C03601DM%WUVMD.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU (Derek Morgan) (08/25/87)
I've been asked to do some C programming on an IBM PC-AT using MS C 4.0 with a great deal of data entry, and screen-based output. If anybody has had experience with any of the screen design packages for C and the PC, please tell me about your experiences/impressions. Yes, I'm too lazy to create the screens and windows using C. Besides, the end user would like to be able to design/alter the screens without my intervention. (I'd sort of like it that way too.) So far, he has mentioned PANEL by Roundhill Systems as "looking neat from the ads I've seen." Since he hasn't said "I want you to use PANEL", I'd rather look around some more. Thanks in advance, Derek Morgan Medical Computing Services Group Washington University in St. Louis BITNET: C03601DM@WUVMD V-MAIL: (314)-362-2584 USnail: Box 8019, 660 S. Euclid Ave., St. Louis, MO 63112
ebg@clsib21.UUCP (Ed Gordon) (08/26/87)
I've seen many systems, Software Bottling Company, Blaise Computing, Vermont Systems, etc. Most include source of subroutines and licensing information. Some focus on graphics, others on menus, determine which direction you want to go before you start, and I'd appreciate seeing like information on the net for my information also. --Ed Gordon Data Systems Associates 513A Ridgefield Circle Clinton MA 01510 P.S. Is there a gateway that I can get on locally, Worcester area preferably, but Boston possible? And where do I get net access instructions?
daveb@laidbak.UUCP (Dave Burton) (08/28/87)
Your question is not complete, or the answer you seek is quite comprehensive. Several points need to be addressed before you decide on (or specify) a screen management system. Some of the questions you need to identify are: - monitor type: MGA, CGA, EGA or any - text or graphics based - interactive or batch (more later) - memory model desired - ease of design/change of the application screens - screen based or program based screen generation There are other points to address, but these are the questions which will most dominate your decision. Because of these ambiguities, I will describe our environment and the options we considered. "We" defines a company I quit very recently and definitely NOT my net host. The system under development was mainly oriented towards user data entry. Our computing environment was: IBM-PC/XT's and IBM-PC/AT's, IBM CGA monitors all 100% "True Blue". Our compiler was Microsoft 4.0. All data entry was text mode, with a medium resolution graphics screen as the introduction. Data entry was VERY interactive (this means that data was to be checked/verified AS the operator typed, including file lookups, range checking, data format enforcement, field-per-field help, etc.). All programming was small model. Screens had to be relatively easy to design and modify (we fudged a little on this requirement). And screens were to be stored in the data segment -- we operated on the IBM notwork; data access is too slow for highly inter- active multi-screen operation. ***** ADMS ****** Our earlier systems were based on IBM's Advanced Display Management System (ADMS). ADMS was strictly text based, using only the first page of the IBM-PC CGA. It is now a defunct product, although I have heard rumors of ADMS II. Disadvantages: required a TSR (terminate-stay-resident) driver disk based screen files no source code batch screen validation (for the most part anyway - very primitive) Advantages: IBM (our company thought so anyway) handled normal, shifted, control and alt function keys relatively easy screen updates w/no impact on program code ***** Blaise C-View ****** FLAME-FLAME-FLAME-FLAME DO NOT USE THIS SEVERLY BRAIN-DAMAGED PRODUCT! The company makes claims that, while *barely* true, are very misleading. If anybody wants, I could probably drag this one out a long ways. Disadvantages: converted Pascal product - not even a good port at that! wasteful of disk space horrible screen editor S-L-O-W, especially over a network cheap data validation routines Advantages: has source code (excellent style, but data structures are Pascalian) relatively easy screen updates w/little impact on program code ***** Vitamin C ***** This product has lots going for it. It follows C philosophy extremely well, is very well documented, has excellent functionality (very similar to DBase screen stuff) and has a decent screen editor available - separately. This could be a good choice, it is definitely a candidate. Advantages: WINDOWING capability data entry routines for most every purpose data validation routines for most every purpose, easy extensible screens built by program code - you do the work can handle text and graphics screens good keyboard handling expertly designed internally source code available Disadvantages: screens built by program code - you do the work memory pig - small model programs will be difficult ***** C Spot Run ***** I did not use this product, but did look at its documentation and run some sample programs. I think it is shareware, about $50 WITH source code. The product LOOKS well rounded and the demo programs were efficient. You should look for this one on some of the PC BBS systems. At $50, you can't go wrong! Advantages: WINDOWING capability source code available can handle text and graphics screens sound capability good keyboard handling screens built by program code - you do the work Disadvantages: screens built by program code - you do the work not backed by an IBM We reviewed several other packages as well, but I don't remember much about them. After we finished specifying the functionality of our system and the desired level of user control, we "rolled our own". Admittedly, this is no minor task, but none of the products we looked at could meet our requirements. We probably would have used Vitamin C had we not been limited to the small model. I probably would have used C Spot Run -- it is very similar to the screen manager I developed (no back-patting here :-)). Another good source for information is Computer Language magazine. Not long ago, June, July or August issues, CL ran a comparison of several systems. Doctor Dobb's Journal is another good source, but their last coverage is further back. One last thing. You might seriously consider using a DBMS product to base your system on, then write some C code to do the difficult things. The better DBMS products (filePro, Unify, Informix) have excellent facilities to get most of the work done - especially the data entry/validation. -- --------------------"Well, it looked good when I wrote it"--------------------- Verbal: Dave Burton Net: ihnp4!laidbak!daveb V-MAIL: (312) 505-9100 x325 USSnail: 1901 N. Naper Blvd. #include <disclaimer.h> Naperville, IL 60540
C03601DM%WUVMD.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU (09/02/87)
Many thanks to Dave Burton and Ed Gordon. I will be compiling a list of
information received. As for more specifics, here goes:
Monitor: Any. (There's a mix of PC's, from the PC-1 to the most recent AT,
all with different monitors.)
Text Based.
Interactive. (CRITICAL)
Memory model: Probably large; no network restictions, although disk-based
screen will be too slow.
Screen based screen generation. (Instead of having to code it myself...)
Decent documentation a plus, with examples of use for data entry, and output
from a C program to a designated location on the screen.
Oh, the user went ahead and ordered PANEL. For creating data entry screens
it seems OK, but I have no clue (remember, I'm just a C novice) as to how to
send output from a C program to the screens created using it. Help from any
PANEL (or PANEL PLUS) users would be appreciated.
I still have the option of selecting a different I/O package. Will try to
find back issues of CL.
Thanks, and thanks in advance,
Derek Morgan (What am I doing in this language? Speed!!!)