lindahl@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Charlie Lindahl) (05/26/90)
I can think of several applications that are LISP based (usually LISP derivatives, as opposed to Common LISP): 1) FLEXIS, a SUN-based CASE tool, originated via the ENVOS environment on XEROX LISPMs. 2) AUTOCAD, using AUTOLISP (a derivative of XLISP). 3) CimStation, by SILMA, which is a $120K package on Silicon Graphics machines (at least), which does robotic simulation/layout/programming. It uses SIL, a SILMA-developed subset of LISP. All for now. These are REAL applications that use LISP... Charlie S. Lindahl Automation and Robotics Research Institute University of Texas at Arlington ARPA: lindahl@evax.utarl.edu Standard disclaimer: Ain't no opinion but my own. -- Charlie S. Lindahl Automation and Robotics Research Institute University of Texas at Arlington ARPA: lindahl@evax.utarl.edu
hugo@griggs.dartmouth.edu (Peter Su) (05/26/90)
Everyone is forgetting the best REAL LISP program... The Emacs editor was one of the eariliest real systems to be built in LISP. Pete hugo@sunapee.dartmouth.edu
gumby@Cygnus.COM (David Vinayak Wallace) (05/27/90)
Date: 26 May 90 16:04:28 GMT From: hugo@griggs.dartmouth.edu (Peter Su) Everyone is forgetting the best REAL LISP program... The Emacs editor was one of the eariliest real systems to be built in LISP. You mean Multics Emacs. If that counts, then MACSYMA is probably the earliest. Does Multics Emacs stil exist?
barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) (05/27/90)
In article <GUMBY.90May26153646@Cygnus.COM> gumby@Cygnus.COM (David Vinayak Wallace) writes: > From: hugo@griggs.dartmouth.edu (Peter Su) > The Emacs editor was one of the eariliest real systems to be built in LISP. >You mean Multics Emacs. If that counts, then MACSYMA is probably the >earliest. >Does Multics Emacs stil exist? Why wouldn't it? It will still exist as long as there are Multics systems to run it on. Probably at least half of all the Multics systems sold (I think the total was over 60) are still running. How about all the applications running on Lisp Machines? Symbolics and TI have sold thousands of them, so there must be a few "real applications" running on them. One I can think of offhand is that American Express is using an expert system running on Symbolics Lisp Machines to automate purchase authorization (I think it decides whether the current purchase is obviously consistent with your history, and if not it passes the decision on to a human). -- Barry Margolin, Thinking Machines Corp. barmar@think.com {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) (05/27/90)
In article <1990May25.221509.21274@evax.arl.utexas.edu> lindahl@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Charlie Lindahl) writes: >I can think of several applications that are LISP based (usually >LISP derivatives, as opposed to Common LISP): [ ... ] >2) AUTOCAD, using AUTOLISP (a derivative of XLISP). [ ... ] >All for now. These are REAL applications that use LISP... AUTOCAD's AUTOLISP interpreter is indeed a derivative of the XLISP interpreter written by David Betz. Both the AUTOLISP interpreter and the XLISP interpreter are written in C. I assume that all the rest of AUTOCAD is also written in C -- maybe with a few lines of Assamly Language thrown in for added efficiency. Therefore, AUTOCAD is not a LISP based application, although some customized systems use a few lines of LISP in order to provide "higher level" operations which are not built into AUTOCAD. >Charlie S. Lindahl >Automation and Robotics Research Institute >University of Texas at Arlington >ARPA: lindahl@evax.utarl.edu -- Robert Marti Phone: +41 1 254 72 60 Institut fur Informationssysteme ETH-Zentrum Internet: marti@inf.ethz.ch CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland UUCP: ...uunet!mcvax!ethz!marti
jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton) (05/27/90)
In article <36850@think.Think.COM> barmar@nugodot.think.com (Barry Margolin) writes: >One I can think of offhand is that American Express is using an expert >system running on Symbolics Lisp Machines to automate purchase >authorization (I think it decides whether the current purchase is obviously >consistent with your history, and if not it passes the decision on to a >human). It also improves the way information is presented to the human authorizer in a number of ways, including such details as displaying numbers with leading zeros supressed (which the older interface apparently didn't do).
gumby@Cygnus.COM (David Vinayak Wallace) (05/28/90)
Date: 27 May 90 16:43:47 GMT From: jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton) In article <36850@think.Think.COM> barmar@nugodot.think.com (Barry Margolin) writes: >One I can think of offhand is that American Express is using an expert >system running on Symbolics Lisp Machines to automate purchase >authorization.. It also improves the way information is presented to the human authorizer in a number of ways, including such details as displaying numbers with leading zeros supressed (which the older interface apparently didn't do). Ah finally, a useful feature of Lisp: its maahvelous pretty-printer! Seriously, reputedly the Amex system does speed some things up, but it has no space for hand-written exceptions (and there are always some which are hard to code in any current rule system). This via DBL; I haven't used the system myself (except as a customer). Not a lisp comment I guess, but useful to anyone who thinks "Oh, if only I had a computer doing this it would all be better!"
