tima@agora.uucp (Tim Anderson) (12/08/90)

I was just muttering the other day that our 'main' program needs a text
editor so that you can edit configuration files, and edit gigantic CNC
programs if need be. I though 'hey, why don't I blow the dust off of my
copy of Smalltalk/V (that's VEE not FIVE!) and just slap together a coupla
cute messages in there TextEditor object!' This of course is what program-
ming is all about, eh? So now I'm stuck with a monstorous Smalltalk image
for a puny text editor. Oh well! How do I distribute it? I dunno, I geuss
I'll call up Digitalk and ask. I called them and talked to a sales guy
that told me I needed the 'run time image' program at $500 a year!! 
Yikes! I realize that there has to be a fee of some sort for a bindable
run time image, but $500??? He also stated that they were 're-thinking
their policy on the distribution of the run-time package'. I don't have
to pay Microsoft to distribute the program's that I write using their
(albiet lame) C compiler, DAMMIT! Granted there is considerably more
proprietary code floating around in a running smalltalk program than a running
C program's...

It's a good thing that Digitalk is 're-thinking' their distribution. Quite
honestly I flat out refuse to pay for the ability to allow other people to
use something I create. This is another reason why we don't use 'Phar Lapp'
either... Needless to say a text editor in smalltalk will not be distributed
with our program. Hence the question of this entire article, if for some
reason I write a program in Smalltalk, is there any way to distribute it
other than in source form that doesn't cost me a plug nickel? I mean lets
say I want to write the greatest (fill in the blank here) and give away copies
to everyone in the world. I geuss that I couldn't write it in Smalltalk, eh?

tima@agora.hf.intel.com

klimas@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (12/13/90)

> So now I'm stuck with a monstorous Smalltalk image
> for a puny text editor. 
 	There is a Digitalk cloner to remove unwanted stuff and various
	third party "pruners" also.  Some folks while fooling around
	with these pruners have managed to get a ST/V286 window with
	"Hello World" down to a 29Kb image!
>Oh well! How do I distribute it? I dunno, I geuss
> I'll call up Digitalk and ask. I called them and talked to a sales guy
> that told me I needed the 'run time image' program at $500 a year!!
	This is for unlimited copies on /V.  There are no fees associated
	with /V-PM and /Vwindows.  This is an extremely reasonable policy
	to commercial developers like us, considering what you are getting.  

> Yikes! I realize that there has to be a fee of some sort for a bindable
> run time image, but $500??? 
	Don't forget that the actual ST/V program itself can be bought for
	approximately $65, so that may make more sense if you only want to
	distribute one or two copies.  Compare that to the $500 for MS C
	that you'd have to pay!

> He also stated that they were 're-thinking
> their policy on the distribution of the run-time package'. I don't have
> to pay Microsoft to distribute the program's that I write using their
> (albiet lame) C compiler
	Then maybe you should use Microsoft C.  Serious developrs won't have a
	problem with paying $500/year for qualified support. Just consider
	the royalty as a way of insuring Digitalk has a vested interest in
	supplying bug fixes and upgrades for the tools you are building your
	product upon. Oh yes, please compare how long you wait on the phone
	to get a MS C question answered vs. a Digitalk ST/V question.

> DAMMIT! Granted there is considerably more
> proprietary code floating around in a running smalltalk program than a running
> C program's...
> 
> It's a good thing that Digitalk is 're-thinking' their distribution. Quite
> honestly I flat out refuse to pay for the ability to allow other people to
> use something I create. 
  	I'd rather share a little with someone else to make sure that they're
	around to fix bugs and provide enhancements.  This in the long run is
	a hell of a lot more sound business practise than betting your future
	on a garage shop that is unrealistic about it's needs for future
	support staff.

> This is another reason why we don't use 'Phar Lapp'
> either... Needless to say a text editor in smalltalk will not be distributed
> with our program. Hence the question of this entire article, if for some
> reason I write a program in Smalltalk, is there any way to distribute it
> other than in source form that doesn't cost me a plug nickel? I mean lets
> say I want to write the greatest (fill in the blank here) and give away copies
> to everyone in the world. I geuss that I couldn't write it in Smalltalk, eh?
	Others may already be doing the greatest (...) in Smalltalk and
	you might find that the market window train has already left the 
	station without you <GRIN>! 

MUHRTH@tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr) (12/13/90)

In article <1990Dec7.181509.6641@agora.uucp>, tima@agora.uucp (Tim Anderson)
says:
>with our program. Hence the question of this entire article, if for some
>reason I write a program in Smalltalk, is there any way to distribute it
>other than in source form that doesn't cost me a plug nickel? I mean lets
Smalltalk/V Windows will compile to non-royalty *.exe programs.

Paul.Regenhardt@p0.f500.n5000.z200.METRONET.ORG (Paul Regenhardt) (12/19/90)

If you wanted to write the greatest <fill in the blank here> you could
certainly do it and give it away to the entire world.  As a matter of
fact, if you send it to me I will certainly put it on the next 
distribution disk of the public domain Smalltalk code.  
 
The only problem with it is, the person recieving it must have their
own copy of Smalltalk....otherwise your code isn't of much use.  But
there is no reason in the world why you can't file out your changes
and give them to anyone.
 
BTW, we have a distribution agreement with Digitalk that is more like
$50.00 a copy.  Heck, I think that's steep considering you can get 
their program for $149.00.  My biggest problem with Digitalk is that
their program only runs on the PC.
 
                        Making Smalltalk in Denver,
                        Paul Regenhardt
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