raja@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Raja Sooriamurthi) (05/28/90)
hugo@griggs.dartmouth.edu (Peter Su) writes: >Everyone is forgetting the best REAL LISP program... >The Emacs editor was one of the eariliest real systems to be built in LISP. and of course MACSYMA. Considered by many to be an acid test for any lisp system. I don't know of any of the other symbolic math packages (Maple, Reduce etc., Mathematica is in C), but I suspect some of them may be in Lisp. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raja Sooriamurthi Computer Science Department raja@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Indiana University (home) 812-334-2907 Bloomington --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raja Sooriamurthi Computer Science Department raja@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Indiana University
raja@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Raja Sooriamurthi) (05/28/90)
hugo@griggs.dartmouth.edu (Peter Su) writes: >Everyone is forgetting the best REAL LISP program... >The Emacs editor was one of the eariliest real systems to be built in LISP. and of course MACSYMA. Considered by many to be an acid test for any lisp system. I don't know of any of the other symbolic math packages (Maple, Reduce etc., Mathematica is in C), but I suspect some of them may be in Lisp.
rbk@aiai.uucp (Richard Kirby) (05/28/90)
I used to work on a "REAL LISP" application - a telecommunications Network
Manager using upto 13 Xerox 1186's. Three were servers, providing a secure
database, and the rest were workstations for managing the telecommunications
hardware. It was written (written, sorry I mean hacked :-) using Interlisp and
Loops.
Incidentally, IMHO I think that the Xerox Interlisp environment is still the
sexist that I have ever seen.
Richard.
A LISP Hacker whose mission in life is to
hack ... er ... LISP."
| Richard Kirby | ARPA: Richard.Kirby%uk.ac.ed@nfsnet-relay.ac.uk
| A.I.A.I. | JANET: Richard.Kirby@uk.ac.ed
| University of Edinburgh | UUCP: ...!ukc!ed.ac.uk!Richard.Kirby
| 80 South Bridge | VOICE: +010 031-225-4464 x213momma@is.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Stefan Momma) (05/28/90)
In article <2586@skye.ed.ac.uk> jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton) writes: > In article <36850@think.Think.COM> barmar@nugodot.think.com (Barry Margolin) writes: > >One I can think of offhand is that American Express is using an expert > >system running on Symbolics Lisp Machines to automate purchase > >authorization [...] > > It also improves the way information is presented to the human > authorizer in a number of ways, including such details as displaying > numbers with leading zeros supressed (which the older interface > apparently didn't do). > Does it really take a Lisp- or whatever -based expert system to do display numbers with leading zeros suppressed ? :-) -- Stefan Momma voicemail:+49-711-121-1431 (-3138) (secr.: -3125) Projekt Polygloss Internet: momma@informatik.uni-stuttgart.dbp.de IMS-CL/IfI-AIS Because-It's-There-NET: nbab1424@ds0rus54 University of Stuttgart ICBMnet : 48 46 36 N; 9 10 48 E; alt 245 m SnailNet/Sneakernet: Keplerstrasse 17 D-7000 Stuttgart 1; Fed. Rep. of Germany
RCAPENER@cc.utah.edu (05/29/90)
In article <45898@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>, raja@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Raja Sooriamurthi) writes: > hugo@griggs.dartmouth.edu (Peter Su) writes: > > and of course MACSYMA. Considered by many to be an acid test > for any lisp system. I don't know of any of the other symbolic math > packages (Maple, Reduce etc., Mathematica is in C), but I suspect some of > them may be in Lisp. > You are indeed correct. REDUCE was originally written in RLISP, an ALGOL-like version of LISP that was built on top of Standard LISP, a very minimal LISP sufficient for the purpose. Standard LISP was implemented at the University of Utah, and Anthony Hearns used it to write the first version of REDUCE. I have heard that there are implementations of it now in Common LISP, but haven't seen it. I believe Maple is written in C. Another product that nobody has mentioned is InterLeaf, the desktop publishing system. It is written in a combination of their own version of LISP mixed with C. bob@csulx.weber.edu (csulx was formerly wsccs)
tim@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw) (05/30/90)
In article <45898@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> raja@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Raja Sooriamurthi) writes: > and of course MACSYMA. Considered by many to be an acid test > for any lisp system. I don't know of any of the other symbolic math > packages (Maple, Reduce etc., Mathematica is in C), but I suspect some of > them may be in Lisp. Reduce at least is in Lisp, the version I used to use was written in Standard Lisp, and the Standard Lisp was built on top of Cambridge Lisp. If you count algebra systems as `real lisp' applications then there are a suite of systems derived from LAM (Lisp Algebraic Manipulation): Sheep (a grown up LAM...) is a system for doing algebraic manipulation in General relativity; Classi is a program built on Sheep which classifies space-times in GR, and STensor is a general Symbolic Tensor manipulation program built on Sheep. Sheep and Classi at least make many interesting calculations in GR possible. The first application of LAM (in the late 60s I think) was to calculate the curvature of the Bondi space-time. This had previously been done by hand by someone, and the calculation had taken I think 3 months. LAM did it in 7 minutes (I think?) on an Atlas, and it was discovered that the hand calculation contained errors! It's a while since I did any of this, so details are likely to be wrong. --tim Tim Bradshaw. Internet: tim%ed.cstr@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!cstr!tim JANET: tim@uk.ac.ed.cstr "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"